Column By Joan Opyr: Acceptable Bigotries
Gays, Mormons, and Even Gay Mormons: Mitt Romney’s Doom
By Joan Opyr, 2-28-07
I don’t like Mitt Romney. The ex-governor of Massachusetts was once pro-choice, pro-gay, and a moderate on gun control. Now he’s anti-choice, claiming that he changed his mind after learning more about stem cell research. He’s anti-gay, calling for a Constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage and, last year, he purchased a lifetime membership in the NRA. Flip-flopping? Please. If Mitt Romney were an egg, he’d be over easy.
This craven, blatant, vote grubbing hypocrisy should be reason enough to deny Mitt Romney the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, but that’s not why he won’t make the final cut. Romney’s campaign is doomed because he’s a Mormon. In recent polls, a third of all voters have said that they would not vote for a Mormon candidate. Among Republicans, the number is even higher, closer to forty percent.
It’s a shame that Mitt Romney is slicker than snake shit because I would really like to defend him. Being a Mormon should not be a barrier to being President. Membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints makes you no more or less fit to hold the nation’s highest office than being a Baptist, or a Presbyterian, or (gasp) an atheist. The President promises to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. Can a devout Mormon do that? If a devout Catholic can, then I don’t see why not. The Pope speaks ex-Cathedra on any number of issues, and Catholics are expected to believe that those statements are infallible. If John F. Kennedy was deemed able to uphold the Oath of Office, then—theoretically—there is no reason a Mormon President could not or would not do the same.
True, the Mormon Church teaches that the writings of Joseph Smith outrank the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but how does that differ from believing that the Pope speaks for God or that the Bible is inerrant? The current occupant of the Oval Office is a Methodist, a denomination that most voters seem to consider safely mainstream, and yet how often has Mr. Bush allowed his religious convictions to trump the Constitution? Anyone recall the White House Office of Faith-Based Initiatives? It serves to direct our Jewish, Quaker, Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist and agnostic tax dollars into the pockets of the likes of Pat Robertson. I have a problem with that: a big problem.
When I first moved to Idaho, I was surprised by anti-Mormon bigotry. Mormon jokes, Mormon slurs, and some truly vicious assessments of the church and its members were commonplace. What’s more, it wasn’t just the local Archie Bunkers who made free with this sort of commentary. Anti-Mormon prejudice crossed all social divides – race, class, and education. I remember objecting to a particularly nasty Mormon joke and being told that because I wasn’t from the West, I didn’t understand. The Mormons were secretive; the Mormons were cliquish. If you put one Mormon in a position of power, soon the entire department, office, or corporation would be filled with “them.”
“Ah,” I said. “The Mormons are like gay people then. If you don’t watch out, we’ll take over.”
The joker opened his mouth to form the word “yes,” but fortunately his brain caught up with his tongue. He made his red-faced excuses and headed off to lunch. As I think back, this fellow only ever went to lunch with straight men, and those straight men were all Democrats. Why didn’t that qualify as a conspiracy?
In my home state of North Carolina, Mormons were not on the political radar. Either there weren’t enough of them, or they didn’t pose a threat to the Southern Baptist hegemony. Both denominations vote overwhelmingly for Republicans, and neither Southern Baptists nor Mormons are supposed to drink alcohol.
I can’t speak for the Mormons, but in my Southern Baptist family, drinking the occasional beer is tantamount to pole dancing. I ordered a Mojito at my grandmother’s 85th birthday party, and you’d have thought I’d had a wardrobe malfunction at the Superbowl. Everyone held their breath as they watched me take that first sip; my great aunts were sure that I’d spontaneously combust. When I reminded them that I’d converted to Judaism more than a decade ago, the collective sigh of relief was audible. I’m a lesbian and a Jew; a little rum mixed with limejuice is the least of my worries.
Back to Mitt Romney. His political convictions blow with the prevailing winds. In liberal Massachusetts, he played the moderate. As he goes head to head with John McCain for the GOP Presidential nomination, Romney hasn’t swung to the right so much as taken a cliff dive. An icy cold belly-flop awaits him at the bottom, but the shame of it all is that Romney will fail because of the one thing he hasn’t changed: his religion.
It hurts to hear Mitt Romney spouting his freshly minted anti-gay rhetoric. I believe that to some extent, gays and Mormons are in the same boat. Prejudice against us is still widely acceptable. People who would never admit—at least not in public—that they’d never vote for a Catholic, or an African-American, or woman or a Jew don’t mind proclaiming loudly that they would never pull the lever for a Mormon or a lesbian.
I’m not claiming that gays and lesbians and Mormons have this boat all to ourselves. Who’s ready to vote for a Wiccan President? Or a Muslim? Or an atheist? Or someone with a disability? Who’s willing to say that they wouldn’t dream of it? That an American President must be an able-bodied straight white Protestant (or John F. Kennedy) and that no one else is worth considering? Far too many Americans, in my experience, because far too many prejudices still have public acceptance and political credence.
I am an idealist, but I am far from naïve. Bigotry in America runs deep. Gays and lesbians can now marry in Massachusetts, the same state that Mitt Romney once governed as an avowed moderate. Though he opposed same-sex marriage publicly, he did next to nothing to put a stop to it. From Boston to Provincetown, gay couples have been marrying since May 17, 2004, and civilization seems none the worse for wear. Massachusetts has not sunk into the sea; people still fight to get into Harvard; and Ted Kennedy is free to roar from the floor of the U. S. Senate.
[Note to Pat Robertson: If God really hated liberals, then surely the four-decade career of larger than life, larger than any off-the-rack suit, boozing, womanizing, passionate Ted Kennedy would have long since been over. Instead, the man seems to have gotten his second or third or maybe even fourth wind. Love him or loathe him, Kennedy is a lion among kittens, and the contrast with the weaseling Romney couldn’t be greater.]
I don’t believe that time alone will systematically eliminate our biases. True, I hear fewer anti-Mormon cracks now than when I first moved to Idaho, but perhaps that’s because people know me, and they know I’ll smack them down. As I think about it, that might be the first step. Maybe a particular bigotry dies when it’s no longer hip or expedient to give vent to it.
Are you listening, Mitt?
[End of article]Since he's flip-flopping, why doesn't he change his religious preference as well? Mitt the Southern Baptist. Then his full transformation will be complete and fundamentalists everywhere can vote for him. Glowry be! Pass the ammo and shoot a round off fer Jee-zus...anuther heretic has found the Truth!
Comment By Jeff Silverstein, 2-28-07Hey, Joan, I'm also an Ex-Mo-Jew! I think it's very unlikely that voters will get to know Mitt well enough to overcome their prejudices. There are stronger candidates in the running, and people will probably bypass the dissonance of having a Mormon president for now. It's a good opportunity for questions about Mormonism to be answered, though. Thanks for the insightful article!
Comment By Kathy Caudle, 2-28-07RE.: Mitt Romney's Doom
Feb 28th, '07
By the time it's all said and done Mitt Romney will be exposed for his pagan Mormonism than most people know. Not only is this a cult of a religion but the Mormon church is operated by sinister forces. Mitt Romney in this context is nothing more than another cog in the Mormon church's political wheel being rolled toward the white house.
Consider the Mormon church's furtive march to overthrow the white house and seat a Mormon in the Oval office which has persisted since about 1977 when Orrin Hatch was first elected to congress and his political operative ally David McConkie (who's the equivalent of Carl Rove) began lobbying and lawyering with his relative Oscar for the Mormon church. Mitt Romney, sooner or later, will discover the ruination of these people.
Eventually Mormon church member politician Bob Bennett was elected to the U.S. senate then later in the 1980s and '90s Chris Cannon and Rob Bishop both of whom also are Mormon each was elected to the House of Representatives. A few years later another Mormon church-based politician Mike Leavitt left his Utah governorship in mid-term to join his fellow Mormon church politicians already in Washington in furtherance of the Mormon church's seemingly inconspicuous advance to conquer the white hosue and seize the Oval office. Together then these seven Mormon church-rooted politicians always led by this church's main political operative--Orrin Hatch, David McConkie, Oscar McConkie, Bob Bennett, Chris Cannon, Rob Bishop, and Mike Leavitt--have slyly machinated repeatedly and maneuvered each political move to grab the white house and capture the Oval office.
The impression Mike Leavitt gave is that he secretly left his governorship in the middle of his term without explaining to the people of Utah, since he was a civil servant elected by the people and therefore was duty-bound to inform the people of his doings, was because he was to bolster the presence of the Mormon church through its representatives in Washington all who are aforenamed and who operate in the guise of elected senators and representatives. So devious was Mike Leavitt when he left his governorship he never even informed the local Mormon-controlled news media.
Other examples exist to show why throughout his campaign Mitt Romney must be challenged to explain his Mormonism. Not only is this important because the Mormon church leaders like its president Gordon Hinckley routinely inflicts religious persecution on dissenters of Mormonism and non-Mormons alike but crucially because since it's Utah's dissenters of Mormonism and non-Mormons specifically who suffer molestation by the Mormon church by its leaders such as this church's president Gordon Hinckley et al this shows that Americans everywhere else also will be made to endure afflictions for their non-Mormon religious differences by the Mormon church and its iron-fisted leaders such as the one aforenamed but also by its operative lawyers like David McConkie.
Like a tyrant David McConkie bullies his way into situations in the name of the Mormon church and its leaders like its president Gordon Hinckley et al and overthrows the old order of whatever this happens to be and replaces this with a Mormon church-centered command. The hardened attitudes of with which David McConkie et al acts and omits acting for the Mormon church and its leaders like its president Gordon Hinckley in Utah foretells similar prejudiced mindsets that will operate to extract similar circumstances everywhere else throughout America if Mormon Mitt Romney becomes president.
Bonds of Obligation
Creating bonds of obligation with people like presidential candidate Mitt Romney by extending favors such as giving him money to finance his campaign is the way the Mormon church and its leaders like its president Gordon Hinckley acting through the Mormon church's operative lawyers like David McConkie latch onto someone like Mitt Romney because he's running for president. Then once the candidate like Mitt Romney is in office those like David McConkie, who always invokes the name of the Mormon church, "calls in the favors."
The Likelihoods Of A Mormon Mitt Romney Presidency
This means the likelihood exists very great that [an]other[s] will suffer similar prejudicial religious treatment because of their deistic differences, to Mormonism, if Mitt Romney is elected president which will unceasingly be perpetuated at the hands of the Mormon chuch's political operative David McConkie. This is especially true since the Mormon church persecutes those who dissent and otherwise don't subscribe to Mormonism.
The Secular Crossroads Plaza And Mormon Church-Owned ZCMI Centre Mall
The commercial matter between the secular Crossroads Plaza (mall) and Mormon church-owned ZCMI Centre Mall (ZCMI means Zion's Corporate Mercantile Industries) emphasizes the wrongful mixing of the Mormon church with the commerce as a function of the state. Located across Main Street from each other in downtown Salt Lake City these two malls co-existed and prospered peacefully.
Then the Mormon church and its leaders such as Gordon Hinckley along with its operative lawyer like David McConkie wanted to buy the Crossroads Plaza. But those retail merchants who comprised the consortium that owned and operated the Crossroads Plaza, the Downtown Business Alliance, didn't want to sell.
Destabilization resulted, of the retail shops in the Crossroads Plaza, which not only adversely impacted the shop keepers but also consumers. One place of business after another opened then closed within months--everything from big retail franchises to independent shops and even restaurants--as part of the Mormon church's desire to possess the Crossroads Plaza and its property. Within a year and a half the Crossroads Plaza was closed.
Not so, the Mormon church-owned ZCMI Centre Mall. It remained open and these Mormon church-oriented shops--like Deseret Books and Dressed In White--continued operating. Many months passed of this Mormon church-owned mall staying in business long after the Mormon church hierarchy such as its president Gordon Hinckley through this church's operative lawyer David McConkie et al bought out and closed the Crossroads Plaza which always had been known as "the people's mall."
Mormon Mixing of the Church With the State
Though there's nothing good about public aid the fact remains in Utah the Mormons mix the Mormon church with the state and this is effectuated in one out of every two situations in the Beehive state--whether the circumstances involve business, education, churches of other religions, and/or governance at all levels--and this will be stepped up to the federal government if Mitt Romney is president. For instance the Mormon church bishop-verification requirement of state welfare applicants before they can qualify for assistance such as food stamps, which is practiced shamelessly in Utah, will be widened to include all the states plus the District of Columbia which will especially apply to those states that share a historical relationship with the Mormon church if Mitt Romney is made president.
All this evidences the Mormon church's plans to establish a theosophy and rule through a Mormon Mitt Romney presidency. Such also demonstrates the real need for Mitt Romney NOT to bae supported in his bid for the white house. He's got the Mormon church and all its political operatives like David McConkie in addition to this church's leaders like its president Gordon Hinckley trailing behind him and, to be sure, Mitt Romney will give all of them a "place at the table" because this is what they want.
Kathy Caudle
Salt Lake City, UT
Sweet Jesus, just when I thought the fundies were out to git me...I find out it's really the sinster Mormon mafia that's really out to git me!!!! Thank you Sister Kathy fer bringin' this important information to light (and up your meds...your paranoia is showing...BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!).
Comment By ashot, 3-01-07Woman, you are an absolute imbecile.
Comment By Geo, 3-01-07Kathy:
Seriously, do you buy into the Mormon conspiracy or are you making it up for entertainment purposes. C'mon, just put a :) at the end of your post so we know!
Dear KOO KOO
You are an idiot. To say that Mormons put Joseph Smiths teachings above the constitution shows what an ignorant clown you are. The Mormons believe the constitution and the founding fathers were inspired by God, you dufus. Read the lds articles of faith pertaining to obeying, honoring, and sustaining the laws of the land. Someone as stupid and un-educated as yourself should not be allowed to play with pens, pencils, or keyboards. We have a nice padded room for you down here in Provo, I suggest you check yourself in and then shut your pie hole.
cj
Methinks Kathy has it in for David McConkie, and should check into a rehab center. If she were a practicing Mormon, that wouldn't be necessary!
Comment By Why Not Mitt the Baptist?, 3-01-07But despite Sister Kathy's sermon-ette, this is to some degree how the Religious Right thinks of Mormons. They call them a cult. They call them heretics. You might say, "they love the Mormon, but hate the heresy". And some of their favorite Scripture-quotin' is from Galatians 1:8,9 (But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.) So that brings us back to the heretic, Mitt, and his bid to run in the Republican primaries which are heavily dominated by the Religious Right. If he really wants to be Prez, all he needs to do in the eyes of the Religious Right is to become a Fundamentalist Christian. That's the only answer Mitt. Just one more flip-flop and you'll likely be on your way to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. (NOTE: You can always flip-flop back to Mormonism 8 years later...no harm, no foul).
Comment By Corey, 3-01-07I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I've studied the church, served a mission, and I actively participate in church events. Even so, I am a liberal thinker and I enjoyed this article and the interesting points that were made. However, there is one point that I feel I must contribute and have added to this discussion in reference to the following:
"True, the Mormon Church teaches that the writings of Joseph Smith outrank the Constitution and the Bill of Rights..."
This is true to a certain degree. However, what needs to be made known is that the church also teaches that its members are to be subjects to the government and fall in compliance with the law of the land. Granted, the past incarnations of the church have not had the greatest track record in doing so (IE: Polygamy), but that is a debate all unto its own. The current incarnation of the Mormon Church cannot be held responsible for the actions of past incarnations. Article 12 of Joseph Smith’s “Articles of Faith” reads:
“We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”
As already stated, the church does believe, to a certain degree, that a commandment from God trumps that of any man-mad law. Mormons believe that the American continent is a land established by God to be “choice above all others” (BOM, 2Nephi 1:5), and “free of bondage and captivity from all other nations” (BOM, Ether 2:12). If the promise of freedom from bondage and captivity comes at the expense of being obedient to the word of God which decrees that we are to be subject to presidents and sustaining the law, then how does the word of God completely trump the United States Constitution?
In my own mind, I believe that Mormons should take this line of reasoning when picking a presidential candidate to vote for. The church does not officially endorse any candidate in any political race, but the members of the church sure do. In my Ward of the Church I have already seen one member accuse another of not being “as Mormon” as they are for not supporting Mitt Romney.
Again, with this in mind, I thank you for your article.
I've never heard of these "incarnations" of the LDS church. I don't think Corey is LDS like he says. He quotes scriptures real good, though.
Comment By T, 3-01-07This fellows's "FLIP-FLOPS" makes John Kerry appear to wear COMBAT BOOTS.
The transformation of Sammy Glick"? Or what makes Rumney Run?
"anti-choice"? -- are you sure that's an accurate description of Romney's position?
Comment By john f., 3-01-07Actually, Latter-day Saints give the U.S. Constitution quasi-scriptural status. That is far more than American Evangelicals or Catholics give it.
Comment By John J, 3-01-07Kathy makes all these acusations but doesn't back them up with facts. I think we need to inform the mormon mafia attack machine about her, ha!
Anyway, the LDS church deems the constitution as holy writ, and you can read in that same section of D&C;where it says that religion and government shouldn't be mixed.
I'd have no problem electing a Mormon for president (assuming said Mormon is a progressive of the sort Romney used to be).
But as you say, Romney's egregious political pandering will kill his candidacy. He's Exhibit A of someone saying and doing anything to get elected. It's shameful, and Americans are seeing right through it.
Thanks to Corey for clarifying a point I made rather haphazardly about the relationship between the LDS Church and the Constitution. Corey cites Article 12 of Joseph Smith’s Articles of Faith:
“We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”
This is important. The wild fear of Mormons (as exemplified in Kathy's post) is what this article is about. I would ask Mormon Republicans s exactly what I ask Log Cabin Republicans: what has the GOP done for you lately? Why would you want to be in a club that demonizes you out of sheer ignorance (Kathy again) or for political gain? Where is the percentage in that?
Probably one of the more interesting things in Joan's article is that among Republicans, the anti-Mormon sentiment appears higher than among the general voting population. That, I think, is predictable in a political party that is mostly dependent on the evangelical wing of the Christian movement for its voting base. The problem all along has been that there are hundreds of varieties of Christianity in this great country and to expect Christians (whether Mormon, Presbyterian or Baptist) to vote as one block in perpetuity is, well, ignorant. One reason we don't have prayer in school...whose prayer? There are, and always have been, deep and angry divisions of belief and doctrine within the Christian religion. Romney's religion matters less to me than his naked groveling for the evangelical vote...the very people who claim Mormons aren't Christian. Pathetic. Such pandering leaves voters completely in the dark about how this man would govern.
Comment By peter, 3-01-07Mitt has never been pro-gay. He just hasn't been anti-gay. His stance has always been, they have thier rights and shouldn't be persecuted, but he has always opposed gay marriage and stopped gays from outside mass. from getting married there. the legislature overrode his veto against gay marriage. Also, he has never been pro-choice; he's just been moderate on the issue. He promised not to change mass laws on it and kept that promise. people who label him a flip-flopper need to do more research. what he did do was erase a nasty deficit and put in its place a surplus. If amaerica needs anyone right now its a guy who can say no to spending. I think "moral" issues aren't as important as policy and economics. Mitt has a proven record when it comes to fiscal matters and health care. And those matter a lot more in my opinion than stances on gay marriage and abortion.
Comment By Why Not Mitt the Baptist?, 3-01-07If Mormons want a good snap-shot of how fundamentalist "Christians" feel about them (besides Sis. Kathy's Rant 'n Rave, posted above), go to Google and type in "ex-Mormon". You should get OVER 99K hits of websites, many authored or maintained by fundies to help convert them to their sick version of Christianity. Since the fundamentalist movement is a big wing of the Republican Party, why do Mormons (like Log Cabin Republicans) want to get berated and kicked around so badly? They say they love you, but just hate what you do (or believe in). I would say it's time to 'cut bait' and consider a new political home.
Comment By Brent, 3-01-07If this were a discussion about a race, ethnicity, or any of a multitude of other "classifications" it would be called hate speach and prosecuted. Talk about prejudice and double standards. It's a slap against Mormons and then an overt ploy to cozy up to them to say that Mormons and gays are in the same boat -- people are prejudice against both. And to state that Ted Kennedy is a lion compared to Mitt Romney ... sorry, I'll take Mitt Romney anytime over Ted for any of a number of reasons, including integrity.
Comment By Grumpy Old Guy, 3-01-07I see no more reason to fear a Mormon as President than I do anyone else who accepts as "faith" the teachings described as either a religion or a theology. If folks can't think for themselves then they aren't going to be any better than any of the other old white guys who've been in the office. After all, if the current occupant of the White House were able to think for himself we'd be in a lot less of a mess than we are.
Comment By Steven, 3-02-07Many of these accusations of "flip-flopping" are distortions of truth! Mitt has not changed his position on gays and gay rights much at all. He's always been for protecting all citizen's, including gay people's, rights. And at the same time, he's always been against same-sex marriage. See, you must understand--gays have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to marry someone of the opposite gender than anyone else in the United States!
In addition, one must realize that any wise person over time and in different situations will change his position on certain issues, since over 12 years, the world changes. Over 12 years, we all individually change, have new experiences. A man may go from being a senator to a governor, to being President of the United States-- all these being different in nature, being a governing position over a different group of people, so one's oppinion of how things should be in these different situations SHOULD be different!
You see, Mitt hasn't taken a hard stance against abortion or gays. To the fundamentalists that are controlling a significant portion of the American vote, that means he's FOR abortion and gays. There are no shades between black and white, good and evil, right and wrong. They refute relativism and adopt absolutes as a mode of thinking. Since Mitt isn't a fundamentalist on these issues, he must be a liberal to them. It's not that hard to understand.
Comment By Trudy L., 3-02-07Aren't you predicting doom a little early? It is about a year and a half away to election. A lot of things can happen in that time. I will bet that the membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) increases and many people will get to really understand the Mormons. The Catholics were a lot different before Martin Luther, too. And who knows? We could have a Mormon President next because many people are tolerant of other religions.
Comment By T, 3-02-07If only the COJCOLDS would sell MAGIC UNDERWEAR in Wal-Marts!
Americans' Views of the Mormon Religion-Gallup Poll
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=26758&pg=1
Here's Mitt endorsing a speaker who did a whole lot of gay bashing today.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/02/coulter-edwards/
The comparison you strive to make Joan is a bit tortured. But it was well done torture. Personally I grew up as a non-Mormon in the upper Snake River Valley. I still try to come to terms with the ostracism and sometimes hostile way me and other non-Mormons were treated and wonder if I've become bigoted towards them as a result. But I was treated similarly when I tried to join a group of lesbians at the invitation of one of them at a table at a local pub. I don't feel bigotry towards gays as a result, just a little cautious. I suppose we all find intolerance in many insular groups when they are in the group. With gays I find it to be rare. With Mormons I found it common place. But probably because I don't see groups of gay folks too often.
Another difference is I think because Mormons believe their's is the only way and actively and aggressively proseletyze even engaging in posthumous baptism which I find quite arrogant and contrary to the concept of free will. I rarely see gays trying to convert members to their team. I suppose the victims of bigotry will depend on who is in the minority in any given situation like I was in when living in SE Idaho. I guess what I'm saying is that the root of the bigotry against both groups is quite different. Gays won't rule the world but the Mormons sure seem to want to and I have a hard time defending tolerance towards a group that engages in its own forms of intolerance. But like I say I'm still coming to terms with my bias. I feel the same way about evangelicals and I've never lived in an area where they constitute the majority. I guess I just won't tolerate intolerance. I very much enjoyed your article Joan. You write well.
http://www.cqpolitics.com/2007/03/giuliani_gains_traction_from_c.html. From the article: Guilani is significantly ahead in Republican polling while the Heretic Romney is still in the single digits and slipping. The article says: "The Fox News poll indicated that 69 percent feel the United States is ready to elect a black president; 60 percent said the same of a woman president, but only 40 percent feel the country is ready for a Mormon president." Sorry heretics. You need to become any kind of Christian, even Catholic, to get elected. How 'bout it Mitt...interested in becoming a Fundamentalist Christian? You can change! There is no Mormon gene! It's the CHOICE between right and wrong!
Comment By bikeboy, 3-03-07Original poster is obviously MUCH more tolerant of the dreaded Mormons than many of the commentors. And, I s'pose that was a large part of the point she was making.
For those who are convinced that a President Mitt would just be a puppet, with the Mormon Mafia pulling the strings... consider Harry Reid. (For those who aren't "into" politics, he's the Democrat Senate Majority Leader.) He claims to be an active, practicing Mormon. Are the SLC gangsters pulling HIS strings, too? Or is he just a decoy to throw us off the trail?
(-;
Have a great day, everybody!
I grew up mormon as well, and I am gay, and I think that the Mormon church is just like every other mainstream christian religion. Everyone is spoon fed what to believe, and it gives answers to people for things that are unexplainable, therefore people are attracted to it and have a love for it. Does not make it truth, In fact I think it is utter rubbish, Meanwhile all these High ranking church officials are supposedly men of god, when really they are just business men making their mark. Secret society? Maybe.. do I care? No. But they definetely get 10 percent of their followers money free of charge and no taxes. I think they should tax the mormon church, they are not evil, but they push their agenda, and they do it with money. They put so much money into anti gay marriage in hawaii and alaska.. Its ridiculous, Untrue, and a bunch of crap. Frankly the mormons are cliquish, and because of them I have grown up hating myself. When you are born into something you don't know anything else, until u educate yourself, then you can see things for what they are. Crap. Boise has its share of mormons, And seeing people with Utah plates makes me want to cringe.. Bottom Line, do what you're gonna do.. believe what you want.. but be honest and open .. there isn't any other way to be.. unless you have something to hide.. and the mormon church hides alot...
Peace
The Mormon Church is a prime example of how this country works and operates. In general the areas that tend to be church going god fearing people, are the most uneducated areas of the country. Why you ask? Well, education is freedom, freedom to find truth. It isn't surprising, that in Mass. Where some of the Most educated people and best institutions of the world are, tends to be the most liberal area of the country. Liberal in the Mormon empire (mountain west) is deemed as a bad term. Because liberals question authority, and customs and traditions. Religions do not want their subjects to be educated in worldly ways, because they see that the religion is a bubble. It becomes a safe haven offering answers to everything. And when there is anything that is unanswerable, it is a sin and stay away from it.
The Mormon Church is the BEST example of this..
Most mormon's I have met are the sweetest nicest people in the world, in fact.. they mean well, but when speaking of the church as a whole, I think it is no better than the Vatican. Its downright evil. If there is a god and this all pans out in an afterlife.. I hope these high up religious figures burn in hell. They take and take and take... and make millions.. and all they do is feed the hungry lies and stories.. You people suck!
I would never pick Mitt! Being black, white, man, or woman is just the way you're born and you can't choose what you are. But Mormonism is a choice. I won't ever talk bad about what people are, but I will chop down bad choices! I don't want a bad decision maker running this country that I served 4 years in the Marine Corp with. Anyone who believes that Lehi sailed over here 600B.C. and the lame story of the Lamanites and Nephites is brain washed and making a bad choice. The whole BOM story is totally fictional. My father was a Meso-American Anthropologist, and spent most of his life traveling through Mexico and Central America. Mormons take on the history of the Americas is pure laughter to him and everyone else in this country. STOP knocking on our doors, spreading your JUNK, we don't want it! Hundreds of thousands of people NEVER died at the battle of Hill Cumorah. Joey Smitty and Bang'em Young are slime of American History!
Comment By jim, 6-05-07you are one weird chick.do anything else other than poking keys on a computer.you seem to have no sence of history
Comment By proud mormon, 8-13-07your stupid... you don't even know the mormon beliefs.. you want to know.. don't ask your preacher... ask a freaking mormon
Comment By Curtis, 8-25-07Just a quick note to the person who wrote: "This fellows's 'FLIP-FLOPS' makes John Kerry appear to wear COMBAT BOOTS.' "
How can I put this? Oh yeah, John Kerry did wear combat boots.
Just an FYI- JFK suffered throughout his presidency from an old war injury and FDR was in a wheelchair. As far as you able bodied theory, it doesn't work in these cases.
Comment By Debbie B., 12-07-07I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I get tired of people confusing us with some of the "Breakaway" churches. A breakaway church is a church wich was formed from parts of another church. For example The Lutheran Church is a breakaway from the Catholics church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints is the only one. The Fundamentalists church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is a breakaway, The reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is another breakaway, etc etc.The difference between our church and breakaways and others such as the Lutheran church is that the breakaways want to be associated with us, they want people to mix us up. Nobody confuses catholics with Lutherans because the names are so different. we don't believe in multiple wives and haven't for 118 years! Nobody can be a member and have multiple wives! Hello! Does anyone even want the truth? Does anyone even care about the original reason for Polygamy or the fact that other religions were poligamists too. Back in the day when 100 men went off to war and only a few came back, the women and children were faced with starvation and even death.They had no way to support themselves. Poligamy saved many lives because these women were then taken in by the men, wives and yes they married them. When the war was over the revelation was received that poligamy will be no more. This is when the breakaway churches started. The Breakaway churches call them selves Mormons, pretty confusing huh. Even though we aren't supposed to Judge I think that guy that claimed to be a prophet and was sleeping with young girls is a complete psycho!!! Please don't affiliate him with us-yuk! I will just remind you all there is only one true and living prophet and his name is Gordon B Hinckley. There will be many false prophets as we have read in the bible but Gordon B. Hinckley is the one and only true living prophet and as you know by the scriptures there can only be one on the earth at once. That is why Larry King introduces him as The Prophet of the World when he has had him on his show. If you want the truth about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints go to our website LDS.org and you can study all you want. One thing I notice with other religions is that they slam the Latter Day Saints but you won't find that on our official site. We are too busy teaching wonderful stories and focusing on Christ and how to bring people to him. You can't bring people to Christ if you are slamming others like Mitt Romney. I think he will make a great president and I'm very confident that he will be the next president of the United States. Let's try to follow the Saviors example and judge not. I figure people who slam other churches either have no life or are very bitter and hateful. I've never seen Mitt Romney be hateful or bitter but you all are, and then you claim to be better than him??????? I am so confused. Yes we believe in Jesus Christ and that he is our Savior. We believe that God sent his only begotten son and that they are seperate beings. We believe that Jesus was and is Lord and a God himself and also was mortal man too. So when it says in the bible that Jesus sits on the right hand of God we actually picture exactly that, 2 persons- Jesus being on the right. The nicene creed was thought up 150 years after Jesus died. A group of religous leaders got together and decided Jesus was the same person as God. They took this from the scriptures: "When you have seen me you have seen the father", and "The father and I are one". 2 people disagreed with the nicene creed and were excommunicated from the church(not sure wich one)I perceive those scriptures as Jesus saying when I tell you something it is coming from the Father and also we are one in purpose. All throughout the bible Jesus prays to his Father in Heaven and makes it known that they are seperate. Was he praying to himself in Gethsemane? Did he talk to himself while on the cross? Anyway, now you know why we aren't considered Christians because we don't believe in the nicene creed which was made after Christs death. The 400 million protestants believe that God and Jesus are the same person. So if you are protestant then decide for yourself, God split himself in two and came to the earth, or God sent his only begotten son. Hmmmm What does the bible say??? Let's read John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt amoung us, (and we beheld his glory the glory as of the only begotten of the father) full of grace and truth. You know what is wierd is that all through the beginning of the bible it says so and so begot so and so etc., but when talking about the Savior somehow God changed his style of writing and decided all of the sudden that begot meant something totally different. Anyway decide from what I've said what you would like to do. You are always welcome at any Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints on any Sunday for church and for any activity. If you would like to receive a free copy of the Book of Mormon or want to know where in the bible it talks about the book of Mormon coming forth then just go to LDS.org and call the 1800 #
God Bless you all,
Deb
Who cares? There are 50 million uninsured and a horrible war that needs to end. Hillary is the answer.
Comment By billy blood atonement, 1-18-08mormonism is made up -- no serious objective religious thinker has ever concluded otherwise
people choose to be mormon (or choose to remain mormon after they beocme adults)
not liking mormonism or not voting for someone because they're mormon is like not voting for someone because the are for pre-emtive war or tax cuts for the wealthy, etc.
ITS A CHOICE THEY MAKE to belive in proveable non-sense
Its ALSO a perfectly resonable choce to make to not support them politically and to fight (figuratively) them socially
Kathy, You obviously have mental problems. I'm sure you need to see a doctor, or two.
This article was printed from www.newwest.net at the following URL: http://www.newwest.net/city/article/gays_mormons_and_even_gay_mormons_mitt_romneys_doom/C108/L108/