By Nick Gier, New West Unfiltered 9-28-07
Near where I live is a mosque. Around back and visible from the street is a sign over the basement door that states, "Women's Entrance." That cultural heritage began almost 2000 years ago and continues today right here in the USA. In addition to the great scientific discoveries that come from the Middle East there is also this heritage that I am not too crazy about when it affects women like my mother, wife, and daughter.
Comment By Manavendra, 9-29-07How did the Muslims decline since their peak in the middle ages?
Comment By sweed7, 9-29-07I like: Death to infidels! Heaven with twenty-one virgins. (veiled who enter heaven thru the back door and have no say in the matter)
Comment By mike, 9-29-07I hear the local boys singing their favorite Christmas carol, "Jingo Bells, Jingo Bells, Jingo all the way!"
Comment By Hal Herring, 9-30-07Fascinating article, Mr. Gier. Of particular interst are the many inventions of genius - in the back of our minds, we Westerners know that, for example, Baghdad was the seat of mathematical learning for centuries. But I have the same question as Manvendra, above.
What caused the decline? Why the rise of theocracies that shun intellectual knowledge and science? What about the proud descendants of these inventors- we recognize, when we meet them here in our country, or read about their work and lives in the Middle East, that they still have this level of intelligence, regard for knowledge, and a greater level of sophistication and cosmopolitanism (is that a word?) than most of us here. There seems to be no decline, on the level of the individuals. But speaking in the sense of a civilization, they seem to be in profound and even mortal crisis. Is Islam to blame? The corrupting influence of petroleum and petro politics? Do civilizations, like fruit, simply go bad after a time? Are there lessons for us in this seeming crisis in Arab civilization?
One reason I thought to ask this was that I was reading about Senator Brownback's visit to Wyoming in New West's lead story. Brownback is almost certainly a potential theocrat, and one who has no difficulty marrying the interests of global corporations with the seemingly contradictory tenets of his much-professed Christianity. I read his statements, marvel at his prominence, and wonder if a descent into fundamentalist disfunction may not be part of our future as well.
Hal
I'd like to add that I reject the comparison between Islam and bin Laden and Christianity and the Aryan Nations. The percentage of Christians who support the Aryan Nations must be a million fold less than the percentage of Muslims who support jihad against us infidels. Such a comparison is inflammatory and incorrect.
I support the idea behind your article. However, it is beyond time that the Muslim citizens you describe, and their counterparts throughout their religion, renounce and work to destroy those among them who murder innocent people in the name of Allah. Put very basically, it is past time for Muslims, with such a rich history, with so many gifts, to clean their own house.
Until I see some evidence of that happening, I cannot know for sure how many of these good folks might be contemplating jihad as proscribed by the Koran. While I might remain awed by their past accomplishments, my awe will be dimmed by my mistrust and worry that they will do something horrific to my country in the name of their faith.
I don't think my mistrust means that I am a bigot, either. If Christians or members of any other group were flying planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in pizza restaurants at the dinner rush, etc, etc etc., I'd say the same thing.
Hal
Hal, I think part of the decline, in the 20th century at least, can be traced to choices made in both World Wars. During WWI the remnants of the Ottomans allied with the Germans and engaged in their own ethnic cleansing against the Armenians ( http://www.armenian-genocide.org/ ). Then in WWII the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem allied with the Nazi's. IF in both wars the leaders of Muslim nations and Muslim culture had backed the allies and opposed the genocide against the Armenians and the Jews, I can't help but believe the entire world would be focused on other issues today.
Comment By Nick Gier, 10-10-07To Craig Moore's response of 9-28-07, I do not accept the idea of segregating the sexes, but I still remember separate entrances for women in Canadian bars, and many people, including feminists, argue for single sex schools.
Therefore, we have a "cultural heritage" of "almost 2,000 years" that believed in the subordination and segregation of women. Until recently, our heritage has been just as sexist as Islam.
The U.S. has a horrible record in terms of basic treatment of women. We have one of the highest domestic violence rates in the world in which it is the woman who is most always the victim.
Finally, why is it that Muslim countries have already had female presidents and prime ministers—Turkey, Bangladesh (twice), Indonesia, and Pakistan (soon twice)—and we have yet had one? Will you be voting for Hillary, Mr. Moore?
To Sweed7, 9-29-07 I would say that you should watch your hate speech and also be reminded that the correct translation of those goodies in the Muslim heaven is "figs" not "virgins."
With regard to the decline of Islamic culture, I would say that there are at least four factors: the Mongol invasion, tribalism, colonialism, and the rise of fundamentalism, an anti-modern and anti-scientific view own conservative Christians embrace.
So, yes, I agree with you, Hal Herring (9-30-07), that we may have the same problem if we aren't mindful. And your point about Osama and the Aryan Nations is a good one. On the web version of my column, I've changed that to followers of Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell.
Finally, to your point about moderate Muslims speaking out, I simply direct you to dozens of websites of moderate Muslim organizations, and I also point to leaders such as Mohammed VI of Morocco who deports Saudi missionaries who cross the line, and the line that he's drawn is very thin indeed.
But before I expand on each of these, let me just ask a basic question: should we assume that any culture will last forever? Hal's metaphor is a good one: all good fruit ripens and then falls. Does anyone who is really knowledgeable about current trends in the 21st Century seriously believe that we will retain our hegemony in the world?
The last advantage we will have, after we lose our economic leadership to China, Japan, and the EU, will be a muscle bound military, which in the hands of an ignorant and arrogant president like Bush, Jr., could starts wars all over in the name of "saving" America.
No one asks today about why ancient Greece fell, and no one seeks any special reasons except for the fact that the Romans had a better army and superior administrative skills.
The old saw that Greece fell because of homosexuality does not dignify mention, even less a response. Philip of Macedon, son of the bisexual Alexander, praised the homosexual partners in the Spartan army who fought to the death for each other as the great soldiers he'd ever encountered. The U.S. military is far poorer than richer for the gays and lesbians that it has unceremoniously kicked out.
The Mongols only destroyed the cities that resisted them, so the Muslims of Baghdad should have sued for peace, because the capital of the Golden Age of Islam was leveled to the ground in 1258 and great libraries and scholars were gone forever.
Tribalism has bedeviled nation building in Africa, Arab countries, and Afghanistan. It didn't help at all that colonial powers were very adept at playing one tribe or one religious sect against the other. Islamic Spain could probably have survived much longer if various Muslim factions, sometimes allied with Christian armies, had not fought against each other.
Britain and France divided up the Middle East, drew artificial borders, and played favorites with quislings who would do their biding. We and the Brits overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and sowed seeds of the bitter Iran that is our enemy today.
19th Century Muslims who embraced Western thought and who had political power brought reforms to their countries, but just as many Muslims, disgusted by the way they were treated by European powers, turned against Western thought and planted the seeds of a Islamic fundamentalism that has now flowered after the U.S. constantly sided with Israel and, even worse, stationed troops not far from Islam's holy sites.