BIG NOTHING
Worry About Polygamy, Not TV
By Tracy Medley, 4-10-06
While much of Utah is busy getting its panties in a wad over HBO’s new polygamy-drama, Big Love and how it’s supposedly giving Utah a bad name, the real problem of polygamy remains. Why are so many Utahns harping about a fictional television show depicting a polygamous marriage between consenting adults while their real-life tax dollars are being used to support polygamous compounds known for rampant physical, emotional and sexual abuse?
While the idea of sharing my husband with any woman (let alone Chloë Sevigny) makes my flesh crawl, it just makes sense to me that consenting adults should be allowed to enter into any marital arrangement they wish, be it a man to another man; a woman to another woman or having multiple partners. That said, when sex and plural marriage are forced upon underage girls by creepy, old men claiming Godly authority, I’ve got to put my foot down.
Before the first episode of Big Love even aired several of Utah’s Mormons began a letter writing campaign asking HBO to cancel the series because they felt that it misrepresented both their religion and their state. Members of the LDS church are usually quick to point out that polygamy was officially outlawed by the church in 1890 and is no longer an acceptable practice of members of their faith. But why are they so adamant about making this distinction? Especially when polygamy is part of the church and state’s unique history and was only banned when Utah’s bid for statehood was at risk.
I suppose I understand because I was raised Mormon and the topic of polygamy has always made me uncomfortable. Growing up in south Florida, I had to give the above, “No, Mormons don’t do that anymore” speech more times than I can remember, but never had an answer for myself when faced with the idea that after my parent’s civil divorce my father could re-marry another woman in the temple, while my mother could not. But, these are not questions that most Mormons want to ask, at least not out loud.
Not talking about polygamy and acting as if it isn’t a part of our history as both a religion and a state is precisely what compels the rest of the world to think we have something to hide. And we do. Polygamy is Utah’s dirty little non-secret.
It’s easier to say, “It’s not us” than it is to actually deal with the fallout of our Mormon heritage, to actually deal with the thought of child-brides and lost boys. When polygamy became illegal, it was driven underground by those not willing to follow the mainstream LDS church. Polygamy would continue in secret and in many cases it is that secrecy which paved the way for a culture of abuse, incest and rape to thrive.
While mainstream Utah plugs its ears and hums The Fundamentalist Mormon church (FLDS) continues to become more insular and more dangerous. They are also maintaining a substantial financial drain on the state, with most of their wives claming welfare for themselves and their children. But let’s not talk about it, because we might have to answer some difficult questions of ourselves and our faith.
I find it truly indefensible that these folks found the time to write letters to the Tribune and to HBO about a television show, but have apparently been too busy to spend some of their righteous energy on writing to their congresspeople and senators about the very real problem giving our state a bad name.
Like this story? Get more! Sign up for our free newsletters.
Comments
Add your comment below
http://museum_of_polygamy.tripod.com/
You are the guys and gals with partial opposing views.....reminded me:
That Rhodney Reck was the white guy that come up with the concept of a POLYGAMY-TV-CABLE-STATION....that implies Big Love Sitcom(s) like.
SETTING THE STUDIO STAGES
....The museum's gift shop and bookstore would include actors impersonating famous polygamists and other thespians doing re-enactments of polygamist scenes. Additionally, the museum could include a polygamy-themed library, research institute, stage theater, social club, dance club, movie theater, cable television station.....
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,480033252,00.html?textfield=Rhodney+Reck
So, I the debater (with All Rights Reserved) come with a new concept plan:
1. New polygamy sitcom(s) for 2010!
2. New Polygamy sitcom(s) based on the 1800's
3. New Polygamy Sitcom(s) based on the 1950's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's
That will pacify and exploit the religous-minded audience(s).
It is time to exploit and make money with polygamy-theme(s)!
Continuation from previous comment:
May be or May be NOT related to [HBO] BIGLOVE, [1890's LDS-TITANIC-POLYGAMY],
Promoter Wants Polygamy Museum in Downtown Salt Lake City
Available at:
http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_097210711.html
First, as far as I understand, a woman may remarry in the temple.
Second, why do you imply that because people oppose a mischaracterization of a religion, they cannot also work to help those who are suffering? Are you helping those people?
Three, why do you say that the reason why the LDS Church abandoned polygamy is because they wanted to become a state? Do you have some evidence or declaration from the Church that states that?
To Whom It May Concern: and the EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF REGARDING THE MANIFESTO! All this can be read in the Mormon scripture Doctrine and Covenants.
Utah was a state and they were breaking the law with the practice of polygamy, thus the Manifesto!
Also you might want to read in the Doctrine and Covenants; Section 132 by Revelation from God, to Joseph Smith the Prophet/Founder of the [LDS] Mormon Church, that polygamy was to be practiced or you will be damned...vs. 6
You may contact us at P O BOX 93, Nauvoo,IL 62354 or visit our website: http://www,nauvoochristian.org
Thank you for the reference to the LDS scripture that talks about their decision to discontinue polygamy. However, if you read the entire official declaration, I think it offers a more complete picture of the situation. (http://scriptures.lds.org/od/1)
If you would like to know more about the LDS church from its source, you can refer to http://www.mormon.org. For information about polygamy in the church specifically, you can refer to this page: http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/0,9777,1601-1-114-1,00.html.
Both CULTS...the "LDS" Mormon Church and the "RLDS" now called the Community of Christ both have their Visitor Centers in this little town of less than 1100 people. We get between 200,000-300,000 tourists each year and it is growing. We are a there to present the other side of the story of Mormonism. Please visit our website: http://www.nauvoochristian.org
Do you personally profit from your operations there in Nauvoo? Do you take a salary or use ANY of the funds you receive for ANY personal expenses? Please answer the question honestly.
http://www.kued.org/productions/utahnow/
To answer Jeremy's questions:
1. Woman cannot remarry in the temple unless they receive a "temple divorce," where they must go through a long and sometimes painful petition process with church leadership. This is true in both cases of death and divorce.
2. I am in no way saying that these folks who wrote letters to HBO aren't "concerned about suffering." But, it does seem that they might be more preoccupied with what the world thinks about them, (which, most of the world thinks anyway, regardless of Big Love)... than they are about the problem that got Utah that reputation in the first place. What I hope is that people will realize there is a real problem here in Utah and refocus some of their righteous energy into either solving the problem or donating time and money to those who help the women and children attempting to leave it.
3. Of course the LDS church never "declared" that they outlawed polygamy to gain statehood, but it was one of the conditions presented to Utah by the U.S. government because polygamy was illegal and there was no motion to discontinue the practice before that. So, you do the math.
Thanks for reading.
Tracy
I also believe this exposes some of the latent hypocrisy in the "Christian" community. Polygamy is as much or more so a part of "Christian" theology as it is the Mormon's. The Bible is rife with examples of God ENDORSING and even giving the law that says polygamy is OK. Never at any time during the ministry of the Lord did HE once condemn polygamy or abolish its practice. The practice among Christians ended with the epistles from the apostles, who we rightly assume were in direct communication with the Lord - the Lord giveth, and He taketh away. The argument many postulate is that polygamy was for a distant time and a distant people, but that is a shallow argument. The consistent application of that argument would mean that I could dismiss the entire NT because it was for a distant time and a distant people. The problem with modern Christianity is that it seeks to be coddled by the world and find acceptance in secular society. Heaven forbid that there should be a stance taken, or a law given, or a theology that is at odds with secular trends (I'm speaking very pointedly to the gay rights movement and the feminists).
So how does this relate to the current discussion? Many (not all) "Christians" are outright hypocrites - they are all too quick to throw stones at the Mormons because of polygamy, all the while proclaiming undeviating loyalty to the Bible which very clearly proves that the great Lawgiver of the universe has a polygamy law in His library - as evidenced by the laws He gave to His ancient prophets.
My suggestion to all "Christians" is that they truly explore the God they worship, by reading the entire Bible, not just the parts that give them the warm fuzzies. Read about polygamy. Read about the Canaanite genocide that God ordered the Israelites to carry out. Read about Elijah destroying all the priests of Baal (what would the equivalent of that look like in our society?). How could a merciful God possibly condone that type of behavior? If you believe in a perfect and unchanging God, then it means He is still the same today as He was then. Go figure out your theology - then let us know how you reconcile it with the stones you hold in your hands.
The really interesting part was thinking about how someone could open up a center and pick apart all of Christianity the same way you choose to pick apart Mormons. I'm sure there were people just like you back the days of the apostles who were telling people all the salacious details of Paul when he was Saul. I wonder if your christian faith would be devastated if you learned all the juicy details about Moses life. We get a nice tidy version thousands of years later.
Every argument you have against Mormons - and boy do you have quite a few - could be used against Christianity as a whole. Maybe you should turn that funhouse mirror you're holding up on all of Christianity. And while you're at it, if you want to be a real follower of Christ, don't waste your days kvetching about others. Put down your ax you keep grinding and pick up a Bible to find out what Christ DID. Go out and feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and shelter the homeless.
And as for the topic of this post the polygamous sects are terrible for just what the autor here said - lost boys and child brides. As for the act of polygamy, if you subscribe to the precepts in the bible, God has enacted it before and may well do so again.
And to Jeremy, a woman can marry again in the temple for time but not for eternity unless her previous sealing is anulled. She'd have to petition the church headquarters for that. A man, however, can be sealed for time and eternity to multiple women.
I wasn't trying to stir up anything, I was just trying to clarify that it is possible, even though it does require a process.
I just hope that people understand that the LDS church teaches that women are so very important and precious and the crown of creation. I know that members of any church sometimes do not act like it and that is very unfortunate. Personally I have dealt with some like this and people very close to me have suffered a great deal as a result. However, I do know that what they did is not what Jesus Christ taught and that they will be accountable for their choices.
Another link might clarify the church's teachings on the family: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1995.htm/ensign november 1995.htm/the family a proclamation to the world.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0
I think the act of polygamy should be legal, and the abuses that occur on the compounds prosecuted.
I have no problem with polygamy when it involves consenting adults.
Al
I believe I've seen your type trolling on anti-LDS websites with the same line "I'm not LDS..." and then proceed to defend the cult.
Question-Doesn't your church teach that telling lies is a sin??
Not LDS - Whatever!
As for polygamy itself, like I said in the article, I believe that consenting adults should be able to marry each other in any arrangement they wish...and I don't think that is an unrealistic goal. Family Law would need an overhaul, but I think bringing polygamy out in the open might go a long way to deflect some of the more negative stereotypes surrounding the practice.
Christianity does not resonate with me as something I would follow though I find it fascinating as a concept which is why I study it as well as other spiritual paths. One thing that Christianity has against it is people like Ms. Hulse who spend their days knocking people who don't believe exactly like they do. She is not alone. There are thousands if not millions of so-called Christians like her. They spend more time griping about how others are practicing Christianity than actually doing what the Bible purports the actions of a follower of Christ should be doing. It's not limited to lds bashing either.
So mr cult, no I'm not lds or a follower of Christ other than he showed a pretty good example of how to treat other people. I don't subscribe to the idea of him as deity personally. I don't have a problem that other people do. Faith is a personal thing. I DO have a problem with hypocrites - which is exactly what anyone is who claims to be a follower of Christ then dedicates their life to bashing others who are trying to be followers themselves.
As for trolling, I don't troll anti anything websites. What a waste of time. I prefer religioustolerance.org. I came across this article through google news. I read several religious articles daily that appear in google news. You might try such a thing and enlighten yourself.
The answer to your questions...NO!
Did I detect just a little "Ad-Hominem" in your statement to me to be honest? LOL
We are non-profit. Just like the [LDS] Mormon Visitors Center and the [RLDS] Community of Christian Visitors Center in Nauvoo.
visit our site: http://www.nauvoochristian.org
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who being saved it is the power of God."
(1 Corinthians 1:18)
You have never been into the Nauvoo Christian Visitor in Nauvoo since my husband Rocky and I became the directors on Oct 24th of this year. Plus, you didn't state just when you were in Nauvoo, nor why.... (hmmmmm?
Also, I invite you to Nauvoo come into the Christian Visitors Center anytime and find "ONE" thing, that is in error, just one!
You could move to Nauvoo and you will find nothing, but the rest of the story inside the Nauvoo Christian Visitors Center. By that statement, I mean you will not get just the "air brushed" story, one gets about Mormonism and its founder Jospeh Smith, when they visit the other two centers LDS and RLDS in Beautiful Nauvoo.
My husband was born and raised in Mormonism! He is a 5th geneneration on his father's side and 4th on his mother's side.
I do believe that he and I through his getting out of Mormonism and our study of the history of Mormonism in depth, gives us just a little more insight than you.
Visit: http://www.nauvoochristian.org
also http://www.mrm.org
"Have I therefore become you enemy because I tell you the truth?"
(Galatians 4:16)
hmmm by B/S detector is sounding the alarm! Your posting states that you are not LDS and then in a subsequent posting you state that you have studied the church. If this were the case you would know that the Cult of Mormonism is simply that...a cult. One that is based on lies and falsehoods, sexism and pulls from the teachings of the Freemasons...do some more research...or better still, come clean and admit you are in fact a mormon shill
Thanks
But back to my earlier statement - there's nothing about one man and multiple wives or one woman with multiple husbands that is so dangerous. We're just not able to handle it because of our social mores.
It's amusing that so many Utahns reacted to this show. Does it even take place in Utah? I heard that it has nothing to do with Mormons. Doesn't this letter-writing campaign serve to defeat itself in that regard?
And one more thing - this letter-writing thing is totally valueless. Very few people outside of Utah give a shit about Utah or Mormons. Sadly, Utah is usually a punchline to the rest of the world. Sometimes it seems deservedly so (like the county that seceded from the UN), but I've met wonderful people in Utah and had some good experiences there. Utahns in my experience were by and large insular people who didn't like outsiders (perhaps this is a larger issue - maybe it's that way with the West in general - I can't say). This near-xenophobia leads to negative portrayals of Utah around the world. Sadly, a goofball letter-writing campaign like this only heightens that perception.
Did you know that Joseph Smith married women who were already married? I learned that from an article on fairlds.org
I then started to read the Doctrine and Covenants (an addition to the perfect Book of Mormon). Within 15 minutes, I found all of the inconsistencies below - all were "messages from God" to Joseph Smith:
1. Joe said polygamy should not be practiced (Book of Mormon said that)
2. He then said polygamy can be practiced with the wife's approval (D&C;)
3. He THEN said if the wife does not approve "she shall be destroyed". (Emma did NOT approve) (D&C;)
4. AND a man can have as many wives as he wants as long as they belong to no other. (D&C;)
Sooo... if God spoke through Joseph Smith, he just couldn't make up his mind, could he? Joe told all those girls who had husbands that God told him to take them for wives. Hello?? I thought he said they couldn't belong to another!
Furthermore, Joseph said a prophet's son should take over for him in the church when he dies. (D&C;)
His son did NOT take over for him. Brigham Young did. Prophets are supposed to be RIGHT!
My Mormon friends could not explain these inconsistencies. I guess they didn't want to talk about them.
However, despite the fact that Jesus said it should be one man to one woman, and Joseph Smith was doing flip-flops, they still believe in polygamy. Sure it's not practiced (now), but they believe in it. They just love to talk about Abraham and David's wives as justification!! By the way, please show me in the Bible where God "commanded" they take more than one wife. Just because something was allowed, doesn't mean it was commanded. For example, divorce was tolerated for man's hard hearts, but certainly not favorable or commanded. Jesus explains all this in the New Testament, but Mormons don't care about that, because it's "mistranslated". Right!!! Where? What was left out? Please tell me. Mormons can't answer that either.
Ms. Hulse: If you're running the same anti center in Nauvoo I've been to before, it is irrelevent that you are new to running it. Anyone who runs a center devoted to griping about what someone else believes has a personal vendetta and is truly, sadly beyond understanding.
Katie: may your god bless ya for your desire for truth. Now that you've found the inconsistencies in mormonism, please visit the old and new testaments of the bible and compile a list of errata there. You'll find plenty of material if you choose to read objectively. You might notice right off in the old testament that prophets are chastised for doing dumbass things. Only one person is presented as perfect in the bible. And people wonder why I'm not in any Christian sect. Apply your standards across the board, people. Consistently evaulate.
Jimi, as for the mormons I know, I think those that try to distance themselves from polygamy do so as a defensive mechanism. In other words, a response to a history of persection and desire to be seen as "normal".
Tracy, what I can't figure out is why flds leader Warren Jeffs hasn't been arrested yet. I wonder if the police even searched the new Texas compound. Maybe they don't want another Waco on their hands.
I just want to add a reflection on the previous comments. In my mind, a church is more than seeming inconsistencies. If you are to judge a faith, please do it with your heart and mind. What is the faith truly about? What are the weightier matters that occupy its time and thought and attention? How can you know for a certainty if it is true? And if you know it is true, can that change based on the latest commentary or dissection?
If you are going to study about the LDS faith, for example, please consider going to http://www.mormon.org or http://www.lds.org and study from the source, as you might from the Quran or the Torah.
As to your statement that the "Nauvoo Christian Visitors Center" is anti-Mormon!
No, it is NOT! We are pro-Christian.
Then my question to you is are the LDS-Mormon and RLDS Centers, there in Nauvoo, anti-Christian because they stand against all other churches based on the teaching of their founder Joseph Smith?
"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?"
Galatians 4:16
http://www.nauvoochristian.org
Just wanted to let you know that we do use the sources you gave for studying Mormonism. I also watch BYU Television programs for information. So thank you, for giving me this opportunity to let others in this thread know that we don't use anti-Mormon sources on our television program Truth Outreach, nor in our Seminars.
"Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test."
Brigham Young, 1873
http://www.nauvoochristian.org
By initiating a letter writing campaign to indicate that the mormon's feel mocked on the issue of Polygamy means they recognize that polygamy is real in their community.
This is better explained outside of the context of mormonism because that topic is too hot.
Example:
Gay marriage. Gay marriage doesn't exist legally in this country and there is potentially going to be a ban on gay marriage / there is in many states. NOW, let's think back about 50 years. The very subject of gay marriage would have been an unimaginable concept. It never would have been in the news, never would have made it to congress to even discuss. SO, the fact of it being in the public discourse means that it is recognized as feasible, possible and (unfortunately) something that could be inevitable. If the cultural consciousness didn't include a belief that gay marriage is inevitable, then why would you need to enact a law to stop it? The countering action of trying to enact a law to stop it gives the initial premise creedence and strengthens the case for gay marriage.
It is the same with polygamy. no matter what official stance any organization takes on policy issues surrounding polygamy, it is real, it is tacitly condoned, it is publicly supported in Utah in many ways, it is seen (there) as inevitable. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be necessary to combat it in the public or political spheres.
Where I wrote:
" possible and (unfortunately) something that could be inevitable"
I didn't mean unfortunately, I meant fortunately. That was a complete type-o.
The Federal government sought to change Mormons so that their culture would align closely to the exisiting American culture (an amusing idea given today's multi-cultural view of the world). That is why one significant Utah history book is entitled: "The Americanization of Utah."
I've enjoyed following the discussion, it is a complex issue and needs some discussion both within and without the LDS Church. I actually just wanted to add my 2 cents to the issue of men and women being able to seal in the temple after divorce. I am LDS, and recently my wifes parents were divorced civily. Her father remarried (civily) to another LDS woman, and they hoped to be sealed in the temple. He found that he too (as informed by the first presidency) would have to recieve a annulment of his sealing or at the very least expressed writing permission from his former wife, directed to the 1st presidency. So it would appear that, while it is true that annulment of a previous sealing is not an absolute requirement for re-marrying(time and eternity), it is not as simple as some would have you believe. By the way, she has refused every appeal from him (every of the last 6 years), and the church has refused him permission to re-marry in the temple every time. This is my 2 cents. Thanks for all the perspectives.
IZ. T
I have a family and friends who are "Secretive Secular Catholic Bigamists"
The September 9th 1899 issue of the Salt Lake Tribune, contains a report of Heber J. Grant pleading guilty and paying the fine for breaking the laws of the land by cohabitation with more than one wife. This is 9 years after the 1st Manifesto and 3 years after Statehood. Cohabitation was against Utah law and plural marriages were forever forbidden and irrevocable as per the Utah constitution, as a requirement for Utah to become a state. According to a genealogical listing of the decedents of Joseph Fielding Smith, 5 of his wives had children after 1890, for a total of 14 children born after 1890 to him. Most list the place of birth as Salt Lake City Utah.
-------
A Chronology of Federal Legislation on Polygamy
http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/chron.htm
This information has been searcable on the web since January 4th 1998.
Hellen try reading something other than scritpure.
Get the facts right!
Perry
Winston Blackmore and other polygamists have been investigated by our police for having sex with underage girls who are ordered into Bountiful's harems whether the girls like the idea or not. They're told it's God's will and if they refuse, they will burn for ever in Hell. If there is any justice, these men with be charged with rape and do time in jail.
Those who have asked where is the proof of incest, rape, etc. should know that women who have fled Bountiful (Debbie Palmer and Jane Blackmore, Winston's only legal wife who divorced him, plus other women) have already given police details regarding these crimes. Hopefully, their evidence will be part of the charges. A decision regarding charges will be made either at the end of June or the beginning of July.
I have no idea where someone got that I believe polygamy ended with the Mormon Church manifesto in 1890 which says " To Whom it May Concern" the very prophet of the Mormon Church who issued those words had several wives and took more after 1890, so for you to make statement about my understanding of the issue is just plain foolish. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints still has Section 132 in their D&C;which is Joseph Smith saying says "Thus saith the Lord, you will...or be damnned..." There is Polygamy throughout the Mormon Church today, unground. If they don't believe it will be and is practiced, then why don't they remove it? The manifesto says it was ended because of the law of the land, so that must mean it will be forced on all Mormon women when the law of the land is changed? FYI there is Polygamy in my husbands family, so I know from where I speak.