An Interview with “Lazy Environmentalist” Josh Dorfman

By Jenny Shank, 7-02-07

The title of Josh Dorfman’s new guide to environmentally aware products, The Lazy Environmentalist, appealed to me immediately because it seemed to encapsulate my approach to environmentalism.  I tried to start a compost pile recently and it didn’t go well; I failed to stir it and incorporate enough dirt and every time I visit it I am attacked by seething swarms of fruit flies.  Luckily Dorfman has a product recommendation to solve my problem (see below).  In 2003, Dorfman founded Vivavi, a company that provides stylish furniture built with the sustainable materials, and soon thereafter launched his guide to finding green-built homes and materials, Modern Green Living.  He also hosts the daily “Lazy Environmentalist” show on Sirius Satellite Radio.  I recently interviewed Josh Dorfman via email about his lazy ways, some solutions to a few environmental dilemmas, and how environmental “gloom-and-doom is a really lousy marketing campaign.”

New West: How did you first become interested in the environmentally conscious products that you write about in The Lazy Environmentalist?

Josh Dorfman: I worked in China in the mid-1990’s, where I traveled around the country selling bicycle locks for a company called Kryptonite. I saw a country transforming from a billion bicyclists toward a billion car drivers. I’m not sure that the planet’s ecosystems can handle the pollution from another billion cars on the road. So I started thinking that we all need to be presented with better product choices that enables us to maintain the way of life to which we’re accustomed without overtaxing the planet’s ability to sustain it.

NW: Do you find yourself thinking about the environmental impact of everything you do, from flushing the toilet to turning on the light in a room?

JD: Yes, but I don’t find myself always doing something about it because I’m somewhat lazy. That’s why I seek out products that make environmental choices easy. Because if they work for me, I think they’ll work for others too.

NW: What is the laziest thing you’ve ever done in the name of the environment?

JD: I switched over to 100% wind power for my apartment by checking a few boxes and making a few mouse clicks on the website of my power utility. If you go to www.epa.gov/greenpower you’ll find 600 power utilities throughout the U.S. that make getting clean, green energy in your home a snap. It only costs me about $6 more per month for my apartment, but now every time I sit on my couch and turn on the TV I get to derive tremendous satisfaction from the fact that the TV is running on wind power.

NW: The bio on your website describes you as “not your typical environmental activist.” Do you have much interaction with more “typical” environmental activists?  What do you think Julia Butterfly Hill, for example (the woman who sits in trees), would think of your approach?  Are you all on the same side, or are there environmentalists who take exception to your approach?

JD: I’m not sure what she would think, but I think she’s sexy, and I like that she always dresses in black. I believe we’re all on the same side though there are people in the environmental community who take exception to my approach. I’m simply suggesting that since we all consume products every single day, we can use that power to effect positive environmental change by making better decisions. And fortunately, the green product choices have gotten so much better that it’s really pretty easy to start leading a green lifestyle on a daily basis. There is a portion of the environmental movement, however, that seems more concerned with being “right” than with being effective. I don’t think those folks are particularly fond of me.

NW: You seem to be upbeat, not as doom-gloom as some environmentalists.  Do you think that a more positive attitude toward the problem of living in an environmentally conscious way will better attract people who normally wouldn’t think about these things?

JD: Yes because gloom-and-doom is a really lousy marketing campaign. I want people to get excited about going green and they should because what could be cooler than an automatic composter from Naturemill that comes in a compact, sleek, silver case, sits inconspicuously on your kitchen floor, doesn’t smell bad, and does the job for you? People get excited about that kind of innovation because it lets them be part of the solution without having to change how they live. In fact, it improves how they live.

NW: It seems like in many cases, the product option that is better for the environment is more expensive.  Have you come across any examples where the environmental option is cheaper?

JD: Check out Method cleaning products. They’re non-toxic, biodegradable and packaged in the best looking cleaning bottles ever. They’re also sold at Target and they’re inexpensive. Or look at Terracycle organic plant food that is extremely potent and very cheap. It happens to come from worm poop and be packaged in reused 20 oz. soda bottles. It’s available at Home Depot. Walmart is selling 100% organically grown, 300-thread-count cotton sheet sets for less than $40. There are quite a few options available.

NW: I’ve found that it’s sometimes difficult to weigh the environmental impact of a choice, especially when it’s coupled with financial considerations.  For example, in Colorado we have water shortages, so it has been suggested that choosing disposable diapers is better than cloth because of all the water it takes to wash them.  You recommend gDiapers, which have a cloth and flushable insert combo, but they are more expensive than disposables (can you tell I have a baby?).  How do you take into account all of this stuff?  Do you just do the best you can?

JD: We’re just at the beginning of a very exciting phase where more and more eco-friendly choices are going to become available to really push our economy in a green direction and start to solve our environmental challenges. In the interim, I suggest you do what you can. I’d also suggest that gDiapers are really cute and that you’re baby will be stylin’ in them. That’s important to a lot of parents.

NW: Do you forsee a time when environmentally conscious products will be made available for people of all income levels?  (For now, it seems these products mostly cater to people with higher incomes.)

JD: Yes, and I think it’s coming very quickly. When I started Vivavi in 2003 there were very few environmentally conscious products available that had any sense of style. Few people at the time could have conceived that you could use “stylish” and “eco-friendly” in the same sentence without it being the butt of a joke. Four years later we’re talking about hundreds and hundreds of stylish, well-conceived, eco-friendly products and services. It’s happened unbelievably quickly. The next few years is going to see the pace of eco-friendly product innovation accelerate, and we all will benefit as a result.

NW: Your book includes a chapter on “Death and Dying.” Have you discussed planning an eco-burial with your family members?  Is this a conversation that you encourage people to have?

JD: No, I haven’t and I’m not anticipating the need to do so anytime soon. But when the time is appropriate I will. Choosing an eco-friendly burial requires as much forethought as choosing a conventional burial. No more, no less. That’s really the point. We don’t have to change how we live or in this case, how we die, just to do right by the planet. That’s a good thing because it means that more of us are going to be willing to make these kinds of decisions once we know about them.

NW: A critic for the Nashville Scene said of your book, “…this is a book for people determined to miss the real point: that voracious consumerism is part of what got us into this mess to begin with.” How do you respond to that?

JD: I think it’s irrelevant. The reality is that we consume products everyday. This is not going to change anytime soon. So we have to find more environmentally conscious ways to consume if we want to maintain our quality of lives and not see them degraded by climate change currently resulting directly from our consumption. However, the solutions have to fit our lifestyles or the great majority of us won’t even consider them. For example, millions of people in this country drive SUVs. Now you could demand that all SUV drivers give up their SUVs and walk to the supermarket. But it’s irrelevant because it will never happen. You could demand that they buy compact cars. Some might. Most probably will just call you a Communist and turn up the TV volume. So how do you reach those “voracious consumers?” I think you talk to them about Hybrid SUVs like the Ford Hybrid Explorer that gets 34 miles per gallon and will save them money at the pump. If you want to effect positive change, start appealing to people’s enlightened self-interest. We’re still very much in the what’s-in-it-for-me phase of environmental awareness.

NW: Is there anything you do that is bad for the environment, but you just don’t want to give up?  For example, I have always relished a good, long shower.

JD: Yes, I take very long showers because it’s where I do my best thinking. I installed an Oxygenics low-flow showerhead to mitigate the damage. I also like to crank the A/C at night to keep my bedroom very cool. I rely upon an Energy Star rated air conditioner that uses less energy. There are product solutions that can help all of us with our environmental shortcomings.

NW: Packaging is what seems to produce the most waste in my household—things that can’t be composted or recycled, like plastic takeout boxes, or the plastic that just about everything comes in.  Have you come across any solutions to this dilemma?

JD: One of my favorite companies is RecycleBank. Starting with communities in Philadelphia, PA and Wilmington, Delaware, ReycleBank provides homes with a barcoded garbage container into which all trash recyclables can be thrown. No separation necessary. It’s then picked up by a garbage truck that scans and computes the contents of your garbage and awards you RecycleBank dollars for the amount you’ve recycled. To view how much you’ve earned, you log on to RecycleBank.com. You can then redeem those dollars at participating retailers like Starbucks, Whole Foods, Timberland, and Patagonia. It’s the recycling solution that not only simplifies, but actually pays you to do the right thing.

NW: Does it seem to you that there has been a sea change in the average American’s attitude toward the environment lately?  Global warming seems to be presented more and more as a scientific reality rather than merely as a theory.  Or is this just a change in the media’s storyline that hasn’t yet entered most people’s day-to-day thoughts?

JD: I think that we’re starting to reach a consensus in this country that Global Warming is real. But I also think that many people who acknowledge the reality of Global Warming still hope that it will just somehow go away. As a nation, we don’t really want to deal with it. We have neither the political leadership nor the political will, which is why I think that for now the environmental solutions presented have to be both effective and painless. So it’s precisely these kinds of solutions which I write about in my book.

Josh Dorfman’s radio show, “The Lazy Environmentalist,” airs every day on Lime Radio (on the Sirius Satellite Channel 114).