DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR DINNER CAME FROM?
Bison Nation: A Way To See Value Of Local Food
By Todd Wilkinson, 2-13-07
When the idea was circulated last fall at a North American conference on buffalo in Denver sponsored by the Wildlife Conservation Society, “bison nation” had a ring of sounding like it came from the mouths of counterculturists.
Indeed, the document being passed around was titled “A Manifesto by Gary Nabhan and Kelly Kindscher.” And the question could be asked: Counterculture to what?
Inserted in the broadsheet pamphlet, printed on recycled paper and sprinkled with quotations from Native American leaders of yore, was a call to action.
The message was watch what we eat. Know what it is we eat. Where it comes from. Looking at the landscape around us for natural, pesticide- and herbicide-free foods, embracing our own foraging habits as a means for thinking about how to live happier and healthier.
For Nabhan, a well known and respected ecologist from Arizona and founder of Renewing America’s Food Traditions, and Kindscher, a first-rate botanist from Kansas, the Great Plains and higher western grasslands is a breadbasket for foods and animals that aren’t grown in monoculture.
It offers a menu that rests at the bottom of the food chain, feeding the big game ungulates, lying dormant in some cases, or dwelling beneath a canopy of crops that have replaced what was once a “native” diet. RAFT offers a map identifying the ranges of what it calls North America’s food-based traditions.
The Rockies, extending from Mexico to Canada, are encompassed by five subcategories that Nabhan calls “Bison Nation”, “Pinyon Nut Nation”, “Salmon Nation”, “Moose Nation”, and “Chile Pepper Nation”. In the Deep South, there’s even “Corn Bread & BBQ Nation” and along the California coast “Abalone Nation”.
The business of trying to eat foods homegrown in a local region—and recognizing the cultural attachment— is, in fact, a growing business. It’s part of a nascent movement billions of dollars strong worldwide that, when set within the context of the BSE scare in beef and the salmonella outbreak in industrially-produced spinach, is gaining momentum. Having a safe, reliable outlet for food already matters, but it will be a matter of survival if terrorists or serious disease affect the country as a whole.
Of course, as is obvious, the organic movement also has positive implications for grass-fed cattle producers, defenders of wildlife herds, amateur gardeners, healthy local restaurants, and families who shop at the farmers’ market or local co-op.
“Today, when much of the best soil in America produces only genetically-engineered annual crops of corn or soybeans, nitrate pollution in our streams, and dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico, it may be hard to fathom the simple fact that much of that land had fed its human inhabitants for thousands of years while staying under the perennial cover of grasses and herbs,” Nabhan and Kindscher write, noting that the same plants that historically supported millions of bison also were sustainable edibles for native people and early settlers.
Okay, before we proceed further, most of us probably agree with the principle of eating local but how many are willing to act upon it when presented with more convenient, pre-packaged, highly processed and likely, cheaper options?
I know a few right now who will, out of habit, rebel against such thinking because they’ll write it off as a plot from wimpy progressives to tell them what to do. Yes, indeed, if a burly man feels like havin’ a hamburger made of meat that acquired genetic material from dozens of different bovines that converged at the feedlot and slaughterhouse, that has a high fat content, and carries a higher risk of causing diabetes and heart disease, you ought to darn sure be able to have it.
Go for it.
But Nabhan and Kindscher aren’t preaching at you. They’re merely trying to point out that there’s an alternative to the blind spot we Americans have with our food. They want us to slow the fast pace down. Groups like the Chef’s Collaborative have enlisted cooks from the finest restaurants in America to promote local native “slow food” as opposed to industrial fast food. So has the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy, the Seed Savers Exchange, and Slow Food USA have embraced their call.
Every year in the fall, the Corporation for the Northern Rockies in Livingston, Montana hosts a special celebration at Chico Hot Springs that features a multi-course dinner, from drinks and appetizers through dessert, consisting of foods grown and harvested in our corner of the West. Hundreds of food growers from across the West attend.
Sure, the Rockies in the middle of winter is a difficult place to go scrounging, but as the Corporation for the Northern Rockies has shown, we can eat healthier without having to do that.
Harvesting from the bio-region isn’t radical. A decade ago, Kelly, Wyoming hook and bullet writer Ted Kerasote discussed it at length in his excellent book, Blood Ties.
A celebration of hunting, Ted’s book took took animals rights activists to task in pointing out their own hypocrisy. While they chastised Ted for being a hunter, he told the urban gatherers to take a long look at the rice in their bowls they eat righteously as part of their Vegan diet. As Ted noted, the rice they were eating, whether in Wyoming or Washington, D.C, was likely harvested from a sea of expensive oil and taxpayer subsidies if one considers the costs of operating the machinery to plant and harvest it, the irrigated water, the costs and fuel associated with shipping it thousands of miles to market, displaying it in a store lighted by electricity and then to cooking it at home.
Supporting local producers, Kerasote noted, has many dividends, including a reduction in impacts to the environment, giving the consumer solace in knowing where the food came from, supporting local jobs, and in recognizing the value of biodiversity.
Nabhan’s and Kindscher’s manifesto calls for the return of wild bison to the plains but short of that the first step of being a citizen in Bison Nation is asking how the food got to your plate. Unfortunately, for many of the dinners we eat, making the inquiry may give us an answer that either isn’t known or appealing.
Harvest a well-fed Montana deer. Let hang for about a week. Debone and process yourself into meal portions. When ready for a steak, thaw overnight. Place steak in large zip lock bag with a generous amount of teriyaki sauce. Squeeze out the air and let marinate throughout the day. Throw on the BBQ for the evening meal and baste with olive oil during the cooking. Deeeeeeelicious!!!! Works for Tatanka as well.
Comment By Marion, 2-14-07I go along with Craig, except I add a tiny bit of venegar to the marinade, it cuts the game taste and tenderizes the meat.
As for the free roaming buffalo, I had 12 deer in my yard the other morning over a period of about an hour. I really enjoyed them, however I don't think I would be nearly as happy with a dozen buffalo, there wouldn't be a fence, shrub, bush or much of anything else left.
The deer do a pretty good job of dodging traffic when they go out of my yard and cross the highway, but a herd fo buffalo would just stand there or stroll down the road as anyone who has been thru Yellowstone knows.
Be careful, very careful what you ask for. I'll stick to deer chops.
Marion, here's another one. Soak some mesquite wood chips in a cup of bourbon overnight. Remove the wood chips and save for later grilling. Season the deer steaks with Cajun blackened seasoning and Montreal Steak seasoning. Press in with a spoon. Place the steaks in the flavored bourbon all day. Again, baste with olive oil and add the whiskey soaked wood chips to the BBQ. This recipe is so good it should even work on wolf. Cheers!!!!
Comment By Colonel Bain, 2-14-07cummon you too your mak'n the Colonel Hungry...There is nothing like the good game to eat!!...With or without the whiskey!! ;)
Comment By Jennifer Nitz, 2-15-07I have lived with bison in West Yellowstone for 10 years now. As for them being in my yard for weeks at a time, they do a lot less damage to bushes, and fences, etc. than the snow does. They are slow movers, and would rather go around a fence than through it, I have also seen them jump fences, something to see! I love having them in my yard, they are gentle giants who respect the land.
Comment By Craig Moore, 2-15-07Jennifer, every year people are either killed or injured by getting to close to those "gentle giants." Respect, implies choice between options. Bison are animals. Their relationship to the land is driven by hunger and thirst.
Comment By Marion, 2-15-07Jennifer, take a good look at the river banks in Yellowstone, that eroding is not done by cattle. The Hayden Valley area has been tromped, stomped, rolled on, etc into mud flats. Any rancher who let his land get in that shape from cows would be in big trouble.
I have a little trouble believing that they do not damage your yard, if you have any flowers, plants, or bushes at all. I especially wonder how you get to the car to go to work, and still maintain the 25 yard distance, if your yard is full of buffs. Or do you live at the BFC compound by chance?
Nope, don't live at the BFC compound, you are right people do get too close because they don't realize bison are wild animals that deserve the respect of 'personal space". Unfortunately, some ranchers let their land get in worse shape, often with no consequences. Bison share Hayden Valley with a variety of other ungulates as well, yet still annually it provides for the needs of all those animals, because these animals migrate and it regenerates.
With a little encouragement from the front door the bison will move so we can get to our car safely, they don't like to be bothered too much, and we like them.
Jennifer, I think Marion was really asking about any connection you may have with the BFC. Are you the Jennifer Nitz associated with the BFC that has appeared before the Montana FWP and Montana legislative committees, and written Op-Ed’s?
Comment By Jennifer, 2-15-07Marion asked specifically if I lived there, any connection should be irrelevant if I know the facts. I have, in the past been associated with the campaign, and yes I have appeared before the committees and written those Op-Ed's. I will continue to do those until the myths and lies are dispelled and the truth gets heard, with the bison gaining the respect they deserve as being a specie who is as sacred and deserving to be on this Earth as you or I.
Comment By Marion, 2-15-07Jennifer, if you wish to "get the facts out" in reality, then they all need to be out. First are you saying that buffalo should be restored to all of their former range in their former numbers? If not what areas should have them restored, and why that area and not another? Do you see any potential problems with this? How about their effects on traffic, any problem?
I think in the interest of openess you also whould mention any financial affiliation with BFC, such as job, director, etc. Certainly the interests of ranchers and others are an open part of the discussion.
Are you favoring letting brucellosis infected bison run with no restraints, or are you willing to have infected animals sent to slaughter and disease free animals brought in to run free?
I truly would like to know exactly what it is you guys have in mind, and if there would be any limits.
Marion,
I don't and have never lived at the BFC compound and have lived in this area all my life. Take a GOOD look at the Park period, the Humans have caused more damage and harm than any Bison or Grizzley or any other living thing in there has or ever could have.
I have had up to 17 Bison in my yard at one time and they have never caused any damage! As to your plants etc easy solution DON"T PLANT em.
As to the river banks you ever look at them close and see all the litter and fishing line and human waste that is left?
Too many of you people come out to this country because of the wildlife and the location then try to turn it into little suburbia. You plant noxious weeds such as lupine and larkspur because you think it's 'pretty' well let me tell you something it is not pretty and it is TOXIC to wildlife as well and more so to the cattle industry.
The Brucellosis is about as easy to transmit by bison as getting pregnant in a swimming pool! Get real people! Yes the ELK have done it but if you pay atttention it's been done in a Feedlot setting NOT out in the wild. The bison have NOT gotten intermingled with cattle out here UNLESS they have been chased or harassed by HUMANS.
As to the people being killed or injured by the bison again it is the FAULT of the Human. If people would learn to respect instead of CONTROL the world would be a much happier and safer place.
All I can say if you don't like our wildlife MOVE your more than welcome to come VISIT just don't stay long enough to get in trouble The animals and some of us humans would be MUCH happier.
By the way I am a Hunter and have worked cattle all my life. There was never a problem with the Bison OR the Grizzlies till the HUMANS got involved!
Besides I have NEVER had a Bison or any other wild animal start a wildfire or Steal from me or leave beer cans pop cans or waterbottles laying around.
Wow, Ann. First let me assure you that I did NOT come OUT to this country. I was born and raised in Fremont county, Wyoming, south of Yellowstone. I certainly have never planted larskspur, having grown up on a ranch.
I agree 100% about the human damage, so what is your answer? I personally make it a point to take everything out with me that I bring in, including my trash and human waste.
I asked specifically if there woudl be any problems identified in having unlimited free ranging buffalo, that is all.
By the way after 70+ years, I have no intention of leaving.
As I stated earlier I WAS affiliated with the campaign at one time, but am no longer in any way, I don't know why you insist on dwelling on that topic. I am a resident of Horse Butte. The bison should have the same protection as any other migrating wildlife, that is what they are, not livestock. Bison are native to this area, cattle are the invasive specie. Yellowstone is a box, winter range was not incorporated into it, the bison need to find forage out of the Park because of that, and they have every right to utilize their former range to survive, just like the elk, moose, and the rest. You are more concerned about traffic than the life of a buffalo, that concerns me. That mindset is the reason so much of Creation is destroyed and becoming extinct. As Ann said HUMANS have much more of a destructive impact than ANY wild animal. Wildlife know how to co-exist with nature, people more concerned about the traffic do not. As far as "brucellosis infected bison", remember the cattle brought that disease to the ecosystem in the 1800's the bison have NEVER given it back, the elk have, I don't want to see the elk treated like the bison are, but you don't seem to concerned about them. An effective vaccine needs to be used for the cattle, leave the bison alone, they have natural immunity to it. I see no more problem with unlimited free ranging bison than there is with elk, moose, or any other animal allowed to be free ranging except for humans.
Comment By Ann, 2-15-07Well Marion you have me by 20 years but I must say I'm living in my Grandfathers homestead cabin and I live in Montana on the West side of the Park. Just got power a few years ago and only have running water when it rains(it runs off the roof) BUT I LOVE it and wouldn't change it.
Only because there are too many people, problems would exist with allowing the bison to have 'unlimited' FREE range. Again note it is the HUMANS posing the problem. At this point Bison have NO range free or otherwise. But what are ya going to do?
The 'white-man' eradicated the bison and the wolves and the grizzly then the 'white-man' wants to bring them back but have NO clue on how to manage their decision. RESPECT is a good tool to use. The seek and destroy attitude is just NOT the way to go.
Up here you can't bring any Cattle in until late May to June at the earliest and by then the Bison, on their own, return to the park. If you want to have a hunt fine but give the animals some
habitat outside the park and respect the people that live here and want to have these animals around. We've had so-called hunters out here calling us names, trespassing and shooting in the direction of homes and our Judges refuse to look at the evidence.
Too many humans Blame the Bison for a problem the Humans brought here in the first place. Cattle gave the disease to the Bison NOT the other way around. Mad Cow disease is something they should worry about not the brucellosis. If you cook your meat you won't have a problem with brucellosis. But Mad Cow disease is a different story. All I say is these people that sit behind a desk and decide the fate of these animals need to remove their heads from their built in 'bomb' shelters and get the priorities in order. Quit wasting our Tax-payer dollars on helicopters, and agents and spend that money in the research instead of beating their heads against the wall.
They need to loosen their neckties and allow some oxygen to get to their brains.
P.S. I don't blame you I won't leave either!!
Look, I don't want to argue, but the fact remains, nothing in this country is like it was when the white man came, and no one can change it back.
Absolutely NO ONE knows when brucellosis came into the area, the domestic buffalo brought in from Texas and Montana in 1902 "to restore the balance" may well have been infected prior to being brought in. No one can ever say for certainty, and at this point it really doesn't matter. It is a fact, it has to be taken into consideration, and it has to be dealt with. No matter what your opinion nor mine is, no responsible state official is ever going to risk a major industry in his state by risking infecting the cattle.
You seem to feel ranchers should be forced to risk everything they have and face bankruptcy if necessary to fullfill your dreams. Yet you have nothing invested, nothing to lose except a higher tax bill to make up the lost revenue, and no responsibility. The ranchers carry all of the risk and all of the responsibility.
If the buffalo are to be totally restored it should be done in the plains state where the majority of them were, and use disease free animals. It will never happen because of the problems, and yes the auto accidents. How many lives both human and buffs do you think could be lost on interstates with unlimited herds wandering around?
CDW is a problem that should never have happened, and I do not know of a single person that does not take it seriously, but the two are not realated so far as I have been able to tell.
Another thing I think needs to be brought up is that cattlemen lose more calves to Diptheria, distemper, Scours and Poaching or rustling than they lose to aborting. Besides once a Cow aborts because of brucellosis they are then IMMUNE to the disease. Most Ranchers innoculate for Brucellosis any way. Why not spend the money wasted on helicopters and keeping Agents 'busy' by paying for the Ranchers cost of vaccinations. They would still have enough money left over to do some RESEARCH in the lab. As far as the Traffic problem, do you realize there would be no TRAFFIC problem if the idiots behind the wheel were paying attention to what they are doing and not talking on cell-phones or thinking just because the speed limit is 55 or whatever it is the slowest you are supposed to go. Do they forget that you are to drive safely and according to conditions, just because it's a roadway does NOT mean there are not hazards to be aware of?
Comment By Craig Moore, 2-15-07Jennifer, you are welcome to your opinions. You are welcome to worship the sun, the rocks, the trees, the moon, and the stars. You are welcome to project your human traits to other animal species and believe they possess equivalent sentient qualities as yourself and deserving of an earthly existence. However, this planet, we affectionately call Mother Earth, makes no such choices, nor does ME grade the deserving qualities of any species. ME also doesn't have an ear for prayers offered up in fervent worship. From the beginning of life on this planet, all animals come and go and are replaced by adapted replacements whose survival is dependent on being the fittest and having a certain mastery of their environment. This should continue until Mother Earth goes poof!
We need advocates for the bison. So, please continue but try to realize where the waters edge of believability is.
I'm thinking, Marion that you meant CWD and not CDW. (Chronic wasting disease= CWD.)
CWD is NOT mad cow disease and as far as the 'authorities' can dissertain livestock are resistant to CWD. But again because HUMANS are trying to save a buck or make a buck (by selling grazing land to developers) we have MAD COW disease. Like I said earlier The guys that decide the fate of our Majestic Bison and the Cattleman need to get their priorities in order. Education and a little common sense can go a LONG way to improve the situation.
Craig, being a photo journalist I find it surprising that you read into any of my messages that I worship objects and send up prayers in fervent worship. The preconcieved thoughts of who I am by Marion and yourself have diluted your ability to read what I was trying to convey. I would expect you to have a more open mind. Yet, I also read into your final comment that you somehow don't believe that anything that cannot run from the bullet out of your gun has an equal right to be on this earth as you. I am all for sustainable hunting practices, I am not for, "you are an animal I am a man, now I am going to kill you". Like it or not, every creature put on this planet has a connection to the ecosystem that keeps the planet alive, without them you and every other human being including me would be gone. Sit in on a biology class, this is not an earth worshiper talking it is a zoology major. Marion, if no state official is going to risk the cattle industry then the money spent on slaughtering bison would be spent on getting an adequate vaccine for cattle. Wipe out all the bison, OK one more specie extinct, the other wildlife will keep the disease alive.
Comment By Craig Moore, 2-16-07Jennifer you are way off the mark. I should have added that I don't care what you believe, it doesn't matter to me. I was attempting to point out that in your efforts to be a tatanka advocate, keep your arguments real or risk having people not take you seriously. When you project your human traits to the animals you love, as if such projections were universal truths, your advocacy is judged in the context of someone beyond the water's edge. Jennifer, your appeal to those people you wish to change their minds should be in the language and the context of arguments that those people will find merit. Also be open to consider that hunting and conservation have many examples of a healthy symbiotic relationship.
Comment By Jennifer, 2-16-07Craig, have you ever been around wild buffalo? I never projected human traits on them, that would be an insult. I merely stated that buffalo have as much right to respect and to inhabit this planet as you. In addition to my zoology background, I just completed a documentary on the importance of the buffalo to Native Americans. My views are and even mix of my 2 backgrounds. Which I and many others firmly believe. You also failed to read that I am OK with ETHICAL hunting of animals who have a right to inhabit their NATIVE HABITAT. Having a deep respect for all living things does not mean I anthropomorphize them.
Comment By Craig Moore, 2-16-07Jennifer, you wrote: "I love having them in my yard, they are gentle giants who respect the land." To which I replied, "Respect, implies choice between options. Bison are animals. Their relationship to the land is driven by hunger and thirst." You go on to say in you last post, "buffalo have as much right to respect and to inhabit this planet as you." My meaning was that 'respect' is a conscious HUMAN choice of action based on a value judgment. Quadrupeds don't do this. If we see this human value assessment in animals than we are projecting to them. As to attacking hunting and hunters you then said, "that you somehow don't believe that anything that cannot run from the bullet out of your gun has an equal right to be on this earth as you." When a hunter dispatches an animal he has expressed his superior dominance and right under the law to carry out the predatory act of game harvesting. If there was this equality of species that you speak of there would be no predator and prey. All animals would docilely eat grass and never each other. If all species were equal then if you saw a child and a dog being swept down river in danger of drowning, it wouldn’t matter which one you saved if you could only save one. Most people wouldn’t accept the choice of saving the dog over the child under some notion that both have equal right to life.
Jennifer, you continue to resist my main point. You have to reach those people that don’t otherwise accept your equality of species argument with whatever sacredness or spiritual value and human traits you see Tatanka as having. You can sing to your choir of similar thinking people or work to change minds of others with language and arguments that make sense. Regardless of this discussion Bison need advocates. The quality of that advocacy is judged in the listening ear and reading eye of non-believers that looks to make sense of the arguments offered.
I would like to try one more time to post to this issue, I've had several not go thru.
First and most important for anyone who might have thought that mad cow disease is a wildlife issue, it is not, and in fact is not even a US issue. Of the two cases in this country, at least the first was imported from Canada. I believe feed containing ground remains of cattle are thought to be responsible, and that is not used in the US as far as I know. I thought Ann was referring to CWD, and yes I did reverse letters, sorry, that seems to happen to me a lot, and I try to catch them.
If you truly believe that brucellosis is no problem, then try to get the laws changed in this country so cattle do not have to be tested for it. But to insist on running infected buffalo where they can impact private cattle is not fair. You have no investment, no loss, and no responsiblity, the ranch family has all of them, and it isn't fair to insist they take the hit so you can have your ideal dream of free roaming buffalo.
Marion, I think the argument is that Tatanka should be allowed to return and free roam in their NATIVE habitat. Since Bison are not a native species to this continent I guess we would have to ship them back to Europe and Siberia. The EU and the Russians would have to figure out what to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Bison
Comment By Ann, 2-17-07Marion,
Again like I said earlier there is about as much chance for Bison(here where I live)to transmit Brucellosis to cattle as you would getting pregnant in a swimming pool. Yes it can happen , but only under extreme circumstances and I won't draw the picture. And with you living in Wyoming you of all people should realize that it was the ELK that transmitted it to 'your' (as in third person) cattle in Wyoming as well as Idaho's. And again that was in a 'Close feed lot' type setting. So IF brucellosis Is such a threat don't you think that 'YOU' (as in third party) should eliminate all the infected animals, meaning Elk, Deer, Coyotes, and everything else that carries it.
We have NO cattle in this area until the middle of June and by that time the Bison are back in the park and not anywhere near any cattle, maybe an old Bull or two stay out but as MOST people know Bulls DO NOT transmit the disease in the first place.
If either you or Craig actually read what Jennifer and I have been saying from the beginning, (and mine without all the college degree mumbo-jumbo) We are hoping (note key word hoping) That this state (Montana) would allow for MORE Habitat OUTSIDE the park. I (being an enrolled tribal member) would hope that the Powers that be (politicians etc.) would Wake up and see that there is not a problem in my area. This action that is being taken is NO better than what happened at Wounded Knee. 'When you are not sure of something DESTROY IT'
That is not the way to fix a situation. Besides Marion this is just a question How many of the Parks Bison actually come out of the park at your end? and How many Cattle do they mingle with?
Because up here They don't. So again it is paranoia that has brought on the entire issue. (In my state anyway)
We have lost our cattle allotments up here so now we have a noxious weed issue as well as fire danger, and because of careless HUMANS that fire danger is very scay. (yes I know that Mother Nature can start em too But the BISON or the CATTLE DO NOT.
As to having the Millions of Bison of the past face it it will NEVER happen and that is NOT the point of the issue. Again the POINT IS We as Hunters and advocates want the Bison to be allowed to cross that IMAGINARY line of the park with out the threat of being 'SHOT '
AND YES WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE LAWS CHANGED. But with the "powers that be, having their heads in their built in 'bomb shelters', it's a little hard to be heard.
Craig at this point I think your 'College Education' is blinding your common sense. Pkocshuka (which means Bison in my Native tongue) Is being blamed because the Homo-Sapien is ignorant. It would be wonderful, to me, if EVERYTHING that wasn't native went back where it came from, and I'll follow you back on the ships you rode in on. GET REAL.
Comment By Craig Moore, 2-17-07Ann, I have no problem over what you have been saying. The trick is to find the free range habitat that isn't already occupied by either man, his beasts, or other wild species that call it home. Once that hurdle is crossed, to invite the sportman community to have a stake in the growth and succes of Tatanka in their new environs would be a win-win result that recognizes the other success stories. In states west of the Mississippi there have been many successful reintroductions of elk through the hunter supported organizations like the RMEF. The elk have also been brought back to Arkansas. When the advocacy message is packaged to resonate in self-interest for sportsman groups powerful allies are created and the animals thrive. With compromise, cooperation, and saleable message great things happen. If the advocacy message creates the image that Tatanka are like the untouchable sacred cattle in India, that message has limited appeal.
Comment By Craig Moore, 2-17-07Ann, my children carry Cherokee blood from their mother's side. May their father stay? Besides, like the bison my ancestors have been here for a very long time. Oh, Wisent means Bison in European. They are conspecific with their North American cousins that left the family during the Ice Age over an argument that noone remembers anymore. The usual family breakup scenario. ;)
Comment By Craig Moore, 2-17-07Correction: I should have said East of the Mississippi for the elk. Coffee has not quite kicked in.
Comment By Ann, 2-17-07Craig,
What advocacy have you talked to or read (in the last 3 years or more ) that has tried to say that they are to be 'Sacred" like the India Cattle? The BFC has in the last 10+ years changed their tactics and gotten more realistic about things, Now it's the decision makers turn.
The Pkocshuka IS SACRED to the Native people only in the way that they sustain our LIVES as in supplying; meat, shelter, weapons, armor etc. Not once have I said they shouldn't be hunted (Jen hasn't either) Just that they should be allowed to ROAM FREELY outside and across your (again third party) imaginary line.
Since we soon will NOT have cattle on the Horse Butte there will be NO MORE threat of the disease being transmitted by OUR SACRED PKOCSHUKA.
Craig Ha Ha YOU are the one that said if they should be returned(then) to their NATIVE LAND. ie. Siberia or EU, so if you want that to happen then NO their father must go too. LOL
That is why I'm saying they should be allowed to ROAM outside the Park without the threat of instant DEATH.
<~~~~~passing Craig some REAL coffee Ha Ha Ha
Ann, I hope by now you realize that I'm pulling your leg. My point is to keep your (BFC) message real and appealing to the greatest number of powerful allies that you can muster. The BFC shouldn't igore the messages from its past and from other environmental groups that create resistance rather than cooperation. Don't blame the listener or the reader --- change the mind by defining an alignment of interest that demonstrates respect.
Comment By Jennifer, 2-17-07Craig, bison are native to this land, they crossed the Bering Sea before boundary lines were drawn and while it was still frozen. Buffalo are not native, they are in Asia and Africa, and the term came over with the Europians. The bison here scientifically are Bison bison. True predator/prey relationships can be maintained with both species having equal right to be on this earth. True predators take out the weakest so the strong survive and maintainin the strong gene pool and keeping populations in check. Do you take out the weakest animal, or just project your "superior dominance"? There is a reason the government had to start giving tickets for "wasting game meat". There is a difference between ethical hunts and non-ethical. Just take a look at how the hunt has gone here, hunters leaving the animals to suffer for several hours before it dies, no respect for their surroundings or what is in the path of the bullet that doesn't even kill the animal, or hit it. OK, I did use the word "respect" when speaking of the bison. The fact that they can consciously "respect" or "disrespect", should be irrelevant. You are nitpicking. The bison will, consciously or not, continue to have a 100% symbiotic relationship to the land no matter what kind of "superior dominance" is placed on them. Too bad I can't say the same for humans.
Comment By Ann, 2-17-07Craig
Just to clarify things I AM NOT, AND HAVE NEVER BEEN a member of the BFC, but like them, I feel that the PKOCSHUKA should be allowed to cross the 'imaginary line' and graze out side the PARK. I do not believe the BFC IS ignoring anything. Like I said b4 they have changed their tactics. They 'try' to DOCUMENT what is happening, to show how absolutely ridiculous this whole mess is.
Because the PKOCSHUKA fear nothing, they are a target of fools.
If people want to eat the VERY HEALTHY meat of Pkocshuka, then they can go to Ted Turner's ranch and get a 'Blue-light' special. They will be guaranteed an animal for their money as well as help dressing them out.
These are hypothetical questions; Who, in the (place of hades) decides how many is too many?(2,000, 3,000, ?) (to be in the park) and How do they decide? Do they go in there and get an ACTUAL count or do they count legs and divide by four? (No, they fly over a small section count a few then multiply by the acres in the Park. I know this because I know someone that has been on their 'COUNT' trips)
And yes Craig I can see the 'leg-pulling' in some of your responses It's just your pullin on the leg that is already 2 1/2 inches longer than the other one. (smiling)
Jennifer, I believe you had known the difference and meant something else. I had hoped you would realize how screwed up the message received can get when the wrong language is used. And please stop taking verbal shots at fellow humans as if they were mere varmits when your advocacy is dependant on their cooperation for your success.
Here's the bottom line. My suggestion is for you and Ann to take a drive up to Missoula and stop in at the RMEF and have a conversation of possibilities with Jay Dart. What they have accomplished for elk, would be a little clue for what is possible for Tatanka. Next, I would also arrange a meeting with Ken Barret of the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partership in Missoula. I suggest doing this before any documentaries or other position papers are released or things said that are taken as an insult to livestock raisers, hunters, or fellow humans. Possibly get them to preview your releases and provide feedback before public consumption. Be careful to make every word count for creating alliances towards touching your dream. The RMEF and the TRCP both have successful televison programs and reach a large audience of the people you need to have on your side. Good luck!
I believe the cattle allotments were taken away from ranchers to try to force the buffalo into the state.
I do know that both buffalo and elk from the refuge were in contact with the cows in the last herd infected. The first one was next to an elk feedground, with a huge fence between them and no history of an elk ever crossing over or visa versa.
I am aware of the claim that bulls cannot transmit the disease, but I have not read that in actualy scientific studies, do you by chance have a link. Common sense tells me that when you have a disease of the reproductive system in both males and females of a species that it is not impossible to transmit sexually.
This argument could go on forever, and as I said before the state officials are not going to allow free roaming buffs. Wyoming does and it cost millions.
I guess I would ask if either of you would be willing to put up your homes and everything you own as collateral to be taken if it turned out a herd got infected from infected buffalo? That is what you want ranch families to be forced to do.
We cannot ever go back to the way things were when the white man came, nor when the Indian came, nor when the cave man was here, and actually I don't think we'd want to.
American Indians ran the buffs off cliffs, that may sound romantic, but how could they get far enough from the stench to rotting carcasses to breathe good?
Buffalo roam, and even if you could allow them where you are, pretty soon there would be too many and they would wander on further and further, and they would be into cattle, maybe a dairy.
Be grateful they are in Yellowstone and other places around the country so you can go see them, I don't think completely free roaming buffs would work even without disease, I can just see a herd strolling down I-90 or downtown Bozeman, maybe spread them onto Chicago, etc.
Craig
Most humans ARE varmints. They are only for themselves, they have the 'Use and Abuse' mentality, And NO I'm NOT a tree hugger either. But I do use what I need and leave no trace that I have been there. UNLIKE most 'Humans' (key word most NOT ALL).
And if you don't believe me take a drive anywhere and look at what the Humans have left behind. The road to MISSOULA is a perfect example.
As to your 'suggestion' My trip to Missoula is OUT of the question, for reasons I am not going to explain. (and are none of your business anyway)
My 'suggestion to you is, get out from behind your 'desk' and grab your Camera, come out here and see what kind of a fiasco is going on during the 'Hunt" (which you will have to wait till next season) or during the hazing operations that will soon commence and SEE what it is that Jen and I are saying is inhumane and uncalled for .
Ann, whatever. Your chosen path of confrontation, confilict, and insult plays well only to the faithful already in the church pews singing the same song.
Comment By Ann, 2-17-07Craig,
You seem to be one of the many that uses your built in bomb shelter.
You are trying to twist what I say into something that isn't even close. Since when is the Pkocshuka LIVESTOCK? Where are the Insults? if the shoe fits... The path I have chosen is the path to 'try' to keep this inhumane treatment from happening in my 'Frontyard'. And if this insults you SO BE IT .
FACT#1 There has been NO PROOF that the Pkocshuka has EVER transmitted to the Livestock.
FACT # 2 Pkocshuka are WILD animals.
FACT # 3 The DOL (department of Livestock) Mistreats these animals.
FACT # 4 Livestock are not handled in the inhumane way the DOL treats these animals.
FACT # 5 DOL, etc.(agents) Run these animals through DEEP snow while using Mororized Vehicles. (inhumane)
FACT #6 These agents condition these animals to despise People on horse back, snowmachines, & fourwheelers: RESULT Human animal conflict and injury.
FACT # 7 The agents haze these animals back across the highway towards the park KNOWING they will return. RESULT Animal automobile conflicts.
FACT # 8 The Pkocshuka ALWAYS return to the Park by the end of MAY with maybe a handfull of Non-dominant Bulls that DON"T hang out by the roadways.
FACT # 9 I love having these animals around or I would have left this area.
FACT # 10 These animals need to be allowed to have habitat outside the park. If they want to use HUNTING as a way to cull the herds. I'm not saying all over the highways and in the town of Bozeman. (although that is quite a hilarious visual)
FACT # 11 Wild Pkocshuka have NOT bred with domestic livestock in a natural setting.
FACT # 12 It can be transmitted IF the domestic animal grazes where and Infected animal has given birth Hence: Why do the authorities insist on leaving the GUT piles in the fields where that possibility could happen?
FACT # 13 There is NO livestock in this area until Early to mid JUNE after the Pkocshuka have already re-entered the PARK.
FACT# 14 This year has proven that some of these 'so-called' HUNTERS have NO respect for the animal they are hunting or the People that live here.
FACT # 15 I'll keep religion out of it.
Marion
No I do not want ranchers to lose there homes or way of life. (I come from a Ranching background remember?) I want The authorities to wake up and get out of the 1800's. When they didn't have vaccinations for the cattle industry. I beleive you(as in ranchers) have to vaccinate(by law) your hefers against this disease. Maybe this isn't a sure fire remedy. But again once the cow has aborted she is immune! Hypothetical How many cows are lost to other diseases that they don't become immune to?
After you (third person) innoculate, if you test the animal it will come back positive so should your(third person) cattle then be considered INFECTED?
Just because some one tests positive for H I V That does not mean they have AIDS.
Please Marion don't get me wrong. I understand the situation that the RANCHER has been put in, because the powers that be won't get out of the past. The money wasted on these hazing and hauling to slaughter operations would be much better spent given to the Rancher for vaccines and fencing.
The cost of a helicopter to fly over is astronomical for one trip. That cost could be sent to One Rancher and be better spent.
It does not matter if they are immune after they abort, they still have to be destroyed. You may not realize it, but the second herd that had to be destroyed were slaughter animals on a feedlot near Worland, they had ONE positive, a dry cow from the first herd. None of that mattered they had to be destroyed, that is a federal law. That is why I say you have to change federal law if you want things different.
You can say you don't want to get rid of ranchers all you want, but that will be the effect, that is why I asked if you would be willing to gamble everything you own on whether buffs could infect cows. We know they have infected them in lab settings. It is obvious you know that too and would not be willing to gamble your own life savings and home for what you want.
Craig, I had to smile when I saw the refrence to Cherokee blood. One of my dearest friends form Tuba, a Navajo, asked me one time why white people always claim Cherokee blood. I told her the only thing I could think of was that Cherokees invented the saying "make love, not war"! I do have a picture of my great grandmother to prove mine though.
Marion,
Why do 'THEY ' insist you destroy the herd, and then allow people to hunt and consume the 'affected' Bison? What is the difference here? Wouldn't you say that is a double standard? Do you think maybe it is the Law that is the problem and NOT the bison?
And no I would not gamble my home I would do the same thing some of the ranchers around here have done, change my ranching. Maybe they should get rid of the ELK Refuges to keep the concentration not so concentrated. A feedlot setting is also a very disease oriented place.
Why so many feedlots? Is it because of selling the pasture lands to developers?
The area I'm talking about is NOT a cattle producing area it's just a small summer grazing area.
Why can't the Ranchers get involved and help with trying to change the LAW? Why must the ranchers sit back and take the YOU MUST SLAUGHTER MY HERD answer?
Like I said before I've had up to 17 bison in my yard at a time with NO damage having been done and if I didn't want them in the yard I just close the gates. Then the bison stay out.
You seem to think that because I enjoy having them around that I am against the Ranching industry and that is NOT the case. I am against the ignorance that comes from people being paranoid. How many Bison get on your property and mingle with your cattle? You make it sound like if the bison are allowed to roam outside the park that they will multipy to the numbers of the past.
Why can't you (the ranchers) get involved in changing the LAW since you (the ranchers) have so much to lose? Why is it always DESTROY DESTROY DESTROY?
Why do the ranchers allow themselves to be pawns in these matters?
By the way Marion on the cherokee deal I'm with you I got quite the giggle out of it and I think you are right about the 'love not war' (grinning from ear to ear)
Ann, I think we both know that those of us in the small population states like Montana and Wyoming have pretty much no influence over national laws, and the laws regarding brucellosis are national. This is the only reservoir kept alive and thriving. So at present all ranchers and those interested in the industry can do is keep the infected animals away from the cattle.
I don't believe Montana has feed grounds. I agree that they will have to be phased out in Wyoming, but it would be a disaster to stop feeding suddenly. On top of that the Natioal Elk Refuge at Jackson is just that, run by the feds, so Wyoming really has no say, and I know there are problems even getting the animals there tested.
Ranchers have only one route open to them, keep buffalo away from the livestock.
Marion
I agree. BUT eradicating the bison isn't the answer, and slaughtering your(third person) cattle because of Brucellosis is just another way the Feds. can keep the ranchers under their thumb. It is a no win situation with you and me and because of that both the Bison and Cattle lose and the Feds. win.
I will continue to write to my Governor and complain and I will still report unethical Hunting practices and I will continue to protect these animals until it's time to toss my carcass over the fence.
Ann, your comment above directed to me about Bison being called livestock did not originate with me. It' s clear that you have a burn on and wish to fight a crusade in the field rather than sit down with others and explore possibilities for the benefit of the Bison you claim to love. It seems to me you are driven more by anger than noble desires to advocate for Tatanka. Calling your fellow humans 'varmints' is an insult. All this makes you sound like a truculent George Bush and I expect equally effective results. I'm out of this discussion, as I have no further interest in the direction it is going. You ladies carry on.
Comment By Ann, 2-17-07Craig
I know you've probably unsubscribed but here goes anyway. You have no Idea who I've talked to or for how many Years I've been talking and listening. There is just so long I will beat my head against the wall with people like yourself. And YES I am angry this battle has been going on for over Twenty years now and where have YOU been? (don't answer that cause I really don't care) But I have been in the field and seen what people like you do. So until you've worn and walked in my moccasins quit telling me what I ought to do.
What would you call child molestors if they aren't VARMENTS then what is? (Child molestor is just 1 of the many types of VARMENTS there are in the HUMAN race). And again if that is an insult tough!
For your information I am out here (in the 'field') because I take care of my Invalid Mother so she won't be put in a rest home, besides the fact I love my home. Are YOU going to come and take care of her so I could go to Missoula? I think NOT. I've been there done that. Good-bye
P.S. does the Bush comment mean your a Hillary fan? HA
Craig, I hope you are only out of that discussion and not the whole thing because I have replies for you. As far as going to the RMEF, I have a good friend who is a lifetime member. Last year, he wrote to them asking that they take a stand AGAINST the hunt. Why? Because the DOL cam out to haze bison across a frozen lake and 12 broke through, they called off the hunt for a day so they could haze them. 2 died on the spot and there has been no long term follow up on how the severe hypothermia damage affected the others. DOL is the lead agency over the hunt, does this sound fair to you? I have heard of no reply coming from RMEF in this matter. I will not be going to them for advice. Also, if you knew what I meant, and you are one of those people I am trying to reach then who do you think you are "teaching me a lesson?" I would rather that you were just playing devil's advocate and being ignorant. So, there is some more background information on what Ann and I have to deal with out here, and the silence we have been experiencing.
Marion, some scientists you can look up are Mary Meagher (pronounced Marr), Mary Meyer, and Valerius Geist. Also, there is a group of ranchers in Wyoming at least I believe who are taking a stand against entire states losing there status over one herd. Maybe you can hook up with them and try to change the laws we know are wrong, when we really pay attention to the science.