NEWWEST.NET INTERVIEW WITH CABELA'S VEEP
Cabela’s Reacts to Land Sales Debate
By Bill Schneider, 12-03-07
If you've been tuning into NewWest.Net lately, you know about the storm of controversy swirling around Cabela's Trophy Properties, a land brokering division of the leading retailer of hunting, fishing and camping gear that's opening a store in Billings next summer. My last two columns (here and here) have addressed this issue and more than 200 comments have been logged in by readers supporting or criticizing Cabela's involvement in the real estate biz.
To date, Cabela's has maintained a media silence on the controversy raging on
Callahan grew up hunting and fishing in Montana and now he's one of the five senior managers reporting to the CEO at Cabela's and manages government relations for the company. He also serves as chair of the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation.
"So, who would you rather have selling the land, us or them?" -- Mike Callahan, Cabela's
"No, we aren't getting out of the real estate business," Callahan said firmly. "We're more than half-pregnant with this, and we think it's a good business for us."
Then he said, just as firmly, that some things would change going forward.
"We want to be a good influence on what's going on," Callahan insisted. "Hopefully, we can get in the position of being the white hat, not the black hat. It's part of Cabela's ethic to do the right things for conservation and our customers."
Callahan and Arterburn admitted that they may have underestimated the situation in Montana and could have been better in communicating their concerns and conservation ethic.
"From now on, you'll see a different flavor on our website and in our trophy properties catalog," Callahan assured. "We discourage subdivision, and in the future you're likely to see some new policies in place with our affiliated brokers, and we don't expect this situation to happen again."
By "this situation," he was referring to the Weaver Ranch, a large property in central Montana under block management (the state-sponsored public access program) that sold through Cabela's Trophy Properties and caused the MWF to take on the retailing giant. The New York buyer announced he would be subdividing, dropping block management, and make access public land inholdings (state and federal) difficult if not impossible.
"We've already had discussions with the brokers on this," he said, hinting that it might be going out in writing soon.
I told Callahan I didn't think Cabela's good record in conservation is in question. The issue was that sportsman didn't really want one of their own doing land sales in Montana furthering the privatization of the wildlife resource--and now, since Cabela's has already stepped in it, they wanted some real responses, not generalities.
And that's precisely what he did, giving me two excellent and concrete examples of what Cabela's can do to make the company's critics happy and make sure such controversy doesn't flare up again.
First, let's all be clear on one point. Cabela's is already the 900-pound gorilla of amenity-based property sales, and brokers all over the country will consider cutting off a finger to get one of these license deals. That gives Cabela's a lot of power over its army of real estate agents--and Callahan said they were going to use it.
Their affiliated brokers aren't in it for one land transaction, he points out. They have a long-term business to run. Now, according to Callahan, brokers might lose their licenses if they broker any more deals like the Weaver Ranch--and not just in Montana. Basically, Callahan explained that Cabela's now expects brokers to refuse to sell to somebody who will subdivide, close down access programs, and violate the principles of Cabela's conservation ethic.
Second, Callahan said that Cabela's will no longer allow the listing of any property currently under state-sponsored access programs like block management unless the seller agrees to make the continuance of that public access program "a condition of the sale."
Callahan is a friendly, soft-spoken type of guy, but I said to myself that I wouldn't want to be the next broker who did a deal he didn't like. I have no doubt that he'd pull out of a license agreement in a flash if one of his brokers violated the company's new directive and conservation ethic in the future.
This is powerful stuff, folks. I doubt these brokers will risk their license with any single deal and will instead wait for a "conservation buyer."
"So," Callahan asked, after detailing things due to change, "who would you rather have selling the land, us or them?"
He wasn't asking me. He was addressing his question to all the hunters and anglers who doubt the company's ethics. By "them," he refers to the many, many thousands of real estate agents (3,800 just in Montana) who do not have a Cabela's Trophy Property license.
Bill Orsello, MWF board member who was in the meeting, agrees. "I think Cabela's is chagrined about what happened."
In an interview with NewWest.Net after the big meeting, Orsello elaborated: "We're as optimistic as we can be with any publicly held corporation. They don't want to diminish their brand. I detected a sense of remorse over this whole deal. It bothers them to be in this position.
"They look at this as a big miscue," Orsello said, "and they're interested in making amends, but only amends that fit within their business plan. They want to expand this opportunity and be the major player in amenity-based real estate sales in Montana."
Callahan confirmed this to me. His company sees a lot of potential in land sales and has no interest in passing it up, noting that in addition to its customers, he's also responsible to stockholders. He added, though, that it irks him when people think Cabela's became a new company when it went public, noting the company has the same management team it had before being listed on the New York Stock Exchange.
Craig Sharpe, MWF executive director, confirmed Orsello's impressions. "I was encouraged and pleased with the discussion. It was definitely forward progress."
Sharpe said his group presented Cabela's with some general proposals on what they could do to get back to even in Montana and the next step will be for Cabela's to respond. Then, Sharpe notes, his board will decide what to do at the next meeting in mid-December.
Which means this is hardly the end of this story.
Cabela's is, for example, talking to MWF and the FWP about a major deal to promote public access for anglers and hunters in Montana. I pushed for details, but Callahan would only hint that it could be big and predicted we'd hear about it in two or three months--and like it. Stay tuned.
Footnote: The same day this article was posted, I noticed that Cabela's had indeed changed the emphasis of its trophy properties website. Now, instead of a pitch to buy recreational property, the first thing you see is a long and fairly hard hitting conservation message promoting public access and denoucing rural subdivision. Click here to see for yourself.
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To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.
The Cabela's 2x4 of persuasion seems to be knotted with phrases like: "believe's in and supports" "strongly urge" "does not condone" "help ensure" "encourage"
Sounds to me as effective as something akin to a UN resolution.
As you can probably tell by now, I'm still on the fence as to whether Cabela's are truly sitting up and listening to our complaints, with a real concern for the future of public hunting/fishing access in Montana, or if they are merely throwing us a bone, or if they even have to, as I alluded to earlier regarding the vast majority of real estate agents not affiliated with Cabela's and with no concern whether a large ranch that is currently under block management is bought and kept in block management, subdivided, plowed under for strip malls and outlet stores, or completely nuked, as long as the commission is a big fat one.....
I have rambled on enough, I will be waiting anxiously for the next two or three months to hear the details of the major deal to promote hunting and fishing access here in Montana, however I still can't decide if I will be waiting anxiously for my next Cabela's catalog to peruse through and rack up more credit card debt, or to burn it, box the ashes and send it back to Cabela's with a seething note claiming that I will never again place an order with them, let alone make the pilgrimage to Billings........
2) This page outlines in 5 paragraphs the CTP program philosophy (unchanged as yet). http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/inthefield/trophy_properties/home/ctp_info.jsp?ctpPage=ctpinfo
Note paragraphs 3 & 5. All Cabela's does is license the name to existing brokers. AND properties may be co-listed with a non-cabela's licensed broker. UNLESS the things that Mike Callahan stated are in the license agreement they are unenforcable. Any existing agreements would be "grandfathered".
3) In addition to a co-broker, another way to get around this would be for the buyer to agree to not do anything for some time period, say 1 or 2 years. By then Cabela's and the broker are long gone and forgotten.
4) If you look at other large retailers, Wal-Mart or Home Depot for instance, there has been lots of controversy about them but people keep on shopping there. The same will apply to the Billings store.
5) Cabela's is doing this to make money. Callahan's job is essentiallly sales. he has done a "hard sell" with MWF & FWP to get them to buy his new-found concern. But to say that either Cabela's and/or the brokers will turn down millions in commissions is naive. It will be a cause for some creativity when these issues come up during a sale.
First, private land owners have a strong predisposition to protecting "their" land and like most people, prefer to keep it for themselves. Yes, there are a few exceptions, but the key word is exceptions.
Second, people that buy land for "business" purposes do so to make money and most will do it any way they can. They are the last to turn down a oil or gas well when compensation is offered. They dont do EISs or hold hearings that might lead to fair and honest and scientifically sound conservation practices on their land.
third, unless a legal document is in place (a contract) private land owners can, and do, readily change their mind about the direction they make take their land in. Private land management is a lot more volatile than public land management.
fourth, there is more to "for the good of the people and the environment" than what is good for hunting and hunters.
Cabela promoting land for conservation is essentially another corporate fraud, kind of like logging to produce wildlife habitat and oil and gas roading to provide access for the public. These are distortions and manipulation, but they do work on some people. Just not on me, and thankfully, not on some Americans or Canadians.
By the way, today (4 December 07) there is a listing on Cabelas properties that includes this : NOTE *Subdivision potential.
Cabelas knows, as so many corporations do, that the hunting community is unlikely to turn on its own, even as it cuts off it's own fingers. The confusion amongst hunters seems to be that they think that Cabelas is one of them. Sorry Ladies and Gents. Big Mistake.
To be a member of the Cabelas group all you have to do is pay a fee for a certain area and then pay homage to the catalog mogul with each transaction. Cabelas has retained brokers that other wise could not make it in the real estate game, they provided a marketing tool in exchange for dollars. I would also say that other real estate firms that sell property in Montana that could be considered specialists do have a concern for what happens to the property. Their concern is personally motivated, not because they got some bad press. They live here, the Cabelas live in Nebraska. Sell farmland in Nebraska.
They could refuse to work with a broker but all that would do is put them out of the real estate business, which may be a good thing. Would you feel good about buying a house through Wal-mart?
The point that everyone is missing here is that there is such a thing as private land ownership and the right that fall under that. The seller can sell to whomever he wants to and the broker cannot dictate who he sells it to. The brokers actions are governed by a listing agreement that says he will do everything he can to get the seller what he wants and more often than not the sellers priorities are money. The broker is fulfilling this fiduciary responsibillity to the seller by getting him the most money.
I can tell you that I wont sell my truck to a transplant from California, because they are inconsiderate drivers and I would be adding to your stress driving home at night. However, I dont care who I sell it to, he who is willing to do the best deal wins. Its simple!
Land ownership is one of the greatest things in our country. You can legally own your own piece of it and as long as you can afford it, it is your little or big piece whatever the case might be of the world.
I dont have to let you picnic in my backyard just because I have a nice barbeque.
I do however agree, Cabelas needs to either selling sporting goods or real estate. They are two very different animals, theya re good at gear, stick to it!
I believe his email address is:
The entitlement, "gimme" mentality of the posters here...demanding " a higher level of selectivity in the properties that they will allow to be listed" or "another corporate fraud, kind of like logging to produce wildlife habitat," never mind demands to "buy some property that can then be a) given to FWP as a WMA; b) they can retain, but would be permanently put under a conservation easement."
In short, "buy us free stuff!"
I guess browbeating businesses and "threatening" them with boycotts and approbium is a better deal than, say, forming the MWF Hunting Land Association and buying the ground in question fee simple.
Dudes, ever heard of buying Cabela's stock? It is a public company. Then you can fight it out with the other shareholders and stakeholders over what the company should do. That should be interesting.
Finally, Brian, I know you didn't intend it in the way I read this, but your statement "fourth, there is more to 'for the good of the people and the environment' than what is good for hunting and hunters" is something I would suggest that MWF think a bit more about.
Entitlement gimme mentality my butt! Do you even have a cncept of what HAS been going on with purchase and NON-regulation of property being purchased that HAD been block management? Cabela's has been buying/selling or their land agents for exceedingly wealthly people. Private farms and ranches that have been in families for multiple generations have been bought simply because someone waived a crap load of money at them.
Fiscally it is good business to say something to the effect of "continue a business that may or may not make money from year to year and possibly go deeper into debt OR take the 19,500,000.oo the nice man is offering me fo my land"
Here lies the rub... the land that once was block managment is now privately held once again, but this time the new owner says "no trespassing". Meanwhile he is growing Tecomate (Cabela's sells this crap that is illegal to feed and also to hunt over by the way) or some such product on "plots"....THEN he opens it to guides and outfitters who then take wealthy people for a "hunt" on the new owners property.
An estimated 58% of the poperty sales have been in "prime" hunting land with the remainder of land sales having been in "prime" upland game or waterfowl land. These purchasers have been taking the once "open" land and turning them into "private reserves" for business and private pleasure.
I have spoken to FWP reps and they acknowledge that this is going on but they are virtually powerless to stop it due to the OUT OF STATE money that is behind it. It was explained to me this way. FWP cites and or arrests someone for the unlawful feeding of game or the unlawful use of an attractant to feed and to lure game for an unlawful hunt. The out of state "hunter" hires a high dollar attorney and fights the citation/arrest. The FWP spends hundreds of man hours investigating and prosecuting the case and hundreds of thoudands of dollars investigating and prosecuting the case as well. It is a dollars thing. The companies like Cabela's know this is going on.
Back to the entitlement gimme mentality issue. Are you seriously telling us that if we are concerned with game management, lawful hunting and the growing loss of block management land that we are acting entitled? Please. Entitlement is in essence expecting the something that has been to never change and that one will have the whatever for time and memorial. Land ownership will change, that is a fact. Land ownership/stewardship should ALWAYS stay as close to the same as possible.FWP has limited resources...by fighting large corporations buying up land that the little guy one used to feed his family and femcing that land off and posting no trespassing signs while allowing rich people only to hunt is simply wrong.
He seems to deplore such corrupting practices in politics but has a roll of barbed wire stuck in his saddle sitting cleft over many of us expressing objections to the privatization and commercialization of the sovereign's animals for the monied few who vote early and vote often with their wallets. Enablers (pimps?) like Cabela's always claim benign involvement for putting together willing buyers with willing sellers.
Cabela's Trophy Partners seem t oahve conveniently forgotten that fact. This is NOT a land of Land Owners and Serfs.
While we as the sporting public may own the animals through tags and duck stamps and Pittman Robertson (thank God there's not a PETA stamp), and therefore can control licensure for hunting them, we don't own the private ground.
Hunting on someone else's ground is a privilege, this is exactly the same reasoning that Craig uses to say grazing is a PRIVILEGE, not a right, on leased BLM, USFS and state ground.
Why is hunting a right, why is public access a right, and why is everything else a privilege to be arbitrarily zapped? Such thinking is nuts: "My RIGHTS Rule! Everyone Else's rights are subject to MY interpretation."
I think we'd all be a lot better off supporting each others' rights to farm, hunt, graze, ride, minerals -- responsibly, of course.
So Craig, don't say I'm inconsistent.
The corruption inherent in political finance is due to the funny ways people cloak their funding. In fact, just this AM there is a Washington Post story about how 501c4s are becoming adjunct to 501c3s because they can spend more money while still shielding their donors from scrutiny.
So the 501c3 gets the donation, right? Undisclosed and with a tax deduction. Then it turns around and throws the money at its C4 operation. And since the 501c4 is "nonprofit" it pays no taxes anyway. What a Deal!
It's political money laundering, all legal, all anonymous, and all wrong.
Full disclosure in real time with no limits is the only way to sunshine the political funding streams. If politicians are bought, and many are, don't you want to know who owns them? I for dang sure do.
I agree that hunting on someone elses land IS a privilege, however, leased land is NOT privately owned land. All access rules and laws apply. This is again not a rights vs privilege issue where leased land is in issue. The law is very clear.
I guess the clause is subject to interpretation. The Whitefish Pilot had this discussion: http://www.whitefishpilot.com/articles/2004/10/06/news/news03.txt
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The difference between the "right to hunt" and the "opportunity to harvest" was monumental to many involved. Particularly to Fish, Wildlife and Park's legal counsel, who weighed in on the measure during the legislative sessions.
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Conservation
Resident prerequisite for all licenses. Includes the state lands license (for hunting, fishing and trapping). Residents 12-14 years of age and 62 or older need only a conservation license to fish and to hunt migratory birds and upland game birds, excluding turkey. Also allows a resident who is a Legion of Valor member, regardless of age, to fish.
State Lands Recreation
Required for recreational use on state school trust lands. The State Lands Recreation License is included in the Montana Conservation License specifically for the purpose of hunting, fishing, and/or trapping (HFT). All other recreational use on state school trust lands requires the State Lands Recreation License. Youth 12-17 and 60+ pay half price ($5). Families, up to 5 members living in the same household, pay $20.
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I go on state lands to fish outside of the hunting season. I take the FWP at its word that I am not in violation for fishing outside of the hunting season.
Thank you Cabela's. Your efforts to satiate your greed are pouring gasoline on this fire.