Column: Making it in Missoula
Men and the Lack-of-Communication Theory
By Little Sis, 9-26-06
Paddler Dude A: Little Sis’ ex
Paddler Dude B: A’s roommate
Daredevil: Big Sis’ ex (see Befriending the Ex: Sensible or Stupid?)
“You owe me a beer,” I tell my sister as I return from Operation Idiot. We’re in Charlie B’s, and Big Sis and I are engaged in an experiment/bet about the extent to which men communicate, or whether this particular one just isn’t that bright. Across the bar, Paddler Dude A and Paddler Dude B are now in the midst of taking shots and guffawing loudly with their gang of friends, apparently oblivious to their status as the target of our bet.
Let me back up before this gets too confusing; there’s a key at the top to keep you oriented. A few months ago, Big Sis and I were celebrating a friend’s birthday at the Old Post, and -- as it inevitably happens there -- a couple of our ex-love interests were sitting at the next table with another group. Namely, Paddler Dude A and Daredevil.
Paddler Dude B, who is A’s roommate and best friend, approached our table and struck up a conversation. Paddler B and a friend of mine at the table reminisced about their days in high school together (because obviously there weren’t enough confusing connections already), and they ended up dating after that night. Meanwhile, Big Sis and I worried about our ex-love interests having dinner together, possibly talking about us, and generally ensuring an awkward social experience. It turns out there was nothing to worry about, because men apparently don’t talk to each other. And here’s the evidence (you might need to diagram this):
Paddler Dude B asked Daredevil, my sister’s ex, who I was and if I was single, broadcasting his intention to hit on me to the table that included his roommate and best friend, Paddler Dude A (my ex-love interest). A apparently said nothing to deter him. Reread that, and we’ll move on.
(To give some credit to the male gender and pin more of the blame on Paddler Dude B’s worrying memory loss, consider this: he failed to remember he’d met me at least eight times in the company of his roommate and the fact that he soundly kicked my backside in foosball half of those times. And possibly backing up the Idiot Theory as opposed to the Lack-of-Communication Theory, he immediately switched to my friend when she showed the slightest interest.)
The nuance (read: sarcasm) to glean here is that B didn’t ask A who I was, meaning A and B never even had a conversation about our relationship. No communication. If the same situation arose at a table full of women, we would already know every detail about the man in question, including his history with our friend, and we probably would have alerted each other that an ex-love interest had entered the room. We would proceed to analyze his outfit, who he was with, and speculate accordingly. None of us would hit on him.
I’m definitely not claiming that the female approach is any better (although maybe it excludes the possibility of coming off as “not so bright”, as in Paddler Dude B’s case). I’m not sure where the balance is, but I wonder how different the early stages of dating would be if we could figure it out.
Hence, the bet at Charlie B’s on Saturday night. In an attempt to discover whether we were being too hard on the male gender with the Lack-of-Communication Theory, or if Paddler Dude B just really wasn’t very smart, I approached to say hello. Not a glimmer of recognition, although A said hi pretty quickly. This wasn’t a very scientific experiment, so the issue is still up in the air.
But I’ve had other experiences to back up the L.O.C. Theory. For instance, I ran into the roommate of (yet another) ex-love interest who had no idea that I hadn’t been dating his best friend for at least a month at that point. My best friend knows exactly who I’ve dated, am dating (when I am), and who I have aspirations to date (when I’m single). Unfortunately, all of those men probably know each other. But at least they don’t talk about it.
Actually, this weekend revealed how big of a population Missoula really has, making all the random connections that much more incredible. I think the entire town came out for the Missoula Skate Park opening, from the kid with the big hair who navigated the rail surprisingly well in his surprisingly tight outfit, to the woman wearing an inexplicable 80’s outfit complete with side ponytail and purple polka dots, to Monte the Grizzly. We love our cultural events. Luckily, there were too many people at the Skate Park to run into any of my ex-love interests’ best friends.
Question of the week:
How much do men really talk to each other about their personal lives? Do women, then, over-communicate?
Quote of the week:
“Mine would like to climb and also be a great handyman so he could finish my basement; yours would love to travel so you could go save the world together; and your sister’s would have all the connections, so that between them they would know everyone in Western Montana.”
-My best friend, on the set of single, attractive triplets that we’re going to find any day now.
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I typically expect anything I say about relationships to stop with that person but allow some slippage to girlfriends, because you cant totally stop it. If that slippage to girlfriends slips to other people or my girlfriend and is really private stuff, I'll probably be even more guarded about talking to that friend in the future. I just dont like gossip and dont get much out of hearing it either with a few exceptions.
Seems like a lot of women share very liberally. I guess if they want to they will. On their own feelings that's fine, about their guy to their closest friends thats understandable. But When they talk about their guy with their 18th best friend, or hairdresser, or random coworker that seems too casual to me.
Sell your interest stronger if you do and regardless get over that he didnt follow thru and chase you. Sounds like he found a date. He doesnt owe really owe you anything. Also sounds like being cool to a woman can get to them. Being eager and available seems to get shot down a lot so I can't blame the guy for not pursuing every gal or showing as much interest as she wants or expects. If women can be selective, so can men if they feel like it.
Many corporate boardrooms, libertarian organizations
Roger- I didn't write that I was interested in Paddler B, and hopefully a more dubious tone toward him came out in the column. I'm much more interested in his obliviousness as a discussion piece.
Julie- they're no longer dating, and I think she's a little dubious as well. . .
Bill Hall- Obviously you've never met me.
One of the things about sharing is that it can be all one sided. I have seen some of my friends unfairly smeared among women who were sharing because the men were unable to share their side of things to the women. Relationships can be messy but very rarely is one person the sole bad actor. We all contribute to some of the problems. That's what happens when you try to blend two people's desires, dreams, aspirations, fears, flaws, etc. Nobody is perfect.
Since sharing is something that is done on such a personal level, I wonder if it is scrutinized for fairness? Or, is it a shortcut way to lable someone and tag them with a reputation ("don't date that guy because he did/said/feels [fill in the blank]")?
I also agree with Taylor the real learning about relationships comes when you know both sides. Sometimes you hear it from both when you are friends with both but a lot of the times you just hear one and it is good to remember that is one sided and not take it as the full story.
I think guys tend to talk less in part because they can't avoid realizing they had shortcomings, made mistakes because they certainly do quite often. They may not want to talk it but I think most guys realize it is true and dont really want to share that image of failure with other guys. Why would they?
I wonder how often women confront their shortcomings, mistakes in relationships with friends. It is mostly about getting sympathy for not being treated great or is it also about doing better? Giving advice about doing better is a delicate thing for any friends, some get it, some are helped by it, but mostly I think we end up on our own, repeating mistakes until we learn the lesson ourselves. More, franker talk could help but there is a risk and unless a friend commits to receiving advice and holding you harmless (and you believe them) most are somewhat reluctant to say as much as they might.
To break new ground it might be interesting if any of the guys in these stories were given the opportunity and were willing to share their perspective too but the odds of that might not be high and cover could be blown.
I don't think this is vapid but look forward to variety and maybe more talk about solving problems, paradoxes not just laying them out there.
I feel, from a mans point of view, that is is indeed enough said.
I went to college here in the 70's and was not the charming confident player I would have liked to be. Even so the opportunities were frequent enough to learn something about interpersonal relationships between men and women. Now Im an old guy, passionatly in love with my wife and happy with my life experience as it stands so far. I love sitting in Missoula downtown establishment watching young men and women stumbling through the learning process. Im happy to watch and feel no need for further participation. Been there.
Rick - thanks for letting us know there's a happy ending somewhere. I'm glad that you're happy, in love, and done with your stumbling.
Sometimes you stumble into chat about relationships about third parties who aren't present and that can be the easiest time for folks to say what they really think and not be afraid to disagree. I guess you can learn some that way. Talking about other relationships with your girlfriend or wife is tricky though. What you say can be viewed as much about you as it is about the other relationship. Got to me careful to not say more you really mean and mean to say.