New West Blog

Montana Opens Door for Horse Slaughter

Comment By Valerie James-Patton, 2-26-09

Bringing horse slaughter facilities back into the U.S., isn't going to stop the export of horses for slaughter, since horses were being exported to both Mexico and Canada, even when the plants were operating here, and as well, they were importing Canadian horses into the U.S. when the U.S. supply ran low. They'll continue to import and export horses depending on the supply and demand at whichever facility is in need, just like they always have.
And if Rep. Butcher had studied the horse slaughter issue further, he would have learned that horse slaughter is not a cure of a prevention to abandonment and abuse. People who abuse and neglect their horses, have never been known to take their horses to slaughter. The horse slaughter option has never been removed by the closure of the U.S. plants. Even from over the border last year, they were slaughtering more U.S. horses than they were when they were operating in the U.S. Auctions never stopped selling horses, and the kill buyers were buying an even higher number of American horses for export to slaughter after the plants closed. here. Because the slaughter option has been here all along, every abandoned horse claim last year and any current claims, are proof that slaughter doesn't stop anyone from abandoning a horse if that's what they intend to do. All they've had to do is just take the horse to a local auction, and if they can't be bothered by doing that, they're surely not going to bother taking it to a slaughter facility.
And I wonder if Rep. Butcher bothered to check into all the continued non-compliance violations that all 3 facilities were always cited for, such as polluting the streams and creeks with blood and offal, waste-water violations, and clogging up the city's sewage system. When he gets his horse slaughter facility, and finds he's still got abandoned and abuse cases, an increasing horse theft problem, and as well, problems from the facilities' pollution habits, he'll be getting exactly what he deserves. I'm just sorry that Montana citizens will be plagued with the problems as well.

Comment By Pronghorn, 2-26-09

The former mayor of Kaufman, TX, once home to the Dallas Crown horse slaughter plant, sent a letter to the Montana legislature detailing the reality of horse slaughter facilities--the pollution, noncompliance, cheating, and outrageous cruelty ("Behind the privacy fences of these plants, trucks arrived continuously and on those trucks was every form of inhumane violation one can imagine from mares birthing foals to horses with eyes dangling from their sockets and legs ripped from their bodies.") Read it in its entirety here
http://www.animallawcoalition.com/horse-slaughter/article/686

Nice job, Butcher. Decent people will begin fleeing this state, leaving it to the mental and moral knuckle-draggers. Maybe that's what they've had in mind all along.

Comment By Terrygean, 2-26-09

I quess the reps. in MT. must not know that the have the biggest slaughter horse feedlot in the U.S. in their town of Shelby. The lot is owned by Bouvry of Canada who ships his horses to Alberta & Quebec. They accept EIA possitive horses at the Shelby lot. Horses are shipped into that lot from all over the U.S. I don't see how building a horse slaughter plant in MT will keep horses from going to Canada. Maybe the money would be better spent on making sure the SHelby lot isn't contaminating the ground with their dead pit & the air with their manure fires. I object to horse slaughter because in U.S. culture we do not raise horses to eat nor do we eat horsemeat. My American culture is important to me, I guess it isn't to the reps. that want horse slaughter. I guess they prefer to sell out their culture for the almighty dollar. If they want to make horse meat part of their culture, I say move to France, Italy or a county that horsemeat is part of their culture.

Comment By vkennedy, 2-26-09

It is a complete untruth that old, sick and lame horses are the victims of horse slaughterhouses. UC Davis did a study that showed most of the horses are young, healthy and have no behaviorial issues. Montana will be disgraced should this come to pass. It is a PR disaster for this state. The symbol of the American West and cowboy country slaughtered to satisfy the stomachs of foreigners who can afford a "delicacy" of horsemeat.

Montana will become known as the "Judas" state if this horse slaugherhouse comes to pass. I am sorry to see it. Montana was a wonderful destination vacation for me. I won't be back should they make the tremendous blunder of bringing this shame upon the state of Montana.

Comment By Patricia Bewley, Vice President the RACE Fund, 2-27-09

Is it really necessary to open an equine slaughter house in Montana? Slaughter of horses has not stopped in America. They are being hauled to Mexico and Canada daily. So if all the stories are true about all the abandonded and starving horses are true, then what good is slaughter doing? If you wanted to send your horse to slaughter you can, just send it to the killer auction. For Ed Butcher to sugar coat this issue and make it like the answer to everybodies prayers is false and misleading. People of Montana ought to demand to know how much wealth this will put in their pockets or is it just for the instigator of this bill? What industry in this country has ever relyed on horses more than perhaps the cavalry, than ranchers. So this is how ranchers reward and fullfill stewardship of the horses they make a living with, send them to a terrifying death? I thought the people of Montana had more pride .

Comment By Bill Smith, 2-27-09

Well if Montana opens a slaughter house for horses I will never even drive through that state again nor will I buy anything form Montana. I am a VA farmer raising Boer meat goats and Angus beef as well as the owner of many horses. If you think they are going to be slaughtering old sick and lame animals for human consumption think again. If you are smart just ask yourself what kind of beef you want to eat. Do you want to eat old sick meat full of drugs or would you rather have nice young healthy beef to eat. If the people of Montana have any common sense at all they will understand that the horses that the killers will look for will be the nice young healthy plump horses that will bring them the most money. They are not going to be buying the neglected thin horses as there is no money in thin sick animals at auction. if only Butcher could be prosecuted for promoting a tainted food product.

Comment By Kevin wheeler, 2-27-09

Being from the south I probably don't have a dog in this race nearly as much as the folks in Montana or the animal rights groups. However, I am a horse owner, both Quarter and Tennessee Walkers and both are for pleasure. No other use. Standing on the outside looking in at this list of responses I see folks on both sides of the fence stating issues. However, no one is recommending or discussing a "better way". We will not fix/improve this issue without first analyzing why it occurs in the first place. That is our currrent state. What we want in the future should be the point of this discussion. The missing element I see here is the personal discipline on the part of "some" horse owners or slaughter house owners etc., to do the right thing. So, what is the right thing? The economy to some extent will contribute to this issue as a certain group of horse owners, because of layoffs or whatever will have to decide whether to feed family or animal. Yes, maybe they should have never had them but then again, that's not my right or your right to dictate in this country. Choices will have to be made at this point in their lives that you and I will disagree with but must accept and strive to change the outcome of that for the animal. So, lets agree, in the best interest of the animal to work together for that common good and solve this problem--instead of just bellyaching about the symptoms of the problem

Comment By Pronghorn, 2-27-09

If horse slaughter gives Montana a black eye, it will be the state's 2nd black eye. Montana already slaughters its wildlife--wolves and Yellowstone's genetically-unique wild bison, among others--to appease the livestock industry who refuses to make ANY meaningful accommodations. See http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org

But folks, please don't blame "the people of Montana" as a whole. Many of us are heartsick and mad as hell about the indecency committed in our names by our so-called representatives. You are right-on, it's always about money and the greed for more money (and power). Please contact our governor, Brian Schweitzer, and tell him that your vacation dollars will no longer be spent in Big Sky Country if horse slaughter commences and wildlife slaughter continues.

Comment By Wayne Johnson Ph.D., 2-27-09

Many of these horses are former race horses, they are young and healthy and Montana wants them dead. A tourist boycott of this state which kills wolves and buffalo too is what is needed.

Comment By jdj, 2-27-09

Did anyone notice this article in Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2212233/

Exactly the sort of thing Montana needs, this should boost tourism. When will legislators learn that politics and many of their silly policies are as much symbolic as anything. They continue to make Montana look silly, petty, and desperate.

Comment By C. Scott, 2-27-09

I have no problem with this. The meat industry in general is cruel. I see no reason at all that horses should be special and excluded from processing. I'd like the chance to try horse meat someday.

I think this would be an ideal use of the horse plague that our public lands and native wildlife in the west are subjected to. Get these non native range destroyers off of our public land and feed them to the French, a win, win for everyone.

Comment By ihavequestions, 2-27-09

A new plant could be designed from the ground up for optimum animal comfort and employees could be trained in proper horse handling. We, the public, can monitor a domestic facility. We, the public, can easily visit a domestic facility to look for adoptable horses. We can't do that with plants in Mexico and Canada. Death is never pretty, yet death is inevitable for all biological organisms. I think what folks really mean to focus on is the reduction of needless suffering. The reality of caring for 1000+ plus animals is quite different than caring for a 50 pound dog. No one loves horses more than I do; I care for a herd of 30 and do only very limited horse breeding, raising an occasional foal for myself. I have also adopted several elderly horses and given them a home. But, I am tired of how we have let the bleeding hearts make herd management decisions for everyone else. Don't approve of slaughtering horses? Then don't do it, and go adopt horses that are going to kill buyers. But don't remove the slaughter option for other people who (boo-hoo) don't share your ideals in that regard.

Comment By morequestions, 2-27-09

A horse is a horse. ihavequestions has a wonderful response to all those of you who want to blackmail Montana by staying away. I certainly won't miss you and yours. I have traveled outside of our great state and have never met anyone who gives a damn about our Montana ranchers favoring cattle over buffalo. We have more buffalo than the land available can sustain. Perhaps Central Park in New York should take them as well as the wolves that city slickers want us to maintain for thier fantasy.

Comment By Mickey Garcia, 2-28-09

Horse burgers taste good and wild horses need to be harvested because they are doing environmental damage. Ask the French what wine they recommend with horse meat. What's the problem?

Comment By MGM, 3-02-09

I really do not believe anyone "wants"to slaughter horses. Many times it is a very painful decision. Starvation and abandonment are also painful for the horse. Many horses are kept in stalls, barns, corrals, and small pastures, where feed and water are monitored and available. In Mt., people are finding horses that have been dumped on private land and on the Indian reservations that do not have a clue how to fend for themselves. These horses don't know where to find water, there are fences they try to get through and get horribly wire cut, and predators. Yes, the bleeding hearts that want wolves have obviously never heard an animal scream because it is being eaten alive. I admit I have never heard a horse scream for this reason, but I have heard a buffalo bellowing. It was bone chilling. In Mt. we will have the ability to handle horses and the kill floor as humanely as possible. With the controversy, there will be strict monitoring. A quick kill is more humane than slow starvation. Abandonment is cruel when horses are turned out in areas of National Forest or plains or dessert. Some of the comments say to take the horses to auction yards. I do not believe these people understand the economics of the auction yards. There is a seller fee that is often more than what the horse is sold for. Aroumd the country, there are several auction yards are not accepting horses any more. At least horses that are not completely sound. It is against the law in many places to bury your dead horse no matter if it died a natural death or was put down due to injury or no recovery illnesses. It is a huge problem of what to do for horses that can no longer be cared for. This is a solution that can be monitored, besides giving an economic boost to the state. We are in the beginning of a depression. People are going to be hungry more so now than they have been. With millions out of work and businesses going broke, there will be even more people without jobs and money to support families. Pets and lifestyles will suffer. People who could afford horses before, won't be able to, and the unwanted, uncared for will only increase. This slaughter plant will be a solution.

Comment By mary morton, 3-02-09

greed is what has put this country in the mess it is in. what is next do we set up a slaughter house for cats and dogs for the asian and oriental sect.

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-02-09

If you have ever loved a horse and watched him slowly die of starvation because one couldn't float his teeth anymore and he couldn't eat because he couldn't chew his food. It just tears the horse lover-owner apart. To looke at him always produced tears. He starved to death because we didn't have a slaughter-house to take him to. Then you can't even bury them because it's against the law you watch the love of your/his life of 23 yrs is picked and eaten by the scavengers. So you cry a lot.

Comment By eva, 3-03-09

Again with the ranchers.
There are 2 problems with the reasoning for having slaughter houses.
1. Saying slaughter houses are a cheap and an easy way to get rid of a horse doesn't add up with the fact that ranchers can afford to ship them to Mexico!
2. Slaughter isn't humane.
A Montanan treats their 20 year old truck better than their horse. I'd like to see a Montanan send their old old pickup to a junk yard.

Comment By morequestions, 3-03-09

again with the misinformation---what does Eva think it costs to ship to Mexico from Montana----Eva has a wierd idea about old, old ranch trucks--admittedly some of them are simply abandoned out back, but many an old mechanical horse gets traded off to crueler and crueler masters until they end up in the junk yard---ranchers can be so cold when it comes to worn out equipment---Eva says slaughter isn't humane--she should read some of the knowledgeable replies above to learn what really is inhumane---again with the people who just refuse to "get it"

Comment By Patricia Bewley, Vice President the RACE Fund, 3-03-09

Irene did you ever hear of a VET, a humane euthanasia . If you loved this horse so much he deserved a decent death and not in the horror of the slaughter house.

Comment By Julia, 3-03-09

Slaughterhouse is a euphemism for torture chamber. Take sick horses to the vet for humane euthanasia. Put the sadists out of business.

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-04-09

Thank you very much for the vet advice. How does the vet dispose of the animal? I was told it was against the law to bury them. It makes more sense to furnish cat and dog food from the slaughterhouse as we also love our domestic pets.

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-04-09

As long as it is profitable to slaughter these horses - there will be more in the ranks. It is a nasty business passed of as some kind of "humane and compassionate" gesture. Want to be really "humane"? Stop breeding these animals to begin with. Quit buying/wearing leather - Go Vegan

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-04-09

Oh - and I forgot to mention - seems like Montana is one more killing kind of state. Between the coyotes and horses... I thought I'd drive through on my way to California... I'm definately passing another way.

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-04-09

I hate to tell you - that I live in Montana - We ride and love our horses. We pleasure ride, use them to trail cattle, fix fence in mountaineous areas, etc. I don't wear leather - it's too stiff and uncomfortable, plus expensive. We wear clothes that save our life when we are miles from civilization. Living in the country and I mean real country, not a suburb, horses are dependable and warm to ride bareback, that's why we love them, cars and trucks are not dependable in below zero weather. You say - "Want to be really "humane"? Stop breeding these animals to begin with. Quit buying/wearing leather - Go Vegan"

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-04-09

Bea: Maybe Montana would be too wild for you. Try meeting a mountain lion in the middle of the night, when you are checking a cow's or pig's birthing as many times our domestic stock need help with the calf/pig delivery or they can die without a human's help. Also the coyotes are getting closer and closer to our domincile, as they are definitely making an impact on the number of deer that are in the pasture. Coyotes, mountain lions, wolves many times live in the area where is it easier to kill to eat. Well, you can say "You choose to live there" - that is correct. But if we all lived in towns and cities, you all should have big gardens. Or maybe just raise rabbits in your backyard for meat. Now I'm being facetious, but I thought perhaps you might like to hear about life in Montana or Wyoming as it really is. You may have the last reply as I have a job also to go to, one besides the country, that I must have to be able to live in our beautiful, wild and wonderful state. A native Montanan

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-04-09

You mean your "wild slaughtering state" don't you? "Your domestic pigs, cows, etc." Of course they "need" your protection - you brought them to being in the first place - for "meat" that is not "necessary". The "protein myth" is old and has been discredited nicely in the last 5 years of research - We can feed 6 times as many people on a (healthier) plant based diet. It's time to let go of animals as our "meal ticket" - it's destroying the planet and eco system. It is not sustainable. Not "necessary" at all. With the inevitable water shortages predicted in the near future - I'm anxious to see how readily the nation will want to feed animals the plants they could be eating instead. Droughts are nasty business... Animal agriculture uses hundreds of times more water than what is needed to live on a plant based diet. Go Vegan

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-04-09

Thanks for your insight. I see where you are coming from, tell the native Americans your theory. They ate both and they survived circumstances beyond our wildest imagination. Let's say I was a vegetarian, what does it have to do with our horses and what can we do, other than the vet, who is still bound by our state and cannot bury an animal - I'm sure you'll say an incerator, (I bet there are state laws about that - pollution of the air? Je ne sais pas!)? I know you'll have an answer - I'm happy you can buy the vegetables and fruits that you need for survival - you live in a wonderful state that can provide well for you and the millions who live there. We love Montana and its big sky and miles of open plains and mountains and prairies.

Comment By Mickey Garcia, 3-04-09

There is a specialty breed of horse, I don't remember its name right now. It's small, not a miniature, hairier than other horses during the winter, acts more like a dog than a horse. I think there used to be a breeder in Nevada. Anyway, its lineage with humans goes back thousands of years with a small remote tribe in Tibet, I believe. The tribe developed and used this horse for everything. House pet, Milk source, food and hide source, beast of burden etc. The Laplanders used Reindeer in the same way before they got snowmobiles. So please reconsider your modern sentimentalities in light of human's ancient and intimate relationship with the horse.

Comment By Pronghorn, 3-04-09

To Irene C: Mountain lions, the occasional bear, and coyotes occasionally visit my neighborhood. Wolves have been sighted. A deer was killed and consumed not far behind my house. My cats never go outside, my dog doesn't run free unsupervised. I take my calculated chances when I go running or hiking. I do my best to accommodate the native wildlife. Montana is not too wild for me.

I have friends who keep anywhere from a couple to four rescue horses. When they die, or need to be humanely euthanized, they call a vet and then have the horse buried--it isn't illegal, it depends on where the water table is located. Do your homework.

Comment By Serena, 3-04-09

How can anyone make the argument that horse slaughter is humane when in actuality, they can't even find a humane way of TRANSPORTING these animals to the slaughter facility?

After a Freedom of Information Act request was FINALLY granted, the USDA has been required to release pictures of horses who were injured or killed during double-decker rides to the slaughterhouse.

Humane euthanasia, or a bullet in the brain, is better than this.

WARNING: Extremely graphic. Don't look if you can't handle it. But if you want to know the truth, help yourself.

http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/foiaphotos.html

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-04-09

On "humane slaughter" no matter what (animal) victim - horse, kangaroo, seals, cows, pigs, dolphins, chickens etc.... The soul motivation being "profit"... And it's only a blissful fool who believes in "humane slaughter". http://www.humanemyth.org

Comment By Treehuggin' Cowgirl, 3-05-09

Bea,

I'll give you credit. At least you're a vegan. Few things are as irritating as someone waxing sentimental about horses being friends while eating a ribeye. I admire that your have a firm set of beliefs that you implement in your life.

As a former vegan, horse and mule owner, aspiring gardener and chicken raiser, I choose to focus my food habits on local. Because of the petroleum required for shipping and packaging, it is far more environmentally sound for me to eat a chicken from my backyard or a cow from the Bitterroot Valley than soybeans farmed in South America (now among the leading cause of deforestation in the Amazon). I'm not perfect at eating locally, but I'm improving. It will always be tough in a northern state.

You are correct that factory farming is not a good thing. More calories are fed in the form of farm produce in feedlots than we later get out of the meat we eat. If most of us actually acknowledged how the animals were treated, we'd never be okay with eating them.

However, many places in the West are now focusing on "grass finished" and "free range" livestock. In the arid climate we live in, ranching is the highest food use of that land. In addition, ranchlands can still provide wildlife habitat. How many wolves, bears or eagles have you ever seen on a farm? Livestock raised in this way and then slaughtered humanely is environmentally sound.

Historically veganism is rare. Almost every culture ate meat for their sustenance. Even the Tibetans, so well known for doing no harm to other life, eat meat. In fact, their sensibility is often to kill fewer larger animal (i.e. a cow) instead of many smaller animals (i.e. fish), so that they get the most nutritional bang for their karmic buck.

Meat does have an important nutritional role for humans. Many vegans (perhaps you are an exception) require extensively processed protein and iron supplements to remain healthy or turn to some rare natural source that couldn't possibly provide enough iron or protein for the current human population. In addition, most gardeners use some form of manure for fertilization. There is a proper balance of meat and vegetables for sustainability.

As far as horses and slaughter goes, it's every individual's decision what they do with their animals. I personally appreciate the sentiment of not wasting perfectly good meat, but would not let the animals I love go through that experience. As for animals I don't love . . . it's really not my problem. I'd rather see them used than in a landfill.

Americans really need to face up to the realities of living. It requires the death of something, whether it's horses, corn plants, bunnies under the plow or migratory birds who find their nesting ground turned into a field. One of the realities of being a horseowner anywhere remote (most of Montana) is being prepared to end your partner's suffering with a merciful bullet instead of waiting hours for a vet to arrive or leaving a horse for dead in the backcountry. Those of us who have confronted that reality are going to have a different attitude from "stable and arena" horse owners.

As for all of you who now aren't going to vist Montana. Good Riddance! Go to Colorado instead. They're already overrun with tourists. We only need to sacrifice one Rocky Mountain state to ranchettes and "true western experiences." Most of you can't afford the luxury of and expensive vacation anyways now that the economy's in the pits.

Erin

Comment By C. Scott, 3-05-09

"In the arid climate we live in, ranching is the highest food use of that land. ...Livestock raised in this way and then slaughtered humanely is environmentally sound."

Erin, can you please explain to me how diverting streams to grow feed and killing everything from gophers to predators is environmentally sound?

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-06-09

This has been the most enlightening, educational forum that I have been involved. Thanks for the correction on the burial of horses. I'm sure it would take a long time to dig a hole large enough and then you would have to pull it into the hole. Even the eagles and hawks have to have protein. Strange - why isn't the vegetation enough for them? Thanks for your input Tree-Hugging Cowgirl. Whether it's dog or cat food, hawk or eagle food we all end up recycled.

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-06-09

Treehuggin' Cowgirl... I take it that you were a vegan only in your dietary choices... I am a vegan in more than my eating pattern - Veganism goes beyond what I ingest... it goes to what I believe and that is to do as little harm as possible. And honestly, when you say that wildlife can coexist with ranching I read everyday that measures must be taken to protect cattle from wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, etc. Even bison are "harvested" because they "compete" with grazing livestock.

And veganism may have been rare in the past - people were forced to survive on any substainance they could. But we're speaking of today's situation... and odds are if anyone is reading these comments online - they have a Walmart or other "grocery store" where every choice can be made by what "humane" items are placed in the buggy. For the amount of fuel in transporting "meat on the hoof" - and the electricity in "processing" and keeping their carcasses/flesh cold/frozen... we could have built hundreds of hydroponic facilities even in the most remote areas of the U.S. And because industrial greenhouse farming actually creates 90% of the water it needs brings me to discuss the next wasteful resource about animal agriculture... water.

Because as far as livestock is concerned... if predictions are correct water will become more scarce in decades to come. The awful downside to animal agriculture, (be it on factory farms or natural conditions)... water used to "process" meat is off the charts in comparison. Not to mention the toxic contaminants in making "leather"... After all, the mandate seems to be to eek every bit of "profit" from these animals (as long as we're killing them anyway). Leather is one of the top polluters on the planet and can leave acres of land and miles of water shed "dead" for decades. So even the best of "free range" livestock uses an extreme quantity of water and also degrades fresh water as well.

And as far as "meat does have an important nutritional role for humans"... we consume more than twice what our bodies need in the way of "protein". Check your local emergency room sometime... odds are most are admitted because of obesity, diabetes complications, stroke and heart issues - attributed to meat-based diets. I doubt you'll find many in the hospital due to a lack of B12, iron... or "protein" defeciencies. Go to your doctor and ask him if he recommends you consume more vegetables or more "meat".

Back to horse slaughter - "wasting perfectly good meat"... wait! I thought these were sickly, diseased and starving horses? Or are they young healthy ones? Which is it? As long as it is profitable - people will continue to over-breed these animals. It's just simple, basic human nature... and a sad fact of "economics". Imagine if we were able to make money each time our dog or cat had a litter, simply by sending them off to slaughter? Think we have a pet overpoupulation problem now... At $20/dog: I shudder to think how many would find a way to break into that market. If you use animals as "commodities" - there will never be an end to their value - hence their exploitation and their suffering.

And of course life involves "dying"... After due time on this earth - no one will escape this - but you are talking about "killing" which is entirely different. Especially "profit motivated killing" - Most animals are killed as juveniles or at best young adolescents. Animal agriculture gives the illusion that these animals live "rich full lives". Let's examine: a broiler chicken goes from egg to slaughter in less than 45 days - life expectancy: 15 years. Pigs live well into their 20's... they are "bacon" at 6 months old. Cows - some on sanctuaries have lived into their 30's... They are *meat* at 10 months... And then animal agriculture can get even more brutal with "infantcide"... bob veal: 3 weeks old... Kip... born on the kill floor. Is this the natural course of "dying" that you were referring to?

I'm still standing my ground - animal agriculture is not only inhumane - because we don't "need" to kill animals but it's also unsustainable. If we reach 10 billion people by 2050... there simply will not be enough land, water or energy to live on a meat based diet. And heavens, I hope by then we will convert to a more compassionate and viable way of sharing this planet with other beings.

Comment By morequestions, 3-06-09

"Here's to you, Bea". I just cannot "resist" the "opportunity" to "respond" to your latest "rant". I have been around "cattle ranching" a bit and loved your "comment" about "obese people" in the "emergency room" because they eat "meat". In my "experience" big old "cows" got that way because they are "vegans". Thanks for the opportunity to use my "quotation marks".

Comment By Treehuggin' Cowgirl, 3-06-09

Bea,

I think you hit the head on the nail all by yourself. Everyday you "read" about everything that happens up here in Montana. Come with open eyes, ears and mind and see it for yourself before you judge everything we do.

I'm not going to get into the wolf debate here. Suffice it to say, I'm glad that our President is removing them from the Endangered Species List and that wolves being scared of humans is better for both the humans and the wolves. Coyotes rarely pose a threat to cattle, and what's being done to the bison in Montana is ridiculous, absurd and unethical.

I was a vegan for environmental reasons - primarily unnecessary water consumption - and not animal rights reasons. I have never understood why animal rights activists are fine with killing plants but not animals.

I agree about industrial livestock production. It's not pretty and it's wasteful, and I'm focusing on changing my habits to not support it. I also agree that Americans eat more meat than is sustainable, but you're arguing for elimination not reduction.

As for what horses go, you're right that many young horses do go to slaughter. Some of them are permanently lame and will never be usable. Some of them are horses so poorly bred that they little to no use either due to physical or mental deficiencies - crazy horses do exist. Some of them have been handled so poorly in the past that quite frankly it's not worth anyone's time to try to bring them back.

I'm sorry if this sounds callous, but quite frankly I don't care very much if a horse or cow or dog or chicken dies that I don't have a personal connection to. It's not that I value humans more than animals. I value my animals whom I love more than most humans I know, but being a bleeding heart for each and every individual is a waste of time and unnecessary. I'm more concerned about the long term viability of habitat where wild animals can continue to thrive.

I actually have been to the emergency room for iron deficiency - aka anemia. It's a common condition for women, particularly those with a primarily vegetable diet. In additon, every female - and several male - vegetarian I have known who took a job doing physical work at a high eleveation - including myself - quit being a vegetarian within two months. Not eating enough protein or iron isn't nearly as big of a deal if you never use those red blood cells or muscles.

Bea, I think the main difference between us is the concept of naturalness. I would rather personally kill a million animals myself than see the wild country that I love covered with hydroponic farms and factories for turning iron into little non-violent pills. I see habitat destruction as a far greater violence than the killing of a single animal. You clearly disagree, but I have no desire to force you to eat cows, horses or dogs. Eat what you want.

I hope you transcend "basic human nature" and can meet all your energy needs from the sun, but I revel in the fact that I am an animal and an active part of both life and death. Remember that misanthropes by definition hate themselves. I think its a little more adult to accept that our actions to stay alive inevitably results in others - animal and plant - not staying alive and to face that and be willing to the dirty work myself instead of letting a grocery store supplier do it for me.

I maintain that it is more morally, economically and environmentally sound and results in less animal deaths to eat an omnivore local diet than to eat vegan at Walmart.

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-06-09

morequestions - Sorry if my quotation marks irritated you - but they are necessary and correct when referring to someone else's words or when using words that tend to have dual meanings. Further, what I said was hardly a "rant"... I stated a reasonable rebuttal based on a sufficient amount of valid points. Please debate the premise... not the person - I refer to "old cow" comment... If you defend your point with a bit less hostility, you might actually make some sense... and encourage civility :).

To Treehugging Cowgirl... "I have never understood why animal rights activists are fine with killing plants but not animals." Well, that goes to biology 101... you see, there's animal (that's us)... vegetable (the stuff that's food)... and rocks, dirt etc. Vegetables and rocks - trees, minerals, can't feel pain - nor is either "sentient"... grass is not "aware of the world" - nor is a copper mine "aware of the world". Animals are. All of us - we know we are in it. We know that we exist. We all, birds, cats, cows and man - wish to live. Potatos and stones don't have any concept either way. This is why killing animals, who have hearts, eyes, mouths, nerves, tissue and feel pain and bleed - *just like us* - is so offensive to some. It's called empathy -

And I don't know if you were intimating that I am a misanthrope. Actually, I love man so much that it sorrows me that every 4 seconds someone dies due to starvation. You see, a meat based diet will feed one person - while a plant based diet will feed the world... many times over. 10 to 1 actually. So I'm really not the people hater at all.

The idea of hydroponic farming doesn't mean an end to wild lands - in means preservation for it. Hydroponic farming is done vertically... using a fraction of acreage by the ability to go up & up and away - http://beaelliott.blogspot.com/2009/01/vertical-gardens-green-living-leave-cow.html It is the sustainable way to the future... and will restore our land to the pristine condition it was given to us in.

And finally, your comment about "iron deficiency - aka anemia" check the statistics at CDC - it's rare and mostly seen in infants, and females between the ages of 12 & 47. Who by the way, are eating an omnivore's diet. BTW - I'm 54, do 6 to 8 hours of hard, physical work daily... I take no supplements. Everything one needs to thrive can be found in a plant based vegan diet.

Comment By Laura Houston, 3-12-09

The horses they slaughter are not old,sick horses. People with old companion animals have them humanely put to rest! Nothing about horse slaughter is humane, to most people it's like killing your old pet dog for a coat- for Gods sake.

The horses they kill, by the thousands according to the usda reports of breeds are mostly quarter horses and standardbreds. Those horses come from breeders on large horse ranches,,,those breeders should pay for their excessive over-production of horses.

Horses are NOT CHICKENS or PIGs..please take their oversight away from usda and place them under companion animal oversight.

Horse slaughter just STINKS going back to the old days of the 1960s when you horse-killers killed off 500,000 wild horses a year!

MONTANA THE HORSE KILLERS STATE!! don't make this statement your new state! BUMPER STICKER.

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-12-09

Laura Houston --- This subject has turned into ridiculous. I imagine every state has something to write about but interesting to live in Montana and have everyone tell us how to live, think and do. Let's try Alaska for awhile.

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-12-09

Irene... Horse slaughter issues also exist in other states... another hot bed being North Dakota. And Alaska's got it's hands full too, trying to defend it's deplorable assult on wolves and polar bears - I'm not too fond of the Northern states either... new bear hunting laws and killing Canadian geese... It's a shame. Feral pigs in Texas, prarie dogs, coyotes, mountain lions, alligators - each state it seems, is in this unpopular position of having conflict with "overpopulated" animals. Yet, there is a growing respect for the life of these beings - horse slaughter just does not fit with this ethic.l

Comment By Joy West, 3-24-09

To those who oppose horse slaughter: I am a horse lover and breeder- how many horses have you owned/raised in your life????! I bet I have raised, owned, loved more!!! With the exception of my time obtaining a degree at the University of California, I have lived in agricultural communities my entire life. Can you say the same? I am so sick of people with less experience with livestock than me and my family telling anyone who will listen what is best for the livestock industry!!! The first inhabitants of Montana- the Native Americans used horses for many purposes- including eating horse meat. How many horses do you take care of every day???? I take care of over 150!!! Plus cattle and goats. With what is going on in this country currently- HORSE SLAUGHTER IS THE HUMANE SOLUTION!!!

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-24-09

Joy West - You expressed yourself much better than I did. Thank you. Irene

Comment By Laura Houston, 3-24-09

Montana - killing millions of horses for how many years? and now you killers don't even have to ship to Canada to slaughter!

Montana the horse killing State!

And you horse breeders..must be very proud to know you personally have the blood of 200 horses on your hands! what's next? skinning puppies for fur-coats?

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-25-09

Well we have pretty well exhausted this topic. Each one of us, each state, each government has their own ideas about what and could be done when there is a problem. Aren't we fortunate to have been entitled to air our own opinions? It's been an interesting month airing and reading comments. Au revoir!

Comment By cricketgurl, 3-29-09

A few comments regarding the previous comments I have just read:
Whoever said horse slaughter is a necessity because "wild horses are destroying the environment" is an ignorant fool. Anyone who has taken the time to read unbiased articles on wild horses and their "impact" on the environment and the reasons they are being rounded up would realize that these roundups are simply motivated by cattlemen who want the land only for their cattle and are interested in the extermination of wild horses for their own selfish reasons...not because of any environmental impact. They keep moving cattle further into the natural domain of these wild horses, forcing the horses to compete with cattle for food to survive. Secondly, no one should even buy the argument that horses sent to slaughter are old, sick or crippled. Numerous studies have been done regarding horses sent to slaughter and they have found 80% of these horses are in completely healthy and rideable. Many of them are pregnant horses and draft horses or draft cross, desireable since the kill buyers get more money for a horse depending on it's weight. I can't believe that this newspaper would print an article such as this without doing their homework first and spreading the myth that only the sick old and crippled horses are slaughtered, leading the public to think this is a humane alternative. If anyone wants the real story, all they have to do is google "horse slaughter" and they will find out the truth and how incredibly awful it is. People need to stop breeding more horses and taking responsibility for the ones they own and if they are no longer rideable or they cannot feed them, take them to a rescue, find a home for them or have them put down humanely....it's the least we owe to an animal who in many cases taught our children to ride, gave us their companionship willingly and hours of service.

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-29-09

cricketgurl - you make total sense to me. These are not "old, diseased, crippled animals"... They are just "last year's model". The result of too many people breeding too many animals for profit. If we continue to reward their greed - there will always be a horse "overpoulation" problem. No one wants to admit that it's all about the money - but that's exactly what it is.

Comment By Irene Chrest, 3-29-09

I have a terrific idea. I nominate Laura Houston, Cricketgurl and Bea Elliott to receive and provide a retirement pasture for these horses that are old, injured and those who just need a home. You will be blessed now and in (your) our afterlife. All in favor, say "Aye". Irene

Comment By Bea Elliott, 3-29-09

How about we just not make money from their slaughter? And we stop robbing the wild ones of their grazing pasture in order to accommodate cattle interests? I'm sure at that point many things (eventally) will work themselves out. It's just common sense, if people make a profit from slaughtering horses... there will always be a "need" to slaughter them. The long term solution is to stop creating more. It's that simple.

Comment By Ken, 4-09-09

Maybe this is an abandoned post, but I'll give it a go. I come from Scandinavia, and was struck by amazement the first time an american guest, omnivore as such, was acting negative towards the host to a dinner we were both attending, for serving horse-meat. It's not especially common here, but there is quite not the same stigma towards horse-meat as to anyone actually suggesting forbidding horse-slaughter as opposed to any slaughter. Anyway, myself I eat vegan most of the time, except when offered meat, for the same reasons as Treehuggin' Cowgirl was once. I do believe that there is an edge to eating mostly vegan(if you do it with proper foods, and your body responds well). Even with imported stuff. By the way, aren't you a lentil-producing state? :) However, what is this business with horses? I see no reason why you should not slaughter horses when all other slaughter is legal. Are horses perticularly problematic to slaughter as opposed to cows? Do they have universal knowledge of the truth, do they cry when brought to the abbatoir, or what...?

Comment By Mickey Garcia, 4-09-09

The only problem is a cultural or subcultural problem. Some cultures develop taboos against eating certain animals based on the amount of affection they have for the animal in question. Some cultures have developed taboos against eating dogs, horses, dolphins
cats, monkeys, and whales because these animals are considered to be pets or to be more intelligent than other animals. Other cultures hunt these animals and eat them. Its only a matter of taste and affection which differs among cultures or tribes.

Comment By Mickey Garcia, 4-09-09

And of course most cultures or tribes don't consider it polite to eat one another.

Comment By Ken, 4-09-09

Yeah, I guess this is an issue in all cultures, also these of ours we like to think of as post-modern. But it is not doing the animals any favours. You see this in India, where in predominantly Hindu states, surplus cows and male calfs are transported to states where cattle slaughter is allowed, often with the acceptance or at least a blind eye from the ones that would refuse to do this themselves. It is not a pleasant trip, and not a pleasant welcome at the slaughterhouse either. If the slaughterhouses had been in the jurisdiction of the origin, where there is a relatively high interest in the welfare of cattle, they would at least be awarded being subject to more rigorous regulation of the conditions they were slaughtered in.

Comment By Adam Steel, 6-24-09

A documentary is in the works that will address the issues threatening America’s beloved equines. Change For Balance Productions, a multi-media production company based out of Orange County California, has taken on the task of creating an educational and inspirational documentary to raise awareness about the struggles facing America’s equines. They are collaborating with the Huntington Central Park Equestrian Center to create Equine Destiny, a documentary that will address important issues such as: abandonment, abuse and slaughter, while highlighting success stories and tangible solutions to these problems. (http://www.EquineDestiny.com)

Comment By Comanche, 9-17-09

slaughter is a must. horses are not pets they are livestock. i have my own horses and i love them very much but its due to inexperienced horse owners breeding counterfiet horses and the fact that man has ruled out disease and natural predetors. its jsut like if we stoped deer season we would be over run with deer in the cities and everywhere else damageing crops and vehicles. horses wil do the same thing. how would one of u anti slaughter people like to be driving to work one day in ur high rise office and hit a horse on the highway because it had to where else to go? hmm? u wouldnt like that very much would u. in fact slaughter will bring the horse market back up to where it was when i was growing up. hroses arent worth any money any more. kill buyers will bring that market back up and it will help simulate the economy. but no all u anti people still think of horses as cute and cuddly PETS. they are not pets they are livestock and yes i do think we should start slaughtering cats and dogs to becuase then we wouldnt have to waste our money on the humane society takin care of the unwanted ones. there wouldnt be strays or wild dogs running along the forests near where im from killing off our livestock because some idiot over bred his dozens of females that had no reason to be bred.

Comment By Bea Elliott, 9-17-09

Comanche - Your solution to slaughter everything kind of reminds me of a short little frustrated man with a funny mustache in Germany some 80 years ago... Narrow minded and cruel. Slaughtering "for profit" isn't the solution because it will only continue the practice. And your use of the word "livestock" - you really mean to say "dead-stock" don't you? For living beings are worthless to you unless you can turn a buck on their flesh.

And as far as being over run with deer and the potential problem of including horses in the mix -- Why don't we just stop breeding BOTH? A deer overpopulation "problem" only exists to facilitate the hunters enjoyment of the taking of them. Why else would we have more than 15,000 deer and elk breeding "farms" in the US? Of course it's for the money --- Same as breeding horses.

Really, the idea of sentient beings used as "commodities" is becoming less and less desirable by civilization. There's a reason why society is uncomfortable with it --- It's ethically wrong and not sustainable. These are slow steps that march to man's progress rather than keep him waist deep in the muck of our premordial ancestors. Please, for the sake of humanity itself... please evolve.

Comment By Jim, 9-17-09

wow--posting three months after the last comment--almost like flogging a dead horse [deadstock]

Comment By Adam, 9-17-09

While slaughter is a major problem, closing down slaughter plants in the US clearly didn't cure it. Where there is a market to make profit, someone will find a way to capitalize on it. We need to have regulation on breeding, especially in the AQHA to curb the demand for overseas horse meat. Not only is the process inhumane, but the horse we are selling them are filled with harmful drugs including Bute which destroys the kidneys in humans. There are many others affecting America's horses which translate directly the Americans. The 10,000's of of horses in Premarin Farms are not only mistreated, but the drugs using Premarin have shown to increase Cancer, Heart-attack and stroke by over 25%. If anyone holds ties to the American culture and claim they are patriotic, they cannot support the mistreatment of the animal that built this country through wars, agriculture, westward expansion, etc. Visit http://www.EquineDestiny.com and support the film that will turn the tide for America's equines.

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