By Todd Wilkinson, 1-07-07
Bozeman, Montana has always assumed an air of superiority when referencing Livingston— that smaller neighboring, bare-knuckled, blue-collar, railroad and river town on the eastern side of Bozeman Pass along Interstate 90.Since it's apparently an approved form of response in Livingston, we need to give the guy a wedgie.
Comment By Robert Hoskins, 1-06-07It's hard to argue with the truth, but I suppose the people who live in Bozeman are up to the challenge, kind of like the Friends of the Northern Elk Herd are when they can't explain scientifically how it is that wolves are wiping out northern Yellowstone's elk.
Of course, down here in Wyoming, Jackson has become a place where Californians, capitalists, and captains of Washington politics are comfortable too.
Pooor Robert, you are fortunate enough to live a one of the most beautiful places on earth and you are always so sour and unhappy.
If FNEH can't explain how the wolves are decimating the Northern Elk Herd, to your satisfaction, you might want to read the Dec 8-15 Western Gray Wolf Report, then be sure to read the study by David Mech referenced there. It does not bode well for the elk, and of course ultimately the wolves.
Livingston's more like "Butte-ugly". How's the toxic waste cleanup and giant underground diesel spill cleanup going ?
Comment By John Young, 1-08-07As a Butte resident, I'd say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer the Mining City to Bozangeles because this town has character, its people are friendlier and it's affordable. I'm reminded of a quote by Noah Cross (John Huston's character in "Chinatown"): "Course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, public buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough." I find the toxins of unbridled development that you see in the Bozeman-Belgrade corridor more objectionable than any heavy metals that might be present in my back yard in Butte.
Comment By Scott, 1-08-07I'll take Missoula any day.
Comment By Kyle Jacobsen, 1-08-07Bozeman may be getting very ugly, but at least other people are profiting from it.
Comment By Eric, 1-08-07Last time I checked, it took more than a little bit of profiteering to make Montanans sound so petty and scared. The facts are Butte, Bozeman, Livingston, Missoula - they are all changing. But the point is this - we can point fingers and talk about how "authentic" we are, as if we were some dust-coated heirloom waiting for Antiques Road Show to pay a visit, or we can strike a chord of solidarity and say, "Hey, this sucks about growth but why not grow smarter, use our resouces wiser, take responsibility for managing our communities?" On a statewide level, Montanans should be busy working on collective solutions rather than occupied with looking down on their neighbors. But I guess that wouldn't be a "headline news story" would it?
Comment By Bob Wire, 1-08-07It's all about perception. Had I not fly-fished the Madison and Gallatin Rivers and drank whiskey at the Corner Club in the late 70's and early 80's, I might have encountered Bozeman recently and thought, "Wow, what a cool town." I live in Missoula, but Bozeman is still my second-favorite city. I love Montana, and every town from Troy to Butte to Billings has something great to offer, some special quirk unique to that place. Well, maybe not Billings.
Comment By Tom Chambers, 1-08-07Yeah, Bozeman's landscape has changed, but far worse is the change in the kind of people who live there. Used to be that everybody - from the daily patrons of the Rockn' R and Crystal, to the local Ranch and business owners - all worked and played (hard) together. They were all equal characters in their own right, regardless of income, education, or pedigree.
Now its a bunch of pretentious closet snobs wrapped up in new Carhardts and fleece, who couldn't tell a good joke or story unless it came from the pages of New Yorker magazine. With their imported brand of judgmentalism they can't be bothered to perhaps befriend an 'ol timer and truly understand the Valley's history and soul. Its about time we realize the real treasure of the Treasure State was the people.
That's what made us leave Bozeman 20yrs. ago and that's why families who have lived there for generations are disappearing faster than 50 cent coffee on Main Street.
Eric's got a great point. Why not stop bitchin' and work toward a common goal of smart growth and resource management.
Comment By noodly appendage, 1-08-07Nothing against the mining city, you understand, but I've heard the whole "Butte people are friendlier" myth since I got to Bozeman decades ago. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now. Past Bozeman high schoolers can tell you all about getting the windows of their school bus broken out at a Friday night football game. Roofers and other contractors tell the story of being strong armed out of town by locals.
Nor is it particularly true that outsiders were welcomed in Livingston back when the railroad was blowin and goin a thousand people strong. No outside business was welcomed, not a Mcdonalds, not a grocery store, nothing. Even those railroad jobs were jealously guarded by the locals against others, even if they had seniority to " bump" in.
I'd say the real story is more what Tom Chambers expressed. Newcomers are to be vilified as "pretentious closet snobs" unlike the "real people" who earned that appellation by being born in a particular town.
I think the judgmentalism is all on the side of those with the exclusionary attitudes. This reverse snobbery of "we're poor and by golly, that makes us more real" is just another conceit.
Bozeman's been a progressive place, used to a lot of coming and going because of the constant changes of students and professors and administrators at the University, and pretty open minded about accepting those who come, whether with money or not, provided they work hard, keep their noses clean and contribute. It's been a darwinian sort of place, where people either make it or leave. There's always been coming and going in this college town.
As a result, Bozeman citizens are less concerned about who your grandparents were, and a lot more concerned about who YOU are. I think Bozeman's an open, friendly town where a guy or gal can arrive with nothing and knowing no one, start out moving irrigation pipe for a dairy farmer, or being a seasonal worker at Yellowstone park, or being a ski bum, or being an out of state college student, and have the ability to make a mark and become a successful part of the community in Bozeman.
It's that sense that it's a fresh start, with no test for origin or birthright, and an offer of opportunity and optimism, that really makes Bozeman beautiful.
Matlow and before him, Chouinard are correct. Bozeman is Bozangeles. Bozangeles is the West. Bozangeles is yet another sad story of the West and what we do to our 'beloved' West.
Short-term focus, rapacious greed, cheap, low-quality development (that will fall down in 5 years), 'subsidies' to large corporations, Cadillac Escalades, and zero evidence of visionary leadership, long-term stewardship and smart, consistent -- over decades -- growth.
For those of you looking to move to the Northern Rockies, don't even bother with Bozangeles, it's ruined. Ask any Bozangeles-ian about the enormous War of Worlds street lights on S 19th Avenue and the 500 house subdivision going in right under them. [The Carpenters]: "We've only just begun."
What a bunch of whiners. Things change, so what else is new? It's the nature of things. And aren't people who judge others because they drive escalades really just malcontents who can't tolerate a little affluence. These same people probably preach tolerance ad nauseum, unless it's about people who have nice houses and cars (the bastards), maybe a few coins to rub together like a lot of people do in this country, and in the world. What's the matter, haven't you ever been anywhere? Get real, and get around a little. Stop judging people for what they have, and what you don't.
Comment By Kyle Jacobsen, 1-12-07It seems that the county and city commisions are reactive to developers rather than proactive towards a greater planned community. With our government in such a defense position it's no wonder our landscape is sprawled upon in a such a manner.
Comment By Brodie Farquhar, 1-13-07I once heard of two, small-town, neighboring editors in Colorado. They were good friends, but both bemoaned declining ad sales and subscriptions.
They hit on the idea of starting a public fight between the two newspapers, even giving each other sneak previews.
It worked very well, boosting readership and ad sales. It fell apart when one of the publisher/editors died and his friend fessed up.
What a silly discussion. The fact of the matter is, Bozeman is losing its identity, though it is not entirely the community's fault. Gallatin County is just growing too fast for its own good. Livingstonians are rightfully skeptical and cautious of the reverberations rippling into Park County from Gallatin. Livingston's curious, gritty and unrefined character are what make this place great. The more and more Bozeman buys into the idea that it is God's gift to Montana and the West, the less and less the city will resemble everything that makes Montana and the West great. Bozemanites and Livingstonians are both righteous. The truth is, both towns are great places to live. They are not great because a handful of movie stars or authors may live among us (I would disagree with Mr. Kirchoff here that Livingstonians fawn over our resident movie stars...quite the opposite actually). The towns are not great because thousands of people want to move here (or just have a 2nd or 3rd home here). They are great because they are beautiful places, and the people who live here are deeply humbled and made real by living in such places. For Bozeman's 7th and North 19th streets, I'm afraid what was great is gone. This does not mean Bozeman is still not a great place. Though Matlow is right to bemoan such sprawl, he oversimplifies the issue. Though Livingston residents may come to Bozeman for entertainment and shopping (I must say that I have seen Mr. Kirchoff dining in Livingston many times), Livingston survives because its citizens are loyal to this town and because people love to come visit this beautiful corner of the world (Bozemanites included). We are at the beginning of a huge surge in growth here, and it would be a tragedy to see this Western town roll over for big money and big egos. All Montana communities would be better off learning from each others' growing pains and working together than wasting time in a pointless discussion over which Montana town is the best. Methinks Bozemanites are defensive because, while they still love their town, they secretly or unsecretly hate what is happening to it. Lastly, to the writer who so glibly asked how Livingston's Superfund cleanup was going--First of all, ragging on Butte is so cliche. Secondly, I would ask you the same of Bozeman: There are plenty of Superfund sites lurking there as well. How are they going?
Comment By PAT, 1-15-07I AM A 5TH GENERATION MONTANA NATIVE.MONTANA IS NOT BOZEMAN WHERE ALL THE CALIFORNIAS HANG OUT.IT IS NOT LIVINGSTON.IT'S TOWNS LIKE BUTTE(YES A BLUE COLLAR TOWN) OR GREAT FALLS ANOTHER BLUE COLLAR TOWN.COME TO ARE STATE TO VIST JUST DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON THE WAY HOME.ALSO PER WHAT OUR GOV. SAYS I DO NOT WANT OUR STATE TO DIG UP THE BULL MOUNTAINS.THE BOZEMAN I REMEMBER 40 YEARS AGO IS NOTHING LIKE THE BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTUGLYYYYYYYYYYYY PLACE IT IS NOW
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