ONE OF RAMMELL'S ELK NOT SO PURE
Red Deer Genes Confirmed
By Bill Schneider, 12-16-06
All the testing and re-testing has been done, finally, in the aftermath of the Great Elk Escape, and the Idaho Department of Agriculture, regulatory agency in charge of the investigation, has determined that one of Rex Rammell’s elk definitely carried red deer genes.The State of Idaho has ordered that single elk, a live cow that did not escape, “destroyed, neutered or removed from the state,” according to Ag Department spokesman John Chatburn, and that order is “currently being accomplished.”
After the escape, the Ag Department tested elk shot by state sharpshooters and in a special damage-control hunt ordered by Governor Jim Risch and the rest of Rammell’s herd that did not escape, which is standard procedure in such situations.
Idaho’s regulatory has a system to prevent such genetic impurities from happening, but this elk slipped through the system. Before a game farm can bring any domestic elk into Idaho, Chatburn explained, they must be tested for genetic purity. Ag department records show that this particular elk was registered and tested by a Colorado lab before Rammell brought it to Idaho, but apparently, that test was faulty. New tests done in a different lab, based in Canada, have twice determined that the same elk had red deer impurities.
Chatburn noted that 20 elk that escaped have not been recovered and are now listed as “status unknown,” but he could not speculate on whether any of the missing elk had genetic impurities. [End of article]
Has the testing protocols of the Canadian and Colorado labs been compared? Has the original lab been give the opportunity to repeat its tests on the tissues of this cow? If this cow was brought to Idaho in, I believe 1999, why aren't there others also with the genes? I think it's a bit premature to conclude that the cow had red deer genes until these questions are answered.
Comment By Bill Schneider, 12-16-06Craig,
John Chatburn told me each lab blamed the other lab for faulty tests, but that his department had decided to agree with the Canadian lab's results. Seems to me this must be clear enough, scientifically, because I'm sure the ag dept would prefer that there were no confimred red deer impurities.
Bill
Bill, thank you. Sounds as if confirmation was achieved through consensus rather than by uncontroverted data sets and science. Was the cow sterile to have lived through 6-7 breeding cycles without passing on her genes? No need to answer, just a rhetorical question that is buzzing in my head.
Comment By mike, 12-16-06Bill, one of the things that has bothered me about this situation and its coverage has been the question of how these animals were kept in the first place. I never did any accurate count; but, it looked like way over 100 AUs, perhaps as many as 200, were being kept on maybe a quarter section. You can do that in Georgia or northern Florida; but, it's sure not a pretty picture in Idaho. The fact than you can keep animals alive under feedlot conditions does not mean that it is any way to treat elk. Exotic/invasive genetics notwithstanding, there is more than one serious ethical question here.
Comment By Californiamontanacan, 12-17-06Our natural herd shouldn't be at ANY risk, we shouldn't have ANY doubt, and there shouldn't be a need to spend ANY money figuring it out. Game farms need to be outlawed.
-Californiamontanacan
Can't go there with you Californiamontanacan. The natural herds are beyond risk as they are already infected with disease. Rammell's herd was found to be disease free. As I understand, 90 animals were sampled for the red deer gene. Only the old cow showed a positive by the Canadian lab. As I also understand, false positives are common. There was no further confirmation by the original lab to repeat its tests which showed no such gene when they certified the herd as pure elk. If a mistake was repeated by the Canadian lab it not too much of a stretch to expect that they would get the same false positive. The fact that the Idaho officials choose to accept it without more demonstrates to me that they wished to just bring this matter to an end without further stringing out this matter.
Personally, I don't pay hunt. I don't like that farms and ranches go this route for well-heeled clientele. But because I oppose it doesn't mean that it should be outlawed if the facts of generalized harm don't support it. Do we outlaw commercial hog raising because these animals were once wild? Also, the wild hogs and pigs we have here came from domesticated stock. The door swings both ways on the domesticated --- wild continuum.
So, Craig, you make yourself a continual advertisement for the TRCP, yet also insist on defending Rex Rammell's shooting pen fiasco and then can't understand why people don't trust you or the TRCP?
Comment By Craig Moore, 12-18-06Mike, it's Christmas. I'm going to resist ripping you a new one. Merry Christmas!
Comment By ryan, 12-27-06Mr Rammell has never been one to cooperate with the fairly simple regulations that dept of ag requests. Some of the elk that were killed outside the pens were not even on his dept of ag inventory. Numerous unmarked calves could have escaped and nobody really knows how many animals he had. Whether or not the animal had red deer impurities, just the fact it comes into question is enough to convince me based on his past dealings. Have you seen some of those bulls killed at his place? Pretty impressive for "natural" yellowstone elk genetics. I understand that nutrient supplements, diet, etc...can grow amazing antlers. But with as shady as this guy has been, I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to think he had one or two cows with red deer genetics that were bred to produce "trophy" ($8000) bulls.
Shooter bull operations need to be outlawed for situations just as this. The tempation for owners to mess with genetics because of the promise of more money is too high.
Even though this guy is bottom of the barrell, he still may have a case for private property takings. But issues like this only arise because of the complacency of regulatory entities, inability of lawmakers and citizens to realize what really is in their best interests, and the draw of the almighty dollar.