By Nick Gier, New West Unfiltered 11-13-08
Hmm. The topic of religious persecution is always of interest to me, but especially when poor and segregated persons are involved, such as those in the communities discussed. I would be wary of putting the blame for the persecution of these individuals on Christian fundamentalists, however, as the sharing of religion throughout our world is not limited to simply Christians. Such comments are so very prejudiced and only encourage further hate. ugh.
Comment By Bojo, 11-17-08I agree with J Dub - it is unfair to blame Christian fundies for persecution when all they do is preach their faith, while others (i.e. Muslim and Hindu fundies) kill, kidnap, rape, and otherwise threaten violence against people of other faiths.
Religious fundamentalisms are not created equal. There's just no comparison between preaching in an "annoying" way and killing people because they have a different faith. No comparison.
And I'm no apologist for the Southern Baptist Convention, but using persuasive speech to peaceably convert is a model to emulate, not criticize. It is not exclusive religious notions, but the intolerance that resists a peaceable religious exchange of ideas - including conversions - that is truly dangerous. When people can cling to, discuss and propagate exclusive religious (i.e. fundamentalist) ideas, without bringing violence into the conversation, that's the heart of pluralism. Sadly, the author of this article seems to endorse the prejudice that all fundamentalisms are equally worthy of censure, and so seems to equate ALL exclusive religious ideas with persecution, when that is just simply not the case.
Thanks, Bojo. P.S. Love your "fundies". I find it interesting that our country-- and others-- examines Christianity as an evil, whilst endorsing mega-agriculture industries, who marr the countryside in China with corn and wheat crops, et. al, only to further fill its grody stomach with more Wheaties. Speaking peace and love-- and sharing it-- are not synoymous with murder. Exactamondo. And I agree that "annoying" preaching doesn't quite get the point across; unfortunatley, television has been the vehicle for that for quite some time. Maybe Mr. Gier can relate to bad church summer camps and such, but please don't blame the deaths of innocent folks on Christians... isn't faith a choice?
Comment By Nick Gier, 11-17-08Thanks for these comments. I submit that the Southern Baptists saying that Hindus have "dark souls" is not behavior to emulate, and I will repeat that it is "outrageous and destructive." That is the reason why, even though most Christian fundamentalists do not engage in violence, they, too, need to be criticized and censured. This type of language is hate speech.
This language is also bad Christian theology. According to the Bible all humans are created in the image of God. That means that all souls have the light of God in them and that is the basis for their capacity for conversion and having a spiritual life.
Some American fundamentalist churches do in fact connect violence and religion, as the LA church that put out signs at the beginning of the Iraq War saying that "Christ is our Commander in Chief," or Sarah Palin's former minister preaching that "Jesus is always in war mode." This, too, is outrageous and destructive behavior and should not be tolerated.
In the research that I've done for my book "The Origins of Religious Violence: An Asian Perspective," Hindus and Buddhists learned their fundamentalism from us. They did not act this way until Christian missionaries taught them that religions must be pure and that they must be based on literal reading of scripture (the definition of religious fundamentalism). And except for Japanese religious nationalists, religious fundamentalists in Asia learned to fuse national and religious identity, the mistake that most Christian and Muslim fundamentalists make. In the past this fusion of religious and national identity led to the loss of thousands and thousands of lives in Europe.
My Thanksgiving column (read it here) will be about New England Puritans executing Quakers because they did not follow their particular reading of the Bible. Our Pilgrim Fathers wanted religious freedom, but, sadly, only for themselves and not for people with whom they disagreed.
See rough drafts of my book at http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/orv.htm.
Prof. Gier, thanks for taking the time to read through and respond to our comments; I look forward to the Thanksgiving column with great interest. I agree with whole and heavy heart the thesis of your next article.
On the hate speech charge... hmmm. I respectfully disagree. I posit that the comments made about 'darkened souls' are indeed incautious at the least and destructive at worst, but do they not, in spite of that, allude to virtuous aspects of certain fundies' beliefs? To say non-Christian non-fundies are 'darkened' implies that those fundies want to 'enlighten' them with their Gospel, their good news. The phrase expresses awkwardly a desire to share the greatest good with others, with all peoples, by peaceable means. It is not hate speech; it is love speech, if the nature of speech is to be derived from intent alone.
If you say the hate speech element springs not from intent but content, I draw an analogy to the political arena. A rich spectrum of political views can only be preserved by freedom of speech. In fact, what is at one time considered malicious speech by the majority - i.e., slavery is evil, women have the right to vote, all men are created equal - is now regarded as the paragon of virtue. It is only the freedom to say what some might consider outrageous things that has brought about some of the most positive upheavals in history; great pioneers and prophets alike are usually considered outrageous in their day. While the right to censure others' speech must also be preserved, I urge caution before exercising that right against women and men of honest and good intent, regardless of their backgrounds and pugnaciousness (i.e., Southern Baptists).