Idaho Politics: Commentary

Astroturf Seen in Two ‘Unrelated’ Treasure Valley Protests

Comment By Randy Jackson, 3-13-08

What exactly is your point here? So what that I am the same person. I have not kept that from anyone. But here is a few points for you to realize: first, youth for revolution was founded in march 2007. I put in the complaint at the library in December 2005. So this was not a y4r activity. Second, your 40 day protest thing- well, it wasn't a protest. If you would have actually read the press release, you should have known that. It was a 40 day prayer vigil. 40 days of praying. In case you are wondering, yes, there is a difference between praying and protesting. third, so what if I am an "associate" of Bryan Fischer and Brandi Swindell? Does that mean that all of a sudden it changes who I am or my purpose for what I am doing? Would you tell me that you have no association with people on the left that may be activists in their cause? And if you were, does that mean we should judge you on that? If you were really concerned about my motives for the library thing, perhaps you should have picked up the phone and asked me. That is what all the real reporters did. And the reason that it wasn't "reported" by the "main-stream media" is probably because in their eyes, it just wasn't a story. Which is probably why they still haven't "picked up" on your tip.

Comment By Randy Jackson, 3-13-08

And by the way, after reading this, I have to ask- are you a conspiracy theorist? Do you believe in the black helicopters? Do you think that perhaps... I AM FLYING ONE OF THEM?! After all, there is this huge conspiracy about me being involved with Bryan and Brandi AT THE SAME TIME as putting in a complaint form at the library. Yes, yes! It smells like a conspiracy all right.

Comment By Megan Patrick, 3-14-08

As a citizen and a human being with common sense, I would agree with Randy: What's your point? There is no real story in your article, which really explains why no one has picked it up, press or otherwise. I am an active participant in Y4R and I have known Randy for several years. I am not here to defend him; he is capable of doing that himself, if he so desires. However, I am willing to clarify some things for you since, as Randy stated, didn't bother to call or come speak to us, or to retain a statement from Y4R.
In concerns to the Racism currently happening at Planned Parenthood (PP) - not just Planned Parenthood of Idaho (PPI), we Pro-life Activists have known for a long time now that PP and PPI are racist. If you would have bothered to have done some research before you actually built and posted your article, you would have easily found information proving that not only does PP and PPI take donations specifically for certain races- no matter what race, you would have also found that PP in its entirety has killed more African American's than the Ku Klux Clan ever has. Frankly, I am not an advocate for either. At Youth4Revolution we are made up of many races and cultures. We have members who are Hispanic, part Native American, and white. Should an African American reach out to us for help, or should they wish to participate as an active member of Y4R, the color of their skin would be of absolute no concern. We, and myself, believe that all life is sacred and precious in and of itself, and race, religion, heritage, sex, ect. does not factor into it’s value.
Would you have bothered to show up to our protest of PP, PPI, and Autumn Kersey, you would have noticed that there was not a single Pro-life sign out there. This was specifically because we wanted people to know that while we are Pro-life, we find racism wrong in any way, shape, or form and that was our focus. Does this exposure of PP and PPI benefit us? Yes, but that’s PP and PPI’s own fault for their practices. If you are ignorant enough to accept donations that could potentially hurt your organization because they are based on racism, then you will likely pay the consequences. If not, then you should. And if you were to listen to Randy Jackson’s speech that day, you would have heard him explain to PPI that before that particular day PPI had agreed to work with us on like-minded issues. He then challenged them to do so by asking for their cooperation by asking Autumn Kersey to step down or be fired. If PP and PPI really cared about people from all walks of life, they would have immediately fired Autumn Kersey and made no acceptations.
Below are some facts that you should know about Planned Parenthood, their racism, and abortion. They can also be found here (http://www.klanparenthood.com/History_of_Abortion_Statistics/):
In America today, almost as many African-American children are aborted as are born.
A black baby is three times more likely to be murdered in the womb than a white baby.
Since 1973, abortion has reduced the black population by over 25 percent.
Twice as many African-Americans have died from abortion than have died from AIDS, accidents, violent crimes, cancer, and heart disease combined.
Every three days, more African-Americans are killed by abortion than have been killed by the Ku Klux Klan in its entire history.
Planned Parenthood operates the nation's largest chain of abortion clinics and almost 80 percent of its facilities are located in minority neighborhoods.
About 13 percent of American women are black, but they submit to over 35 percent of the abortions.
Is this not reason enough for all people, especially Pro-lifers like myself to jump to their feet and spring into action? To me, and to others like myself, including other members of Y4R, its more than reason enough. Besides, PP and PPI aren’t just targeting African Americans. They target people of all races, but especially minorities, including a hefty number of Hispanics and African American. Not only that, they specifically target low income neighborhoods and families. However, if you took the $800,000,000 a year that PP gets in tax money to use in-part on abortion, and gave it out to the approximate 1.2 million families who terminate their pregnancies simply because they are afraid and/or worried they cannot provide for their child/children that would provide a significant amount of money to help mothers provide for their newborn. Also, newborns should receive free healthcare under the CHIP program. I know myself that I would much rather pay taxes knowing they are going to help people in need and help for the greater good, than pay them to terminate and innocent life that is unable to defend itself.
As for issues with the Library, have you even read or opened these books. There is no form of censorship going on here. In fact, there are several books in the library that contain very similar content, however do not provide extraordinarily graphic pictures. Should a pervert decide it would be funny to leave the book open to a graphic picture on a table out in the open and a young child who cannot even read see it, he or she can still process visually what is going on. Not only that, if you were to take these same books immediately outside of the library and show the pictures in it to children, you would be immediately arrested for public indecency or indecent exposure. Besides, anyone can walk into Barnes and Nobles, Borders, or another similar private bookstore and access the same information without even having to purchase the books. These books even state such vulgar facts that it is fine to have sex with a minor- in fact they say it is natural, and the only reason they say it is wrong is because the law says it is wrong. Well, let’s use common sense for a moment and think about that statement. See anything wrong with it? Think about it this way, you stood up for that book remaining in a library and 10 years from now your 15 year old son comes to you and says the neighbor who lived down the street molested him. After an investigation takes place you find that the neighbor who molested your innocent child learned how to groom him and lure him into such a vulnerable state from that book that you insisted stay in the library? How would that make you feel as a parent? That’s what I thought. There are many other reasonable and logical concerns about the books, but I think that says enough.
As for Randy and Y4R having connections to Generation Life, the Idaho Values Alliance, Idaho Chooses Life, and their members and leaders… well, I think that just goes to show how wrong you are about this being “astroturf,” because in fact, it goes to show that there are several organizations within Idaho alone that support Pro-life issues and that there are many people who believe in our campaign against PP, PPI, abortion, and racism. Don’t believe me, this fall we will be running our second 40 day pray vigil. Why don’t you come join us and educate yourself about how things really are before you start writing ramblings about issues you really know nothing about?

Comment By Sharon Fisher, 3-14-08

It's ironic that you protest the very organization that has done the *most* to prevent abortion in this country by promoting safe, cheap, easily accessible birth control. Not to mention the irony of attacking an organization -- set up to help low-income people -- for actually setting up shop in low-income neighborhoods. Where else should they set up?

I am delighted to hear that you are in favor in CHIP; I think it's an excellent program and I look forward to seeing your prayer vigils at the Legislature and Congress to support expansion of the program. Bill Sali voted against it at both a local and national level.

As far as the books, I have no problem at all with people not wanting their kids to see those books, or any other books. That is their decision as a parent. What I have a problem with is making the books less accessible to everyone else under the guise of "protecting the children." I am sure that there are many, many books in the library that are not appropriate for children; are those all going to be pulled too? Do we need to live in a G-rated world?

As far as the distinction between groups and individuals, yes, of *course* it makes a difference. There's times when it makes sense to want to sound like one has lots of supporters, and then one can pull out the organization and letterhead, and there's times when one wants to sound like simply a concerned individual.

For example, it sounds a lot more impressive to have the backing of "the Idaho Values Alliance" rather than "Hey, this guy Bryan also agrees with me," even if the only purpose of the Idaho Values Alliance is to raise $88,993 in charitable contribtions in order to pay Bryan Fischer a salary of $56,972.

Comment By Megan Patrick, 3-14-08

Maybe we should live in a G-Rated world... maybe then people just like you would be less desensitized to issues that literally break down our brains and our hearts and make us care a little less each day about the rights, the freedoms, and the respects we should have each and every day being taken away from us.
So what if you don’t have the audacity to stand up for what you believe in, to stand up for what’s right? That’s your own problem. You look down on people like Randy and I because we are willing to stand up and sacrifice some of our freedoms so that we may fight for the rights of others. We only have to do that because people are letting others strip our communities, nation, and world of their values. I am a white, middle class Christian, and to most, whether they admit it or not, or even realize it, I am not supposed to have a say in anything anymore and while its fine for you to defend your rights, I am just supposed to sit back and not react to you trying to change my life in ways I don’t see fit. Abortion has affected my life very personally. While I have not had an abortion, I am missing more than one family member because of it. That is a void that will never be able to be filled. Because of that, I am willing to stand up for the rights of an unborn child, for a mother who really has no idea what abortion is or what it will do to her physically, emotionally, and psychologically, for the father who has no rights, and for the brothers, sisters, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins who will never know a family member that was meant to be in their life.
Reasons for opposition to CHIP are many, but one large reason is because certain politicians don’t want it to cover the unborn because that is admitting that the child inside the womb is in fact a human being. However, let’s face it, everyone from abortionists to our family practitioners, to everyday people know that in fact that is a human being. You can’t become unpregnant, you are simply the mother of a dead child, and if you aren’t pregnant with a human being, then what’s the problem? What’s the need for an abortion? Exactly.
And Planned Parenthood wasn’t set up to help low income families, if you knew anything about Margaret Sanger you would know that she was not Pro-child or Pro-family, in fact, just for the heck of it she would have rather you had an abortion than keep your child to protect your rights as a female. I am also a member of Feminists for Life who recognize that both the life of the woman and the life of a child involved in a pregnancy are equally important. Also, if PP was so concerned about helping low income families, then they would stop charging women excessively for chemical and surgical abortions- yeah, all in the name of providing salaries for murderers. Now you tell me, which looks better, paying someone a salary so that they may commit their life to protecting the innocent (see: District Attorney, ect.), of providing a salary for someone who helps slaughter more than 1.2 million lives each year? Planned Parenthood doesn’t care about women or children; they care about money, hence the term blood money.

Comment By Serephin, 3-14-08

Anyone who would "sacrifice some of [their] freedoms" never deserved them in the first place.

Comment By Megan Patrick, 3-15-08

Have you met a soldier? Well, why don't you thank them.

Comment By Sharon Fisher, 3-15-08

I'm sorry, Megan, I'm having trouble following the logic in the first paragraph where you say in the first paragraph that people care less every day about the rights and freedoms that are being taken away from us, and then praise yourself and Randy in the second paragraph for giving up some of your freedoms, and criticize me for not standing up for my rights.

I *am* standing up for my rights.
My right as an American to not have governmental interference in what I choose to read.
My right as an American for other people's religious beliefs to not impinge on my own freedoms.
My right to raise my children as I choose.
My right to control my own body.

As far as some of your other points, the politicians who were against the expansion of CHIP were *exactly* the ones who professed their support for the unborn -- it's just that they lost interest once the child was actually out of the womb.

I'm not quite sure where the soldier remark comes from, but yes, I've met a few. Like, my dad. My husband. My grandfather, whom I never met because he made the ultimate sacrifice. A handful of my cousins. Numerous friends and their spouses. I agree that this country doesn't do enough to thank and support its soldiers, and I am disgusted and ashamed that the Bush administration is doing what it can to evade its responsibility to take care of these people. They were and are defending my freedoms: to read what I want to read, to live my life without interference from other people's religions, to raise my child as I see fit, and to control my own body.

It is you and the people like you who are trying to take my freedoms away.

Comment By Sisyphus, 3-15-08

Oh Megan, your obsession with this construct in your mind on what other people choose to do with their lives is really dis-spiriting and can't be healthy for you. I really hope you get some professional counselling. And by all means please mention your severe hang-ups with sex and your detailed knowledge of the activities of perverts. In the meantime I'll pray for you. And I can do that from here, I don't need to go to a special place to display that for other people to see because that really would be focusing attention on me, therefore prideful which I think is still a sin.

But Sharon's right, your desire to impose your version (G-rated) of what the world should be on the rest of us would rob us of the choices we would otherwise make for ourselves. I really can't see how that would result in providing me with more freedom. The removal of the books from the library took away some choices from my children and I, choices which are difficult for me to address with my children because they don't like coming to me with those kinds of issues. You understand don't you? My children and I have discussed these matters openly but its uncomfortable and I was happy the library was there available as a resource cause I really don't think my kids want to buy those books. My first memory of reading them was from my teen years and I found them quite enlightening but not at all prurient, too much pubic hair. I don't own them. Gosh now my kids will be condemned to look for it on the internet and that doesn't sound like a good option. And please, hindering access to information is most certainly censorship by any definition. You choose to impose ignorance upon all of us because you have an active imagination containing delusions of perverts. And as a result you are removing the availability of choices God gave us when he granted us the power of free will. How can we live an honest life if we are denied the ability to test ourselves?

And your knee jerk myopic response to Serephin's comments demonstrates to me that you tend to get your marching orders from Fox News. Yes the soldiers are fighting on America's behalf but people defending our freedoms includes all who attempt to stop their erosion. We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us. A famous Idaho Republican Senator once said: "No more fatuous chimera has ever infested the brain than that you can control opinions by law or direct belief by statute, and no more pernicious sentiment ever tormented the heart than the barbarous desire to do so." Its great you choose to exercise your right to express yourself, and I'll defend to the death your right to do so, but you become my enemy, and of all Americans, when you seek to impose your views on me.

And the ploy you and your ilk pulled in a patent racist effort to discredit and rebrand PPI is really quite below contempt. It was the equivalent of asking someone if they stopped beating their wife yet,a logical fallacy in the form of a compound question that implies wrongful conduct when none is in fact occurring and for which there is no yes or no answer. It displays to me and other thinking people how poorly it reflects on the people engaging in the tactic. The boon for me about Sharon's article is to demonstrate how such a small band of individuals can construct legal entities to inflate their numbers and their status by making the most noise and grabbing the headlines by evoking controversy to further your political agendas for which it appears at least one of you makes a handsome living. It strikes me as immoral and even sinful and reminds me of the religious barnstormers of the south, opportunistic and fraudulent.

Comment By Megan Patrick, 3-15-08

Well as for the soldier comment, this is what it was in reference to:
By Serephin, 3-14-08
Anyone who would "sacrifice some of [their] freedoms" never deserved them in the first place.
Those soldiers are giving up their rights, and they deserve to have them. Without them making that sacrifice, then we wouldn't have our rights. I realize this isn't your post. I just put replies in one box.
And I am not here to discuss the war with you. Abortion kills more human lives in a day than we killed in one day of terrorism on our own soil. To me, that's enough said right there.
As for you standing up for your freedom and us standing up for ours, I was simply pointing out that you wrote a pointless article a which clearly showed that you didn't like what we are doing and how we are doing it and you didn't bother to get any factual evidence for either side. However, when we stand out on sidewalks, when we counsel, and when we spread our word, we share pivotal points of information and not just our mindless opinion. And if you are so against big government, and how it effects your life, then you would be looking past the issue of abortion itself and realizing that by inflicting the right to choose on a nation as a whole, rather than letting it be a state's right, you are ultimately taking away the right to choose. And since it is a human being in your womb, it's not just about what happens to your body. Likely you made the choice to become pregnant whether you actually intended on getting pregnant from having sex in the first place. If you are old enough to be having sex then logically you should be old enough to understand the consequences, and that is another life. And just to cover my basics here... I'm guessing someone is going to bring up rape. Well less than one percent of abortions are performed because of rape. And if you want to be real honest about those that do happen, well look at it this way, if you are raped, you are going to remember it, or the aftermath of it (assuming you were given date rape drugs and do not remember the actual event) like bruising, welling, and having to heal from that mentally, physically, and psychologically, for the rest of your life (at least until you either get amnesia- not all that likely, or Alzheimer’s). And two wrongs don't make a right. In fact, abortion is the second act of violence performed on a raped woman. Should a woman be unable to handle that mentally and/or emotionally after delivery, adoption is always an option and she (or a family member or friend) can find a loving and safe home for that child. And when a mother's health is at risk, I suggest you read this quote from Femististsforlife.org:
What about “the life of the mother”?
Since we are both pro-woman and pro-life, we refuse to choose between women and children.
Sometimes doctors advise abortion because they are unaware of other options or because they are pressured by fear of malpractice suits. We believe that physicians and other medical personnel should treat both patients and do what they can to save both lives.
This is what was done before the Roe decision was handed down.
Thankfully, medical advancements continue to save more lives. Situations in which the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother are extremely rare. Late-term abortions are never medically necessary. Emergency C-sections are often the medically appropriate response to save both mother and child. Viability at this stage of the child’s development is generally very good, especially with advances in neonatal care. Babies who weigh just under a pound are surviving!
As for first-trimester scenarios, most are to save the mother from ectopic (“out of place”) pregnancies, which typically occur in the Fallopian tube. Surgeries for ectopic pregnancies are not medically classified as abortions. Since the child has no chance of survival, and the mother can survive if the pregnancy is ended, we must do what we can to save her. To let both die would not be pro-life. At this time uterine transplants to re-implant the baby into the womb are not possible. (But if this becomes a viable option, it would have enormous ramifications for the entire abortion debate, since becoming un-pregnant would not be the same as having an abortion!)
Finally, there are issues related to mental health. While pregnancy can be a stressful experience and sometimes bring on or exacerbate depression, psychological stress should not be “treated” by abortion. Psychiatrists and psychologists need to treat mental health issues directly.
Pro-life feminists are committed to protecting the lives of both women and unborn children. We call for honesty, accuracy and compassion in considering “the life of the mother”—with a focus, always, on life-affirming solutions.
Because women deserve better,
Serrin M. Foster
President
Feminists for Life
http://www.feministsforlife.org
Aside from these issues, we aren't just standing up for the innocent unborn children, we are standing up for women who think they have a choice but actually don't.
See Here: http://www.stopforcedabortions.org/forced.htm
The Un-Choice
In a national study of women, 64% of those who aborted felt pressured to do so by others.1 This pressure can become violent.2 65% suffered symptoms of trauma.1 In the year following an abortion, suicide rates are 6-7 times higher.3
If you would like more information on coerced abortions please visit that website. There is a lot of information that people who are Pro-life and Pro-choice don't realize.
Besides coercion leading to lack of choice most women do not fully know and/or understand what abortion is and the effects it will have on their lives after the fact. Most clinics will mention in one sentence or less that a women and/or couple can keep the child and that it's an option, and they definitely aren't given resources to help them make that an easy option, however, adoption is given about a sentence, and then they move right into abortion and spend hours if necessary counseling a women to receive an abortion. Abortion counselors and doctors are highly trained at tapping into women's emotions so that they can figure out why it is that abortion would be an option and play it up extensively rather than giving her all the options and in respective amounts. As for information they fail to include:
-93% of women who have had an abortion regret their decision
- (* Not e: The figure below is for 1998 and is likely higher now)
Rates of death of women who have an abortion:
One out of every 6,000 women who have an abortion after 21 weeks gestation die.
One out of every 166,000 abortions ends in death.
Just under one out of every 100 abortions has a serious complication
[Source: AGI, 1998. Note: These figures may be low due to under-reporting of deaths due to abortions.]
-Most women are not told that abortion can lead to their own death (what a choice right?) and that should they live they could suffer serious damage or complications
-Women who have an abortion because “it’s not the right time” are less likely to be able to have children later on in life when they “choose” to
-Women who have an abortion are more likely to have an ectopic pregnancy or a miscarriage
-Women who have abortions are at much higher risks for breast cancer and
-Below is a study found at the following link, to see others go to the link and read further: http://abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_23.asp#Givemeotherdefinitivestudies.
Another was in Washington State: Few studies on this issue receive media attention. This went worldwide and broke the defacto embargo on reporting the abortionbreast cancer link. Janet Daling did a very professional study that could not be discounted. It found:
- An induced abortion raises a woman’s chance of getting breast cancer before age 45 by 50%. If done before age 18, it increases 150%; if after age 30, it’s up 110%.
- A woman with a family member with breast cancer who had her first abortion after 30 years increased her risk 270%.
- All 12 women in the study with a family history of breast cancer, who aborted before age 18 — all 12 — got breast cancer before age 45. J. Daling, Risk of Breast Cancer Among Young Women, J. Nat. Ca. Inst., Vol. 86, No. 21, 11/2/94, pg. 1584
- Other risks include hepatitis, hemorrhage, bowel, bladder, and reproductive organ damage, including having parts ripped out by suction. Placenta Previa, sterility, and emotional side effect like Post-Abortion-Syndrome, and emotional consequences such as suicide rates being 6-7 times higher within the following year of abortion. Also see http://abortionfacts.com/literature/literature_928YC.asp for more side effects of abortion.
As you can see by not educating women of these severe and frequent consequences of abortion, you aren’t really giving them a choice.

Comment By Megan Patrick, 3-15-08

By Sisyphus, 3-15-08

To me your argument is knull and void. All I have to say is, I don't have cable, you know, I am low income, I literally live down the street from PPI, and so I don't get Fox News. But good to know you've seen it a time or two! Congrats!

Comment By Sisyphus, 3-15-08

I love that, "knull and void". Kno, knot knull and void, but knecessary, knowledgeable, and iknformative. Sorry I took a liberty
at your expense. I'm quite used to freedom hating social conservatives failing to make rational informed responses to my comments. And I don't have cable either. By choice. Ain't choice a great and liberating thing.


Nobody blames you for harboring these misguided views. We just would prefer that you refrain from using government to impose your views upon the rest of us. The simplest solution to the issue is for you to acknowledge that reasonable informed people can have a different point of view than yours and that you and the governemnt don't need to interfere in our opinion or choices made as a consequence.

I work in the CASA program representing Guardian ad litems who stand up for children taken from their parents by the state because the drug use, violence or neglect. The program is underfunded and completely dependent on volunteers who are becoming more and more rare. I'm quite amazed how people can go have "prayer vigils" for zygotes when living breathing children continue to suffer through the torment of confused parents and none of you are stepping up to help. Your concept of Christian charity is spent on a misguided effort. Those parents' major crime from my perspective is ignorance brought about by people who seek to deprive them of information of the crucial life function of procreation because people like you can't cope with the topic of sex. I reject your repression and don't believe you advocate for sound public policy. And I will fight you at every turn.

Comment By Wordsmith, 3-17-08

I'm sorry - was this about books or abortion?

A woman with a family member with breast cancer who had her first abortion after 30 years increased her risk 270%.

The logic of that sentence alone underscores the scope of illogic of this particular poster. If you cannot present lucid - lucid - logical statements to support your premise(s) AND use correct English grammar and correct spelling, it diminishes your impact.

Comment By Golden Mean, 3-17-08

I'm against removing any books from the library but I am for creating a separate section for sexual explicit material. I suggest a creating a new area near the rear of the library hidden behind a velvet curtain. It would also be helpful if the new library section sold other applicable items such as double a batteries.

Comment By Nigel, 3-17-08

Mr. Golden Mean, I would like to officially apply for a card at your library. Its about time somebody made libraries exciting. I'll see you behind the velvet curtain.

Comment By Golden Mean, 3-17-08

Nigel, that's wonderful providing you are of age. That be true, be sure to check out our vast selection of adult pop-up books.

Comment By Art N Culture, 3-17-08

Will the proposed new library section offer any specialty aka fetish books? I’ve got a thing for dairy products and am interested in anything regarding the topic of Cheesetiality.

Comment By Nigel, 3-17-08

Oh I'm of age Honey! snap snap snap

Comment By Idol Fan, 3-17-08

To Randy Jackson - I’m sure that this is a very worth while cause and I commend you for your passion and commitment. But come on dog, have you looked at Paula lately? I love that girl man but she’s hurting. Can you say intervention?

Comment By Simon, 3-18-08

It's no for me.

Comment By Randy Jackson, 3-24-08

to Idol fan- well, glad to see you are a fan, dogg! but really, I know Paula is hurting, but first things first- Simon hasn't changed his look or attitude since the very first show. He looks and acts like he crawled out from under a rock or out of a small smelly cave or something. So, he is first on my intervention list.

Comment By Jim Brown, 3-25-08

Randy - I find it super amusing that you have teamed up with Tom Dale. Do you realize that he is gay?

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