Larry Craig Update
Craig Arrest Tape Released, Officer Accuses Senator of Lying
By Jill Kuraitis, 8-30-07
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Minnesota police released the audio tape Thursday of the post-arrest interview with Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig.
Craig was arrested June 11 by a plainclothes police officer investigating sexual activity in a men’s bathroom in the Minneapolis airport and in August, Craig pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct.
- Click here to listen to the full interview which policy say is a conversation between Craig and Investigative Sgt. Dave Karsnia.
- Click here to read the transcript from Idaho NBC affiliate KTVB Channel 7, the first to post the audio from the arrest.
Craig has denied all claims of impropriety in the bathroom that day, saying at a press conference Wednesday that is guilty plea was a mistake after months of speculation about his sexuality Craig said, “While I was not involved in any inappropriate conduct at the Minneapolis airport or anywhere else, I chose to plead guilty to a lesser charge in the hope of making it go away.”
The transcript of the interview, is almost verbatim, with simultaneous speech making a few words difficult to make out.
Dave Karsnia, the arresting officer, and Craig recount the events leading to Craig’s arrest, with considerable disagreement along the way. After Krasnia showed Sen. Craig his identification and Craig apparently knew he would be arrested, there was this exchange, which includes Craig’s assertion that he needed to make his connecting flight:
DK: But there’s the, there there’s two ways, yes. You can, you can, ah, you can go to court. You can plead guilty.
LC: Yep.
DK: There’ll be a fine. You won’t have to explain anything. (inaudible) I know.
LC: Right.
DK: And you’ll pay a fine, you be (inaudible), done. Or if you want to plead not guilty, ah, and I, I can’t make these decisions for you.
LC: No, no. Just tell me where I am (inaudible) I need to make this flight.
A bit later, Craig is read his Miranda rights, and says he understands. Then:
DK: Do you wish to talk to us at this time?
LC I do
DK Okay Urn, I just wanna start off with a your side of the story, okay. So, a
LC: So I go into the bathroom here as I normally do, I’m a commuter too here.
DK: Okay.
LC: I sit down, urn, to go to the bathroom and ah, you said our feet bumped. I believe they did, ah, because I reached down and scooted over and urn, the next thing I knew, under the bathroom divider comes a card that says Police. Now, urn, (sigh) that’s about as far as I can take it, I don’t know of anything else. Ah, your foot came toward mine, mine came towards yours, was that natural? I don’t know. Did we bump? Yes. I think we did. You said so. I don’t disagree with that.
DK: Okay. I don’t want to get into a pissing match here.
LC: We’re not going to.
DK: Good. Urn,
Craig seems to begin fighting back at this point in the conversation. He uses the word “entrapment,” which a few legal analysts have said could be a key part of Craig’s challenge of his plea. But the same analysts point out the chances of the plea being overturned are “slim to none.”
LC: I don’t, ah, I am not gay, I don’t do these kinds of things and…
DK: It doesn’t matter, I don’t care about sexual preference or anything like that. Here’s your stuff back sir. Urn, I don’t care about sexual preference.
LC: I know you don’t. You’re out to enforce the law.
DK: Right.
LC: But you shouldn’t be out to entrap people either.
DK: This isn’t entrapment.
LC: All right.
After some disagreement over what Craig did with his hand, Karsnia said:
DK: Well, you’re not being truthful with me, I’m kinda disappointed in you Senator. I’m real disappointed in you right now. Okay. I’m not, just so you know, just like everybody, 1,1,1, treat with dignity, I try to pull them away from the situation.
The conversation then turned to whether or not Craig had stood outside Karsnia’s stall, peering through the crack:
DK: How long do you think you stood outside the stalls?
LC: Oh a minute or two at the most.
DK: Okay. And when you went in the stalls, then what?
LC: Sat down.
DK: Okay. Did you do anything with your feet?
LC: Positioned them, I don’t know. I don’t know at the time. I’m a fairly wide guy.
DK: I understand.
LC: I had to spread my legs.
DK: Okay.
LC: When I lower my pants so they won’t slide.
DK: Okay.
LC: Did I slide them too close to yours? Did I, I looked down once, your foot was close to mine.
DK Yes.
LC Did we bump? Ah, you said so, I don’t recall that, but apparently we were close.
DK Yeah, well your foot did touch mine, on my side of the stall.
LC: All right.
Discussion about where Craig’s hands were, or were not, continued. A disagreement over whether Craig presented his right or his left hand included discussion over the placement of his wedding ring. Then:
DK: Okay. You, you travel through here frequently correct?
LC I do
DK Um,
LC Almost weekly.
DK: Have you been successful in these bathrooms here before?
LC: I go to that bathroom regularly
DK I mean for any type of other activities.
LC: No. Absolutely not. I don’t seek activity in bathrooms.
DK: It’s embarrassing.
LC: Well it’s embarrassing for both.. I’m not gonna fight you.
DK: I know you’re not going to fight me. But that’s not the point. I would respect you and I still
respect you. I don’t disrespect you but I’m disrespected right now and I’m not tying to act like I have all kinds of power or anything, but you’re sitting here lying to a police officer.
More discussion about hand placement followed, then this:
DK: I just, I just, I guess, I guess I’m gonna say I’m just disappointed in you sir. I’m just really am. I expect this from the guy that we get out of the hood. I mean, people vote for you.
LC: Yes, they do. (inaudible)
DK: unbelievable, unbelievable.
LC: I’m a respectable person and I don’t do these kinds of…
A Craig spokesman said today there would be no announcement today on Craig’s next move. Craig has been saying for months that he would announce his re-election intentions in September.
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Comments
The officer had no right to say he was disapointed in the senator for what he said. The heck with that - just tell you story and shut up and go to court at a later date. This arguing back and forth between them at the site of the arrest is ridiculous - I didn't know they did this garbage.
I'm not convinced that Craig did not do it - more than likely he is bullshiting, but I just don't care for the busting methods.
This wasn't entrapment, not by far. Larry is a lawyer, he pled guilty, he IS guilty. Even a bad lawyer can fight an entrapment case. Explain why Larry's palm was up? Larry never disputes that fact. Explain why Larry was using his left hand to "pick up some paper" on the right side of the stall? Explain why Larry's pants were still up? Explain why Larry was way out of his way from his incoming and departure gate and frequenting a well known anonymous-gay sex restroom?
That Larry took such a terrible risk in an attempt to have anonymous sex in a public bathroom, with all the stuff he had hanging over him, tells me that whether he knows it or not he is coming to some kind of crisis in his personal life. I'm sure he hates himself for working for the passage of that hateful legislation. It reminds me of Clinton, knowing the world is watching, knowing that he has many enemies that would love to see him go down in something like this but doing it anyway. It is self destructive, a type of suicide. Good - it means he has a conscience. He can just quit politics and make a packet of money being an attorney and find someone to love and keep house, like he's been repressing that he's wanted to do for years! :) No bad ending for him, really.
This cop was doing his job, responding to a complaint of criminal activity. Allowing such activity to continue would be a criminal act in and of itself. He had to respond and in doing so, Larry Craig finally got caught doing something he's probably been doing since before 1982 and his page scandal.
Which is not to say that looking for sex in an airport bathroom isn't tragic, desperate, or in very poor taste. However, poor taste should not make a crime, and putting police officer's there to find it is a waste or resources.
Either way, though, Larry would have lost his seat.
By the way, in general I hate cops as well though there are a few good ones. For every one good cop it seems there are 100 others who are just as hypocritical as any politician. In this case, however, my money is on the cop telling the accurate version of events.
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