By Pete Talbot, 9-07-06
| Caption: The center section from the Missoula peace sign rests in the backyard at a Northside home. Photo by Pete Talbot | |
Gosh, I hope this happens. I have really missed it.
Comment By Craig Moore, 9-07-06Yep, that'll do it. The Islamo-facists will just put flowers rather than bullets in their guns. Hezbollah will become the new flower children. Iran will make glow-in-the-dark butterflies with their nuclear plants. Al-queda will take up sheep herding. The Taliban will borrow the orange sheets and take up begging at airports.
See: http://jerseyshorejournal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=252&Itemid=60
No, peace won't stop those with evil bent on war, and they can only be stopped by force. But remind me once more exactly how many Hezbollah, Al-Queda, Taliban, were in Iraq?
The problem when you're a little too gung-ho about war is you end up killing people who weren't normally aggressive towards you, which doesn't exactly ingratiate you with their families and friends.
In fact, they might see you as the aggressor, and say something like, "Peace? Yep, that'll do it. The Christian fascists will just put flowers rather than bullets in their guns. The Marines will become the new flower children. America will make glow-in-the-dark butterflies with their nuclear plants, weapons, and depleted uranium rounds. The Air Force will take up sheep herding. The Army will borrow the orange sheets and take up begging at airports. See: (list of grievances here).
Yeah, I know this sounds like a pretty weird concept, but bombing the shit out of a country actually tends to make them *not* like you. In fact, they actually get upset when you torture and rape and kill them.
But hey, I guess that's their fault for not just sucking it up and taking it. After all, only we are capable of feeling human emotion and being part of humanity. The rest of the world, clearly, doesn't get that right.
If I run around and whack the shit out of people with a baseball bat, it's definately their fault if they don't like me. And if their families get upset? Fascists.
Salaam, indeed.
I wish they could find a spot close to where it was originally or someplace on North Hills overlooking Missoula. I also miss seeing it up there, I think it was cool and that's that, no other reason.
Comment By Patia, 9-08-06Excellent response, nd.
Comment By Craig Moore, 9-08-06The "hate" we face is often taught in Madrassas to very young children. There is a common denominator to much of the world violence. Examples: Bali bombing, Darfur genocide, India bombings, Sri Lanka, Phillipines violence, Thai violence, London bombings, Spanish train bombings, those incidents listed by MG Chong, Kosovo War, Paris riots, Armenian genocide by the Turks, etc. Right cannot negotiate with wrong and prevail. Good cannot appease evil and survive.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html
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What you're saying is that, if we wanted to look for the causes of what's happened -- Al Qaeda and the movement worldwide -- we would have to look to the schools, to the educational system which Saudi Arabia has fostered in the Islamic world?
... In order to have terrorists, in order to have supporters for terrorists, in order to have people who are willing to interpret religion in violent ways, in order to have people who are willing to legitimate crashing yourself into a building and killing 5,000 innocent people, you need particular interpretations of Islam.
Those interpretations of Islam are being propagated out of schools that receive organizational and financial funding from Saudi Arabia. In fact, I would push it further: that these schools would not have existed without Saudi funding. They would not have proliferated across Pakistan and India and Afghanistan without Saudi funding. They would not have had the kind of prowess that they have without Saudi funding, and they would not have trained as many people without Saudi funding.
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These facist fanatics will not be dissuaded by Missoula's peace sign.
These facist fanatics will not be dissuaded by Missoula's peace sign.
Perhaps not. But WE will be inspired by it.
It always amazes me when people are AGAINST peace.
Peace and freedom do not come to those that merely wish for it and paint signs. IF the sign inspires people, like the Iwo Jima statue, that it requires cost, sacrifice, and strength then fine. Can you imagine the Poles ringing their country with the "peace sign" before WWII and finding the inspiration to defend their peace and freedom? The people that fought back from the depths of the Warsaw ghetto knew the price for peace and freedom. Inspiration comes from tapping true emotion while conveying blood, sweat, tears, and light at the end of the tunnel.
Comment By Jacob Dolan, 9-08-06I think the fact that their have been no "No" votes on the peace sign is because the only place to vote on it is at the Jeanette Rankin Peace Center. People who would be opposed to it would likely not set foot in that place I am sure. Personally I don't care either way if there is a peace sign.
Comment By Jim Fleischmann, 9-08-06Yo, Craig. Nobody is saying "let's roll over for oppressors". I think those that would like to see the peace sign restored are simply saying "let's have a public symbol that Missoulians value and support peace". Sign me up.
Comment By nd, 9-08-06Exactly right. Before we expect peace from others, we have to show it in ourselves. I can understand si vis pacem, parabellum, but I cannot understand an absolute refusal of peace or a symbol of it.
We may indeed face enemies as a nation over time, but that does not mean we should stop longing for peace and working towards it. As the Bible says, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the Sons of God." As the Qur'an says, "Allah loveth not the aggressors." As the Buddha Siddhartha Gautama said, "For in this world, hatred is never appeased by more hatred."
That is not a denial of self-defense, but a mind devoid of thoughts of peace, and only thoughts of paranoia, violence, and being wronged is one full of hatred. At that point, you must ask yourself: why do we deserve to survive? What makes us "good"? And the answer is a complex one, but peace is certainly a part of it, and something that is good for us to be reminded of.
A better symbol would be to remind people that peaceful tranquility does not exist on its own accord. Over 4 million people have been killed in central Africa while the world stood and watched. Every rational human being that values living a productive life and having a home and family wants peace. Alignment on this value is key. However, the world is not so aligned. Look to the link I provided on the madrassas. Look to our own cities where pacific people are being mugged and brutalized by agressors that don't share the key value. Peace does not exist by glorifying 3 converging lines in a cirle, singing Kumbaya, sharing a joint and holding hands. Peace takes strength and sacrifice. Peace takes the knowledge of what is necessary to achieve and provide it while vicious violence is held at bay at the perimeter of chaos.
I suggest Missoula ask your local VFW and returning veterans what do they think of the symbol and elicit their thoughts on what would be significant given their experiences. Don't make the decision in a vacuum filed with only like kind thinking. In my opinion, real symbols aren't objects, they are behaviour that is enduring, refreshing, and renewable everyday.
Some photos of the Peace sign, as well as when they were taking it down are posted here: http://www.saroff.com/peace.htm
http://www.saroff.com/peaceApartRun.jpg