Pro-wolf Langhorse who voted against a right to hunt bill in Idaho is 'backing' 'hunters'???

That's Langhorst, with a T. You also misrepresent my voting record. I voted for the Right to Hunt Amendment in 2006 in the Senate and in 2004 in the house. It's really not difficult to do the homework yourself, but I did it for you. Here are the links to the only two floor votes on Right to Hunt:

http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/2006/SJR106.html

http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/2004/HJR011.html

The bill which began the process of putting wolf management back in the hands of Idahoans was HB 294 follow the link below. You'll see that Rep. Stephenson and Rep. Langhorst were the floor sponsors.
http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/2003/H0294.html

For anyone who is willing to look me in the eye and present their views or questions, or at least possessing the courage to identify themselves with a name and phone number, I am always available to discuss issues.
My email address is: and my statehouse phone number is: 208-332-1352

And for anyone who prefers to hide behind anonymity and throw rocks, maybe you could check your facts first?

Sen. David Langhorst

From what I've read, Langhorst opposed and prevented the right to hunt ammendment from passing by offering an ineffective alternative to it at the last second; assured that a primary function of ISCAC is to support F&G;political agendas; and was paid as a director of a group said to be the largest wolf advocacy group in the world, yet the 'sportsmen's' caucus expressed beleif at a meeting Dec. 14 that Langhorst vowed to support their efforts to end wolf protection in Idaho. There are also rumors of allignment with anti-hunting groups such as HSUS. These things don't go together. I won't publish a phone number online, but am sure I will be looking Langhorst in the eye on these issues at the upcoming meetings on the elk issue.

Thank you for showing yourself Mrs. Miller.
I realize that as an elk farmer you disagree with my view on shooter bull, canned hunting operations. I also realize that since you quote G. Dovel verbatim I probably won't convince you about what happened on the Senate floor regarding Right to Hunt, or what my positions are.
You seem to be saying that the issue is me; I say the issue is canned hunts. Hopefully, people will listen to both sides, and they can make up their own minds objectively. Again, I just request that you do some fact checking before representing my voting record or positions. If you have any questions about my positions, just ask.
Respectfully,
Sen. David Langhorst

Thank you for showing yourself Mrs. Miller. Because you are a game farmer, I realize you disagree with me. I'm guessing that you want to make the argument about me as a way of distracting from game farms, CWD, hunting ethics, etc. Either that or you are simply very angry, which I can understand. I won't waste any time on my record as a hunter and advocate for hunting. I'm secure about it, and people aren't that interested in me anyway, darnit!
I have talked with more than a few game farmers. Most seem to be reasonable people with a viewpoint different than mine, but able to make their arguments in a logical, civil way. They realize that this is a valid policy debate, and that its bigger than me, you, or even perhaps the legislature. (If you think that I should not try to find some solution in our legislative process, you may be far more disappointed with an initiative.)
Obviously, this is a touchy issue on both sides and most legislators I know suggest to everyone involved that if you want to be credible on any issue, stick to the issue, stick to facts that you can back up, avoid (too much) emotion and don't make it personal. Mrs. Miller, I will always defend your right to disagree. How you disagree is entirely up to you.

I research ulterior motives before revealing those motives, and am unafraid to do so publicly. I don't make this about you senator, so please don't guess so; the thing is, your political history & ties are a big part of the hidden agenda in this issue. Those against the domestic elk industry are relying on emotion to gain support rather than fact, which is part of the problem. The distraction is hysteria created by emotion. As for hunting ethics, those vary from person to person and therefore there really is no "right" definition, and I don't see it as my place to tell others what their hunting 'ethics' should be so long as they follow law.

As for CWD- there has never been a case of it on any domestic elk farm in Idaho, nor has there been TB or brucellosis, though brucellosis has been found in wild elk herds in Idaho. MT and WY have these diseases and need to be held accountable for it.

I like to use information I have already 'backed up' through research, and it is important for people to understand the motive and true identity of those creating these attacks on elk farms and understand that what they are relying on is emotion and not fact.

The 'Sportsmen's' caucus website has many false 'facts' including false statements regarding Idaho law, so I'm not the one who needs to be told to base things on fact. I am angry, yes, because the facts of this aren't being put out there, and I am angry about a group claiming to represent sportsmen, as I am one, taking support from anti-hunting groups. This is public record.

As for your record, well sir, you are a politician- so politics motivate you and your causes. Politics do not motivate my cause, but rather urged me to develop that cause: to get the truth about my industry to the public. A 'solution' cannot be reached, legislatively or otherwise, unless there are appropriate actions and the 'solution' persued is realistic and pertains only to fact. For me, the inappropriate actions were Rammell's defiance, which doesn't represent the whole industry, and the 'caucus' using misinformation to gain support of their cause.

So Ms. Miller, what is your stand, exactly? I'm willing to entertain the opposing opinion--is there a link to a webpage or something?

For whatever reason, I feel like I should add that while I am a non-hunter, I support the right to hunt and am currently of the opinion that game farms have a detrimental impact on wild species. But I'd listen to what you have to say...

I would like to know, Sen. Langhorst, if you have received any campaign money from any animal-rights groups like Defenders of Wildlife, Humane Society of the United States, etc. By sponsoring bills to eliminate domestic elk farming and "canned hunts", you are opening Idaho up to years of animal-rights actions that ultimately seek to end all hunting. I find it interesting that you are so passionate against elk farms, but not the farm raising of pheasants (and other game birds) or hatchery-raised steelhead for the purpose of harvesting by hunters and fishermen.

Although I raise domestic elk (breeding stock only) I was first and am a hunter. My Dad builds custom traditional muzzleloaders and I've been shooting and hunting since age 4. My main concern and purpose for 'exposing,' if you will, ulterior motive is the very serious possibility that non-hunting groups and/or persons are fueling this attack on domestic elk. In Idaho, there is disease in wild herds (tuberculosis) but none in domestic herds. This 'threat' to wildlife is essentially non-existant per this fact. Since there are groups dead set on eliminating hunting whatever way possible, it is important to know what avenues they use, such as injecting their own into 'sportsmen' groups or into legislative areas to push towards their goal. My stand is this: Idaho's domestic elk industry controversy should not be allowed to be used by these groups as a stepping stone for their push to eliminate hunting and/or second ammendment rights. I am concerned about false statements made by the 'caucus' on their site regarding domestic elk, as misinformation is no way to educate and a 'wrong' way to encourage support. As a hunter of wild game, avid member, and NRA sponsor, this is important to me. For myself, this isn't just about elk farms. It's about Free Enterprise & Private Property Rights, and attacks on all hunting.

Erin, I absolutely agree with you. This issue is not centered on facts; it is solely about political agendas and people's personal feelings about hunting methods. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game is behind some of the momentum. Why? Because they see elk ranches, and particularly "canned hunts", as taking money away from them. F&G;is largely responsible for the dismal hunter success rates in Idaho, which I feel is part of the motivation of some hunters to turn to "canned hunts." It is interesting to me that some so-called hunters oppose "canned hunts" but are fine with ranchers shooting domestic cows in fenced areas for beef. I guarantee that if elk ranching and "canned hunting" are banned in Idaho, animal-rights groups will smell blood and will target other hunting methods. And to those hunters who would have helped ban elk ranching, I have just one question for you. When the animal-rights groups come after your hunting method, who will come to your rescue?

Erin and Erik,

I can tell by your comments that you prefer that the game farming issue be decided on facts, but the recent talk about the efforts to ban elk ranching and canned hunts being fueled by anti-hunting or animal rights groups is far from factual. Quite to the contrary, concerned hunters are fueling this effort.

I followed the long battle to ban canned hunts and phase out game farming in Montana, and the anti-hunting/animal rights concern was never an issue. The effort was completely funded and fueled by hunters such as members of the Montana Wildlife Federation. In your state, the Idaho Sportsman's Caucus Advisory Council has taken a position in support of a prohibition of canned hunts or shooter bull operations and supports a ban on game farming. This is not an animal rights or anti-hunting group, nor would these folks have anything to do with the issue if it had any chance of endangering hunting or second amendment rights.

One more fact. Defenders of Wildlife is not an anti-hunting group, nor is it a pro-hunting group, but it is pro-wildlife and pro-wolf. Certainly some members are against hunting, but long ago the group's leadership decided to stay neutral on the issue of hunting.

Bill

Bill, you have proven what Erin and I have been saying: this issue is based on emotion, not facts. This is precisely how animal-rights groups operate. I think you are mistaken when you said animal rights groups are not "fueling" this issue. One visit to the HSUS website will prove you wrong. This animal-rights organization had at least one lobbyist in Idaho during the 2006 Idaho Legislative session (based on information provided by the Sec. of State's office). And the Idaho Sportsman's Caucus Advisory Council is far from objective. This organization is made up of a number of organizations, with a strong influence from its membership of former Fish and Game officials. Look at two of the council's guiding principles: (1) "To support the long term economic viability of the Idaho Department of Fish and Game" and (2) "safeguarding the fees paid by Sportsmen to the Idaho Department of Fish and Game for all permits, licenses, and services." As I stated earlier, the Fish and Game is against "canned hunts" because they are losing out on revenue. It's interesting though that they are okay charging fees to hunters to shoot farm-raised pheasants in select areas of Idaho. The only reason elk ranching is an issue at all is because elk are involved. The uninformed member of the public is not aware these are elk born and bred in capitivity. They are as domestic as common livestock. Very few people care how common livestock are raised, harvested, and sold. They only care about elk ranching because they are elk. Period.

By the way, so-called hunters who would sponsor a citizen initiative to end elk ranching are no better than animal-rights activists because they too are sealing the fate of hunting by doing so.

"...rumors of allignment with anti-hunting groups such as HSUS..." No longer a rumor: http://www.idahohumanesociety.com/stopcannedhunts.pdf

If they delete the site which they probably will, see a picture of the page at:
http://www.thunderbucks.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1169154031/s-0/

Excellent work, Erin! The Idaho Sportsman’s Caucus Advisory Council has climbed into bed with the devil and I'm going to make sure everyone knows it. Their credibility just got flushed down the toilet. I'll bet you that once the letters to the editor start, the Idaho Sportsman’s Caucus Advisory Council will deny any involvement with HSUS.

More proof that the HSUS is coupled with the ISCAC:
http://network.bestfriends.org/idaho/news/10756.html
I think the rumor is now verified as fact.

Bill

You should really verify the information you receive from these so called "sportsmen groups". They can deny their involvement all they want, but the facts are facts, and now there is PROOF that they are all in bed with one another. Funny how the Caucus pretends that they are representing the 10's of thousands of sportsmen in Idaho however only less than 200 of them showed up for CAMO DAY, the majority of which were board members.

This so called Caucus doesn't represent REAL LIVE sportsmen, their mighty leaders are all environmentalists who have a socialist view of hunting, ranching, land use, etc. They claim to be pro-hunting and "for the sportsmen", yet they are teaming up with the HSUS, the country's largest anti-hunting group. HMMM...

And now we have proof, I wonder how they will deny this relationship now. Each and every day, more and more Idahoans will learn who this caucus really is. These groups may have been successful in other states, but they are not going to win here in Idaho. None of their claims have ever been backed up with true scientific facts, thus in my eyes, they are truly inaffective.

People want the truth, not politically motivated environmentalist agendas.

First of all, the ISCAC has absolutely NO relationship with HSUS, PETA or any other animal rights organization. The Advisory Council has voted on and passed a resolution forbidding the acceptance of any funds from any of these organizations and I would be more than happy to provide the meeting notes that support this claim. As well, HSUS has never received any authority or permission to suggest or imply that there was a collaborative effort for “Camo Day” or any other effort. The Idaho Sportsmen’s Caucus Advisory Council was approached by HSUS about Camo Day and were told that no one was barred from the event and that everyone concerned with hunting, fishing, and sporting issues in the State were encouraged to attend. We extended the invitation to Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Idaho Fish and Game, as well as legislators and elk breeders. The event was crafted to be as even-handed and well-attended as possible. In fact, several elk breeders were in attendance as well. ISCAC President Mark Bell of the National Wild Turkey Federation is currently demanding a retraction of the claims made by HSUS on their website.
It is also not surprising that the Elk Breeders are using this found information in an attempt to discredit the sportsmen of Idaho. It is also not surprising that HSUS deliberately made an attempt to create a divide between the unified sporting groups. Both are tactics straight from the handbook used in other states who have or currently are facing these issues in their Legislature. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and this effort to distract sportsmen and women from the real issues of ethical hunting practices in our state are a chief example of such.
Remember, all information found on websites does not equate to truth or reality. HSUS has a notorious reputation for attacking hunters and anglers and trying to drive a wedge between unified coalitions. If we fight amongst ourselves, we are less focused on the real issues. A simple analysis of ISCAC’s membership would indicate how serious our organization is about Idaho’s hunting tradition. A short list of membership includes the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, National Wild Turkey Federation, Trout Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, Idaho Trappers Association and the list goes on.
I challenge those responsible for posting these false allegations of a cooperative and unified effort between ISCAC and HSUS, or any other radical organization, to step forward with documented proof. Again, website materials are not a reliable source of information. Simply check out the website any Elk Ranch operation that claims they provide clients a “real hunting experience” and you will see that even the most dubious and imaginary claims can be suggested as truth.

If this is true then why is the ISCAC's keynote speaker at Camo Day someone who frequently writes articles for the HSUS?

And....Would 'documented proof' be a paper trail for dollars exchanged? What would constitute 'documented proof?'

For the record, Matt Compton is a registered lobbyist for the Idaho Sportsman’s Caucus Advisory Council. Matt, I am particularly disturbed by your statement: "Desperate times call for desperate measures, and this effort to distract sportsmen and women from the real issues of ethical hunting practices in our state are a chief example of such." I thought the organization you represent was concerned about domestic elk spreading disease to wild elk herds. Now all of a sudden you are spouting off about ethics. You see; you are not focusing on the real facts of this debate. There is no documented evidence that domestic elk have spread disease to wild elk herds. Idaho's domestic elk are tested and are disease free. For an organization that claims to represent hunters, I am appalled it is saying that elk ranches should be shut down due to ethics. This is precisely what HSUS is saying. Also, Matt, can you say that absolutely no member of your organization or associated elected officials have been in contact or received monies from HSUS? I think the real truth will be revealed.

I certainly do not speak on the behalf of the numerous individual organizations within the Advisory Council so I can not, nor would I attempt to speak for what affiliations each member organization has. Many of these organizations work on multiple campaigns and have Public Relations officials that may be able to provide some insight. Essentially you are asking me to declare in the National Wild Turkey Federation, an organization with some half-million sportsmen and women from all over the country has ever dealt with HSUS. I don’t know. Do I think the Idaho Houndsmen have ever received money from HSUS? A cold day in hell, perhaps. But again, this warrant you quest is outside of my responsibilities. I can also not attest to the fundraising campaigns of the Legislative Sportsmen’s Caucus. Their records are clearly available for anyone to review and I am not their spokesman either. I am a “registered lobbyist” for ISCAC, and represent only the dealings and business voted upon by the member representatives within, and only those issues. I will, with all certainty, declare that no money from any animal rights organizations, including HSUS has ever found its way into ISCAC’s accounts. Erin, with your noble assertion that the “paper trail” is evident, please provide more than an empty indictment and come forth with the proof. And without proof, let us move forward on finding merit in proposed legislation that all parties can agree upon. I have made every effort to clean up the debate between the many interests involved in this issue, and ask that you do the same.

Ethics in regard to Elk Hunting within a fenced property has always been on the table as a concern of ISCAC. Had you attended the multiple discussion groups between ISCAC, elk breeders, as well as other concerned groups, you would know that we have been vocal about the ethical “fair chase” of game, as well as CWD, Brucellosis, and Tuberculosis. But it seems would like to keep the debate centered on disease because you are aware that every other state where game farms have been banned, ethics and fair chase has been the “nail in the coffin” for elk farms. Montana’s initiative to ban farms was declared a success because the sporting community overwhelmingly objected to the practice of “canned hunts”. The legal battles still underway there indicate the same.

And as a point of clarification, my only affiliation to the Legislative Sportsmen’s Caucus is as a liaison to and from the Advisory Council. The members of the Sportsmen’s Caucus do not represent the interests of ISCAC. They are a caucus of Republicans and Democrats that have taken interest in a plethora of sporting and conservation issues. Domestic Elk issues are only one of many issue they are concerned with this legislative session. And to be quite honest, not all of the Legislative members within the Caucus feel that all Elk Farms must be eliminated. Firing shots across their bow only damages your case for the legitimacy of Elk Farms in Idaho. For example, Senator Siddoway (R-Dist 35), an Elk Breeder himself, was present for the Sportsmen’s Caucus meeting today. I am not sure if he has declared himself a member of the Caucus, but he has certainly taken an active roll in the discussion of the many sporting issues for the state. ISCAC does not attempt to bar any Legislator for the House or Senate from caucus membership, nor do we have the power to do so if we wished. The Sportsmen’s Caucus is open to any group or organization who wishes to provide input on sporting issues. The Caucus, under no circumstances, is under obligation to vote as a block in the interest of ISCAC. Their primary responsibility is to their constituencies.

Matt, if your organizations have problems with canned hunting, then they must certainly also object to pheasants and other game birds, buffalo, and cattle that are raised on farms and harvested in fenced enclosures or small acreages. Right? Let's go ahead and open up all methods of hunting to a public ethics debate too. Are all hunting practices ethical to all people? Where do you draw the line? It comes down to personal choice, and in the case of elk farms, private property rights. The elk in question do not belong to Idaho's sportsmen anymore than my neighbor's cattle belong to me. How he harvests his cattle is his business, not mine. The people who represent your organizations and are demonstrating this holier-than-thou attitude are handing the state of Idaho to the animal-rights activists. Who will defend their hunting sport of choice when the activists come after them? You think it will be the elk breeders?? Or me?? ISCAC reminds me of the Jews in Schindler's List who were conspiring with the Nazis to ultimately protect themselves. We all know how that turned out.

At least ISCAC is now letting us know what the real issue is on the elk debate. It's about ethics. I can assure you that even with your help as a lobbyist ISCAC will not be successful.

I have been concerned with possible ulterior motives, politically and otherwise, behind some attacks on domestic elk ranching. I intended to question alignment between ISCAC and HSUS, as HSUS claimed they had 'partnered up' on two of their sites. Beleive what you will, the fact of the matter is I am a sportsman in addition to being an elk rancher. I am a strong supporter of hunting rights and our 2nd ammendment rights, and don't want HSUS or any anti-hunting group using any type divide & conquer technique in their attacks on hunting.

hi i think that elk farming i re tarded

i think these operations should be banned because it is not a fair chase hunt and really how mutch excitedment can you get out of walking into a fenced yard looking at an elk that has no were to run and shoot it. how could you live with your self its just morally wrong.

First of all, you can't determine "fair chase," especially since you very obviously have never seen the terrain of an elk ranch that offers harvests. Secondly, the 'excitement' is the business of the person harvesting their elk, not yours. AND... elk harvest ranches aren't 'fenced yards,' as you'd know if you bothered to look into the truth of the issue a little. Morals are each individual's choices and really no business of yours. So long as a person is not breaking laws or violating another's rights, what he does is his business and his right. No one person should decide how another hunts, so long as that person is within the law. Do us all a favor people and do a little smart research before mouthing off and making an idiot of yourself.

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I am against elk Ranches. Wildlife means just what it says, "wildlife",and for people to build fences and keep our wildlife like domestic cows, is not what god had in mind when he created "wildlife". As far as hunters being allowed to hunt on elk ranches, that just makes me sick, if a man wants to hunt, then he shall have to hunt like a real man hunts, out in the wildnerness, on foot, no quads, no horses, just him and a bow and arrow or gun.That is a real hunter! To hunt on an elk ranch, should be illegal. It doesnt take skill, it is like butchering a cow.If they dotn want to hunt like a hunter, then go to the grocery store and buy hamburger. Save our wildlife!

Thank God for our constitutional rights to free enterprise and for our freedom of choice. Every animal was once wild no matter how long it has been domesticated, and ranch raised animals are not public wildlife, they are privately legally owned private property. Each can only decide for themselves what is right for them, period. Get with the program- saving wildlife means so much differently than elk ranching, true intentions of saving wildlife are obviously not at heart there or the efforts would be addressing the real and proven threats to our wildlife, true "wildlife."

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