AHSA JOINS WITH NRA IN OPPOSING D.C. GUN BAN
NRA Nemesis Alive and Well, and Supporting Obama
By Bill Schneider, 6-24-08
Even when you’re the biggest and toughest of them all there’s always somebody there to challenge you, as the National Rifle Association (NRA) has learned. The NRA’s two-year-old nemesis, the American Hunters and Shooters Association (ASHA) just won’t go away.
“I’m here to tell you we’re alive and well and plan to continue being a viable alternative to the NRA,” announced AHSA President Ray Schoenke at a news conference at the annual conference of the Outdoor Writers Association of America currently being held in Bismarck, North Dakota.
Ninety percent of new nonprofit organizations fail in the first two years, Schoenke noted, but AHSA just celebrated its second anniversary. “I wish I could tell you we had hundreds of thousands of members, but I can tell you our message is resonating with hundreds of thousands of hunters and shooters.”
Pushed hard by skeptical writers in the audience, Schoenke declined to say how many members AHSA had, but said that more than a thousand members paid membership dues in the past year.
He also declined to give the three biggest donors when asked by the same skeptic, but noted that the NRA and most other nonprofits also decline to name its largest donors.
The main purpose of the news conference was to tell outdoor writers that AHSA has endorsed Barack Obama for President and plans to raise millions of dollars to aggressively work to help him win several key states, including some western states. “We think hunters and shooters could make the difference in some of these states,” he said.
He declined to name the states ASHA plans to target, but promised to do so in the near future.
Most people expect the NRA to endorse John McCain, even though he had gone directly against the gun lobby’s passionate stand on gun shows. In March 2004, McCain spoke on the Senate floor and pushed hard to close the “gun show loophole,” which allows transfers of guns without background checks. This position puts him in line with that of Obama who also believes gun show sales should be subject to background checks.
Soon after it became clear McCain would be the republican nominee, he flip-flopped and started opposing gun show background checks, now taking the NRA position that America does not need any new gun laws.
To read the details of the sudden flip flop, click here.
Interestingly, though, AHSA sided with the NRA in opposing the Washington, D.C ban on handguns, which is currently before the U.S. Supreme Court. A decision is expected in the next few weeks.
I used to think I was unique; I was a member of the NRA and the ACLU at the same time. I never could understand why the NRA only thought the 2d Amendment was important and not the other 10 or 20.
In fact it was the NRA's refusal to discuss the other amendments and their importance to personal privacy that finally pissed me off. After Waco, how could any gun owner think that his hunting rifle was going to protect him for the blood thirsty Hostage Rescue Teams?
When the ACLU and the NRA began working together a few years ago, I finally saw that the ACLU might understand the constitutionality of the 2nd Amendment and could, maybe, shed some light on the other amendments for the benefit of gun owners. I couldn't see how two pro Bill of Rights organizations could miss helping restore the balance of personal rights with national safety.
Then Charlton Heston came along and ditched the ACLU and now, the NRA is back to being Nuts, Radicals and Axxholes.
I am a gun owner and have been since I was nine years old. But, the proliferation of automatic weapons has made some parts of the US 'dicey.' Remember, the Treasury department made Thompson sub machine guns illegal during Prohibition and they did it for public safety as well as their Agents protection. 'Collateral damage' is coming home to roost.
Thanks for the news, Bill. That was interesting information regarding OWAA for a couple of reasons that I will choose to reveal at another time. Snrk. It is no coincidence AT ALL that good old Ray was in Bismarck. Call it "useful idiot" syndrome.
As for ACLU, Boris mine kamerad, the trouble with them is they refuse to support those hunks of the Bill of Rights they don't like. The NRA, to its credit, has a much better record of at least not ATTACKING certain uncivil liberties. And they do in fact support the First and Fourth and Fifth and Sixth and Ninth and Tenth and Fourteenth.....
As for privacy, WhyTF do you think the NRA opposes registries and permanent databases at ATF?
Go back and read your Constitution.
And Bill, regarding the DC ban, I sort of wish they were in fact stupid enough to endorse the Brady position. It would kill them dead politically.
I wonder how many more Obama Hosannas NewWest has in the hopper? There sure has been a number of them already? I find it a little interesting that a westerner like McCain would be ignorned while an east of the Mississippi city dude receives so much fawning praise here on a regular basis.
For the ASHA to support a democrat is rather non news to me. A real hunters and firearms group, in my opinion, would take strict policy positions and assess each candidate against those positions. What does the ASHA stand for and why, and which candidatest reflect those stands? I guess when Obama had that form filled out in Chicago saying he would ban handguns must be one of those ASHA stands.
The AHSA is just another front for the Brady Campaign and the Joyce Foundation. They are not interested in fighting crime, the real purpose, of the AHSA, is to prevent honest citizens from having the means to protect their homes and families. In other words, the AHSA is entirely fraudulent in purpose.
Comment By GEErnst, 6-25-08The gun lobby had already lost in the appeals court. Let's ask these simple questions to candidates:
*******
In his opinion in Parker Judge Silberman arrived at these conclusions:
"Reasonable restrictions also might be thought
consistent with a "well regulated Militia." The
registration of firearms gives the government
information as to how many people would be
armed for militia service if called up.
Reasonable firearm proficiency testing would
both promote public safety and produce better
candidates for military service. Personal
characteristics, such as insanity or felonious
conduct, that make gun ownership dangerous
to society also make someone unsuitable for
service in the militia."
http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/common/opinions/200703/04-7041a.pdf
p. 54
These are the makings of a firearms policy. Do you accept and support Judge Silberman's conclusions? Will you work towards a policy based on these conclusions?
*******
They are also a devastating repudiation of the gun lobby's core doctrine that the purpose of all those guns in private hands, outside of the knowledge and reach of law, is to maintain an anarchic balance of power between a privately armed populace and any and all government. The gun lobby, led by the NRA, would fight viciously to defeat any attempts to implement Judge Silberman's conclusions.
What the AHSA has not done is explained how its position on military-style rifles relates to the Supreme Court Miller Decision of the 1930s.
Relying on state court precedents, the Miller Court argued that all citizens are members of the unorganized militia (and therefore have an individual right to keep and bear arms), but the law only applies to weapons that could be useful to a militia (but if we can have those rifles and pistols, there's not much point to banning the rest). Since then, lower courts have maliciously misinterpreted Miller as saying that only _people_ who belong to the National Guard have a right to keep and bear arms.
So how does the AHSA explain its desire to ban military-style rifles (even non-machine guns of military style) with the Miller decision? Is it taking the approach that we DON'T have a Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms? Or are they ignorantly (or mischievously) ignoring the implications of the Miller decision?
Boris Resnick wrote:
"I used to think I was unique; I was a member of the NRA and the ACLU at the same time. I never could understand why the NRA only thought the 2d Amendment was important and not the other 10 or 20."
Actually, both the NRA and the ACLU joined to challenge the McCain Feingold campaign finance "reform" law, as an abridgement of free speech. Speaking for myself as an NRA Life mmber, that is the main issue we have with McCain, not his position on gun show sales by private individuals.
Boris is unbelieveably misinformed on the provisions of the NFA. He wrote:
"But, the proliferation of automatic weapons has made some parts of the US 'dicey.' Remember, the Treasury department made Thompson sub machine guns illegal during Prohibition and they did it for public safety as well as their Agents protection."
Wrong on all counts. Production of new fully automatic weapons for sale to citizens was ended in 1986, as part of the deal that got the GOPA passed. Hardly an enabling factor for proliferation.
The NFA of the '30's did not make possession of fully automatic weapons like the Thompson illegal, but instead imposed a $200 tax on transfer of these weapons. There is at least some evidence that that was done in order to avoid a Constitutional argument that a flat-out ban would be illegal. Under the current state of the law, one can legally own a pre-1986 full auto weapon, but they are scarce and the asking price for one is always in the thousands of dollars range. I know one Class 3 owner: he's a surgeon and can afford the $10,000 price tag for his weapons.
Do a donor search for all cycles on Ray Schoenke at OpenSecrets.org and see what you get. Contributions to Handgun Control Inc., the DNC, and an assortment of Dem candidates over the years. ASHA's president, Ray Schoenke, built the insurance firm, Schoenke & Associates, that is featured on that donor list.
Again, it is no surprise to me that ASHA saluted and then declared support for Obama who has earned an "F" from the NRA.
Yeah, Schoenke. Ran against corrupt Glendenning for gov as a Dem; organized 400 NFL players into, get this, McGoverniks; donated to Brady. A Quisling Fudd. He was advised to stick to insurance rather than politics way back when...I guess the advice still is relevant.
I guess he'd be safe to hunt with, he's obviously not very good at hitting the target.
Hey, lets give them a chance. I'm not going to join, but if they do want actual hunters to join, not just people who claim they are but in reality never shot a rifle, they must do SOMETHING that is of value to hunters. I know they are a front group for the brady campaign, an instrument to give anti gun politicians something to hide behind, an "alternative" position to quote in left newspapers, a website to go to, but in order to establish themselves in a half way plausible way they must establish something of actual substance. And here is where the fun begins. Anti gun politicians are usually completely removed from reality and surround themselves with liberal fringe groups. I always enjoy watching, when politicians fall apart because their fringe group allies cannibalize each other. Any politician seeking support from AHSA will in one way or the other alienate another fringe group, such as PETA. Real PRO GUN politicians don't have to worry about that, as they would never even try to appeal to kooks. *We*, in general are enjoying a net gain, as it is very unlikely that NRA members are also joining or switching to AHSA. Maybe some kooks will, after joining the NRA with the intended purpose of switching and loudly proclaiming that they have done so. Either way, AHSA must deliver something of value to hunters and therefore a portion of gun owners, OR they will miserably fail, costing the Joice foundation millions. I love it.
Comment By matt, 6-25-08Boris,
There is no proliferation of automatic weaponns. To legally purchase an automatic weapon requires a Federal Firearms Liscense and is very expensive. I actually blame the ACLU for making parts of the country dicey. They have tied the hands of law enforcement and the Border Patrol. They have left our borders wide open and made it impossible to crack down on gang bangers and other thugs. I disagree with the NRA on their opposition of the roadless rule and some other environmental issues, but they are the best friend of the 2nd amendment in this country has. And just because Heston had differing values than much of Hollywood does nto make him nuts, it just means he did not fall in step with the rest of Hollywood.
Let us please keep in mind that the 2nd amendment was never about hunting or the guns used for hutning. It was about guns used in warfare to defend oneself, nation, and liberty. Am assualt rifle is far more in keeping with the type of gun the founding fathers were speaking of than a double barrel shotgun.
Comment By matt, 6-25-08One last point. There is no "gunshow loophole". One has to go through the same NICS check as they would at a gun store.
Comment By Mike the Limey, 6-25-08Having seen the damage done to my Rights by so-called "shooting rights" groups here in the UK, I can only hope the AHSA continues to suck in funds from all the other "antis", whilst remaining marginalised & ineffective.
That way it's a win-win situation, as they waste money that could otherwise be used more effectively against US citizens' Right to keep & bear arms, whilst being ignored by those who matter.
Ray Schoenke:
“We think hunters and shooters could make the difference in some of these states,”
We're hoping to, Ray!
We'll beat anti-liberty Obama if it's up to us. :)
Gents, the idea here is not to convince sportspeople to actually join, the idea is to create the ILLUSION that some gun owners support gun control. Get a newspaper reporter that does not shoot, has never hunted, and some big manly ex football player with a Purdey side by side and hero-pictures will give the "other side" of the story. Actually, the only side. NRA at least has the integrity to refrain from claiming they are anything but what they are.
Ya know, if NRA got caught in this sort of blatant deception and falsehood, it would A1 in the Washington Post, as "NRA Lies." For AHSA and AGS, it's doe eyed innocence and limp-wrists from otherwise hard-bitten crusaders for the truth.
Lastly, One Who Knew, AHSA has nothing to offer sportsmen except those Fudds and sellouts and useful idiots that feel all warm and fuzzy when a reporter quotes them in the paper.
NRA has not endorsed McCain, and they gave him a C+ in 2004
Comment By Thomas Abdow, 8-12-08Mr. Obama does not believe in the 2nd Amendment. He is of the genre of politicians that believe "unarmed citizens make good subjects". You can see where his recent (last few months) statements on the 2nd amendment are completely unconstitutional and far from what the constitutional framers intended. Obama says in one breath that the 2nd amendment gives a right to keep and bear arms, but it in no way restricts "local" regulation. In other words, Obama, who would be president, falls in line with what the District of Columbia wanted for its citizen-subjects, i.e. - regulate the keeping and bearing of arms out of existence! No thanks Mr. Obama. Thank God we have a Supreme Court that stands for factually based constitutional rights, and sees how the circumstances and environment of the past applies directly to the present and future individual right to keep and bear arms. Make no mistake about it gentlemen and gentlewomen, if we for one second believe that our right to keep and bear arms comes from the "state" we have truly lost the freedom. The rights NOT granted to the states or reserved to the central - federal - government, reside with and always belong to the people, you and I. This includes freedom of speech, assembly, worship, and to redress grievances. Read the Declaration of Independence in its entirety if you have never done so, or if you haven't done so for a long time. Note that the framers and other real patriots, (like Daniel Shays from Pelham and Shutesbury, Massachusetts), came together to PUT DOWN THE UGLY HEAD OF TYRANNY. This is why we even have a 2nd Amendment and Bill of Rights. "Should the ugly head of Tyranny ever rise, the people, you and I have a sacred duty to put it down!" I personally am an honorably discharged veteran of the Vietnam Era, and and Attorney at Law. I also am admitted to practice before the highest court in the land. This means I have taken an oath to Protect the Constitution of the United States on at least three (3) times I can remember, and probably more given other offices I have held. I take this oath quite seriously, and anyone who does not, by his views or actions, is truly against my freedoms and the freedoms to be enjoyed as GOD given, for the generations to come. I cannot in good faith vote for Mr. Obama, as he is also askew on many other issues, both moral and legal. I wish him luck in his other endeavors, but he should not be president of a truly free country when he does not know what the 2nd Amendment really means. Citizens - NOT SUBJECTS - have a right to Keep and Bear Arms, and it is an inalienable right, that SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. As do our wonderful other freedoms, so does the 2nd Amendment come from God, not man.
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