By Nick Gier, New West Unfiltered 10-03-07
Sounds more like neo-Platonism not neo-confederatism.
Comment By Jake Walls, 10-03-07Wilson uses the term paleo-confederate to describe himself.
Comment By kalebt, 10-03-07Funny how anyone in Idaho who says that the South might not have been so wrong and that slavery might not have been the most damnable sin on the face of the earth is immediately labeled neo-Confederate/Nazi.
By the by, does anyone else notice the Fallacy of Ambiguous Terms with the re-defining of war in the last part? You might want to actually look at the context of what Wilson is saying before you start to pull random words out.
Actually, J.Clark, in my mind the postmillenialist movement (of which Pastor Wilson is part) is a very far cry from neo-Platonism. The postmillenialist movement teaches (as this article says) that Christians have a duty to rebuild the world before Christ's return. This is closely linked to their belief that God will remake earthly human bodies into new bodies which will house their souls in heaven. This idea that even in the afterlife, after the soul has been "set free" from the earthly body, it will be receive a different-yet-same body to clothe it, sounds like Plato's worst nightmare to me.
Gier's obsession with Wilson is a running joke among those familiar with both of them. I think some people would give good money to have a band of antagonists like Gier following them around.
Comment By Christopher Witmer, 10-04-07As usual, Gier is great entertainment but ultimately gets everything bass ackwards. Just a few items picked up at random --
1) The CREC is Wilson's "own" denomination in essentially the same sense that the CREC is my own denomination, and I'm just a person in the pews -- in a CREC church in Tokyo, Japan, I might add. I guess this mean's that Wilson's empire is now truly global. (There are also CREC churches in Europe, Africa, and elsewhere outside the USA.)
2) As to the racism of the League of the South, see this article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1 -- here is just a quick quote: 'Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, which monitors hate groups, said "What is remarkable and really astounding about this situation is we see people and institutions who are supposedly on the progressive left rubbing shoulders with bona fide white supremacists." Sale [head of the progressive left group rubbing shoulders with the League of the South] said the League of the South "has not done or said anything racist in its 14 years of existence," and that the Southern Poverty Law Center is not credible. "They call everybody racists," Sale said.'
3) Contrary to Gier's distortion, Postmillennialism says that the Holy Spirit working through the power of the Gospel to transform the hearts of men is what will make manifest God's dominion (which is already a fact and not something any person needs to establish -- God does not rule because some men got together and decided to make Him King; rather, He rules, period).
4) Gier would apparently have us believe that he is a man of peace while Wilson is a man of war, but that is clearly nonsense. Both men are waging a war through words, and that is the best way that wars are to be fought. That is exactly what the Bible calls us to do -- the Book of Revelation shows Jesus with a sword coming out of His mouth, thus emphasizing the power of words. But Wilson is a man who preaches, and very clearly believes, that God will throw unrepentant liars into the Lake of Fire. To put it another way, Wilson clearlly believes in a God who is apt to punish him if he deliberately distorts the truth. Gier, on the other hand, as a Unitarian, harbors no such beliefs, and it shows in the cavalier way he is willing to distort the truth about his adversary.
My reference to "neo-Platonism" was based on the articles description of Wilson (not the actual Wilson or what Wilson would say about himself). If Wilson (according to the article) wants the racial structure of the confederacy (everyone in their place; i.e. the Hindu caste system) then this is Platonism as revealed in the "Republic" and not neo-confederacy which is about how local governments should relate to one another.
Comment By Nick Gier, 10-12-07To J.Clark, 10-03-07, I would just say, as one who taught ancient philosophy for 30 years, that the term "neo-Platonism" is simply not appropriate here, especially since Wilson has closely associated himself with neo-Confederates such as Steven Wilkins.
To Jake Walls, 10-03-07, I would ask: what is a paleo-Confederate? From some of Wilson's meanderings, it could mean that we should have stayed with the founding fathers; franchise limited to property-owning males (confirmed by Wilson, Wilkins, and George Grant at Moscow conference in February 2004); senators still being appointed; slavery still OK; and strong support for state's rights. If that is so, neo-Confederacy vs. paleo-Confederacy is a distinction without a difference.
To kalebt, 10-03-07, I say that I've never called Wilson a Nazi. I've even accepted his declaration that he is not a racist. If Wilson & Co. do not want to be misunderstood about the meaning of war, why don't the NSA coffee mugs say "For the faithful, there will always be struggle" rather than "war," and why does the cover of Jim Wilson's book have an upheld sword on it? These guys just can't help themselves; they openly invite misunderstanding and confusion.
To standr, 10-03-07, I would simply say that an obsession with finding truth, defending the Academy, and rooting out dishonesty, deception and falsehood is the most magnificent obsession to which a human being could devote himself.
You should have been in attendance as I took the microphone for a second time during Wilson's talk on the documentary My Town at the end of January, 2007. All of a sudden, the student moderator said that he had to close the meeting, even though there were 10 more minutes left on the room reservation. In my 30 plus years of using the UI SUB, no one has ever kicked people out because of running over time. No one was offering me "good money" to stay and continue to discredit Wilson. It was clear that they wanted me to stop questioning him.
To Christopher Witmer, 10-04-07, I would like to thank him for not answering with a simple insult, but actually giving me some substance to which to respond. As it turns out, Witmer dances around the edges and fails to demonstrate any mistakes in my column.
Witmer is taking page out of Wilson's debate book on the meaning of owning something. Humble Flip Wilson always says that all he owns is a house and a Ford pick-up. Founders "own" their movements and institutions is a far more profound way that simply holding the deed to a property. Jesus founded Christianity but didn't own anything except his cloak.
Everywhere Wilson speaks he is introduced as the founder of NSA, Logos School, and 200 other classical Christian schools. The NY Times article on NSA, which Wilson praises to the hilt even though it provides damning evidence against him, describes him as the co-founder of CREC, so I'll go with that, especially since Wilson does not object to that in his blog. In a Wikipedia entry that Wilson can correct any time, it states that "Wilson was instrumental in forming the Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches."
In the dispute about the CREC Christ of the King in Santa Cruz, Wilson acts as an authoritarian bishop rather than a moderator of a confederation, a type of organization that gives the most autonomy to its members. My research on CREC reveals that it operates as a refuge for scoundrels such as the defrocked R. C. Sproul, Jr. and fathers of renegade sons who would have been disfellowshipped permanently under the strict discipline of other evangelical congregations.
With regard to the Southern Poverty Law Center, I will say just two things: (1) they don't call everyone racists; and (2) the people of Idaho will be forever grateful for their successful suit they brought against the Aryan Nations, one of the greatest embarrassments that the good people of Idaho have ever endured. With neo-Confederates in Moscow, we are now faced with yet another embarrassment from the Loony Right.
Finally, to the alleged equivocation about war, I would first repeat the points above. Wilson and Co. could save themselves a lot of grief by toning down their rhetoric and not throwing out terms and phrases that provoke and cause confusion and misunderstanding.
Unlike Wilson, I don't follow the principles of war; rather, I follow the principles of civil debate, which do not tolerate deception, surprise attack, and destruction of the enemy, all allowed under the rules of war. Wilson's critics, among them good conservative evangelicals, have provided sufficient evidence for his "distortions of the truth," so it is he who should be shaking in fear of fires of Hell.
I will trust my conscience and the peer review of my colleagues to prevent me from distorting the truth. My God is, as John Fowles once said so aptly, not "omniscient and decreeing; but in the new theological image, with freedom our first principle, not authority. . . . There is only one good definition of God: one freedom that allows other freedoms to exist."
My broad use of the term "neo-Platonism" was I admit not in its usual use. My apologies. It was made with allusion to Popper's criticism of Plato and his love for class distinctions. Much of your criticism might be warranted but that was my distinction. I'm familiar with neo-confederacy as a means of government but not class distinctions. Even though a great cloud of witnesses erupted from the confederate states concerning state governments as an apology to keep their slaves, it does not means that a confederate form of government is not a viable one. It is easy to separate the sheep from the goats; you can best do by their smell.
Comment By kalebt, 10-14-07Mr. Gier,
My apologies for any name-calling, it was certainly not my intent to be at all slanderous. I meant my observation more generally than specifically to your comments here.
As to your comment about war, I'd say that your comments reveal the difference here. In Christian theology, particularly the type that Wilson and the CREC believe in, history is a struggle between those who do not believe in Christ and those who do. That struggle is one without weapons (at least when it is done rightly) and yet is for a far greater prize than any earthly war: for the souls of all mankind. Because of this we call it a war, though it is not fought with weapons on battlefields but instead with words in hearts and souls.
Good morning, Prof. Gier.
As an atheist, I thank you for your endeavors to illuminate those that would corrupt Christianity to their own ends. Please forgive me my total self-imposed ignorance of all things religious/spiritual. To me, it would be the same as studying water divination or other superstitions. Having admitted this, I also realize that I and my fellow lack of belief-ers are in the nearly invisible minority. Having no immediate info about your beliefs, I will assume that you believe that the separation of church and state to be appropriate. I am heartened to see people of faith (talk2action linked me here.) willing to debate and, yes, battle against those that would impose their visions of Godliness upon the world. Thank you for your hard work.
tom,
The problem with what you are saying is that it defeats itself. You ask that no "visions of Godliness" be "imposed" on the world. Yet, if you think about it, isn't your idea of Godliness (that is, there isn't a God and therefore no need for Godliness) a vision in itself? If I don't like steak, does that mean that I have no view on steak? Of course this analogy is weak in several areas but I hope you see my point. Your belief that there is no God is just as much a belief about God as my belief is. And so, in the end, you telling me not to "impose my vision of Godliness upon the world" is really you imposing your vision of God onto me.