Wolf Pelts Piling Up
The Wolf Hunts By the Numbers
The spuds boycott has been a dud. Pro-wolf petitions are rolling. Hunters are having a blast.
By Amy Linn, 10-26-09
As Montana’s wolf hunt wags on, and so does the one in neighboring Idaho, it’s interesting to note what’s come to pass—and what hasn’t. Here are a few factoids to chew on:
--More than 70 wolves have been killed in Idaho, where hunters are allowed to bag 220 wolves total.
--Twenty three wolves have been shot during Montana’s wolf hunting season, 11 of them this past weekend alone, according to the Great Falls Tribune. The state quota is 75.
--Wolf hunting has already been shut down in the southern section of the Montana outside Yellowstone National Park, because the 12-wolf quota there has been met.
--Before the start of the hunts this fall, wildlife officials in both Montana and Idaho predicted that shooting a wolf or even seeing one would be tough. Some chin scratching has now ensued.
--Defenders of Wildlife has launched an online petition urging Interior Secretary Ken Salazar to undo his action this spring, when he took wolves in the Rockies off the Endangered Species list and stripped them of federal protections. The group hopes to get 100,000 signatures. It has 90,347 so far.
--Friends of Animals has a similar petition drive. The group is asking wolf fans to send letters to Idaho Gov. C.L. Otter and Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer and is urging them to boycott the two states and everything they produce, from Idaho spuds to huckleberry syrup. FOA aims to hunt down 1,000 signatures for its petition. It has just 574 so far.
--The wolf hunt in Montana has raised some $245,000 for the state in license fees alone, according to the Helena Independent Record. It will continue to raise hackles, as well.
[End of article]
Too much opinion and/or inflammatory language in the article. This issue already has enough controversy around it and we don't need to fan the flames. Please stick to reporting the unembellished facts; and work to ferret out other facts to report.
thanks,
Are you aware that coyotes and dogs kill approximately 22 times more livestock that wolves? Or that the tourism economic value of wolves is over 300 million per year. When wolves were reintroduced in 1995 economists predicted that the economic value of increased tourism with people coming to view the wolves would be only 34 million. That sum has increased ten fold. So although $245,000 was raised in permits to hunt, what will be the long term economic loss to the public by the loss of tourism dollars?
Comment By Jack Wallingford, 10-27-09I cannot believe it. they have 75 wolves down in idaho and the nos. as predicted pretty well dried up. if they hit 200 it will be a miracle. yet, the predictions and all the nonsense regarding these nos. are whack as well. the first day a bunch of guys shot wolves. then some more were killed. so how many in the past two weeks? once the wolves knew they were being shot at it was all over. wake up. we aren't decimating, we are thinning the herd. and that is it. life begats life and death begats life. that is the way of the world. the wolf is just more advanced than most creatures and is far more used to men's wily ways. they will survive and so will everything else. stop the crying. hunters and wildlife people introduced wolves and we will control them the end.
Comment By Dave Skinner, 10-27-09The idea of wolf-viewing tourism is a complete canard. There's maybe a couple outfitters in Lamar and one in Idaho that I think is now defunct for lack of customers.
By the way, I got a spam from NRDC or Defenders asking for money to buy an ad in the New York Times. Right, now THERE'S where the debate happens, and is so one-sided given there's not a wolf for at least 200 miles and one international border.
Looks like the quotas will be close to filled, especially as the snow hits, bunching up the animals and facilitating tracking. Good.
Wolves once roamed from coast to coast and border to border, so why try to raise enough for the cities to be satiated in the Rockies? Think of the global foot print caused by folks coming to Yellowstone hoping to thrill to the sight of wolves tearing an elk calf apart.
Think of the fuel that could have been saved if two or three pairs had been planted in each of the states, most especially those that are desperate to have a whole lotta wolves.
this wolf thing was certainly NOT environmentally friendly.
This has an easy fix -- offer the hunting permits to the highest bidder. If Defenders doesn't want wolves shot, then have them spend their money on permits instead of on ny times adds... at least the money will flow back to the wildlife protection agencies.
Comment By John, 10-28-09Pat, Sounds good in theory, but it still wouldn't address the issue of management, which should be the collective goal for both sides of the fence. The theme that needs to be addressed is how we can unite our energy and resources to arrive at a coherent solution to this emotional debate. Keep generating creative ideas and posting them in blogs like this and perhaps we can find common understanding. I'm encouraged by the fact that this thread hasn't become hostile, yet, like so many of the ones that have come before.
But perhaps if there were enough dollars invested in research, we could find a way to apply birth control measures to the packs. Does anyone know if this idea has been looked at? If hunters and biologists didn't have the need to reduce the numbers by hunting...?
I would venture that this thread has not become hostile yet because only one side of the debate has posted to this point. Eventually the intellegent side will kick in and start posting.
Comment By scatcounter, 10-28-09Judy Shafer,
I do not know where you are getting your wolf ecotourism numbers, but they are simply not correct. The studies done by Dr. Duffield at MSU or was it U of Montana, dealt with wolves seen in Yellowstone NP, and a broad interpretation could get you to the $25-34 million his studies suggest. However, when you start breaking down the numbers, many of the people included in the $$$ generated from "wolf watching" came to the Park for other activities as well. Furthermore, if one expects that wolf watching will become commonplace, with outfitters providing services, think again. Don't you think it curious that thousands of hunters in the woods with wolf tags would see the same wolves in the same numbers, with a resulting harvest success. Get real you bonehead.
Second, while it may be true that coyotes and dogs kill livestock in greater numbers than wolves, that is only because there are more of them to do the killing. And, those predators are dispatched the same way wolves should be if killing livestock.
Tourists will still come to see wolves in YNP whether a season is taking place -or not. After all, the "display" wolves know they are safe in the park anyway. Also the hunt is a great opportunity; love wolves, like having that extra dynamic in the field, look forward to tagging one as well.
Comment By AnIdahoGuy, 10-28-09I agree with rscott, and would add that for a "by the numbers" article, there aren't many numbers in the article.
Comment By charlie, 10-28-09AESOP,
Is the "intelligent side" of the dialog the same as the spud boycott crowd? Now there is an effective campaign. I would not leave the folks who thought that one up in a room alone with a book of matches.
Maybe Judy Shafer can tell us where this 300 million dollar number from wolf tourism came from. I am going to guess that would wake up the governors of ID and MT, if true.
Or, AESOP is it just that you and the "intelligent side" are into telling fables.
Here are the real wolf numbers:
number of people who actually go to Yellowstone to see wolves: about 25 a month in the summer with spotting scopes and telescopes and advanced optics.
how many they actually see, maybe 8 on a good day
no. of wolves killed in idaho: 70. number that they actually will kill if they are lucky and end up with some retarded wolves in the gene pool: another 10-12.
number of domestic cats and the birds and animals that they kill in every state of the union: in the millions
number of peta members that actually know anything about animals...priceless
If a poll were taken regarding whether it is preferable to pay a bounty on wolves or wolf-haters, my money would be on wolf-haters.
Comment By dave, 10-28-09the management of the wolves is going well. hopefully they will harvest close to their goals. wolves next year will be smarter and the hunt should continue again next year.
eco wolf lookyloos spending 300 million. thats a real joke.half or them come to yeelowstone with a twenty dollar bill wearing a t shirt,,,, and dont change either.
If a poll were taken regarding whether it is preferable to pay a bounty on wolves or elk hating wolf lovers, my money would be on wolf-lovers.
Comment By AESOP, 10-28-09Charlie,
just a little psychological test.
you did not score very high
AESOP,
Like you and brain in a jar Horst there, are qualified to score anything. We are still awaiting the "intelligent" side to enter the dialog. Oh, wait, you already have.
charlie
don't get upset
just be glad you were able to contribute
Speaking of intelligent sides entering the fray, i can see this dialogue has denigrated into name calling and eco friendly banter. no wonder the wolves have so many haters and lovers, most of these people that are interested in the issue can;t love anyone but their own little selves.
Comment By mostlyMike, 10-29-09I see Dave Skinner doesn't know much of anything about wolf tourism in Yellowstone, and he doesn't know much about the wolves and coywolves of New England or Ontario.
While folks in New York are ignorant of Idaho and Montana, people like Skinner, who should bother to get informed, don't know much if anything about the East.
p.s. I live in SE Idaho and have never been to New York.
If a poll were taken regarding whether it is preferable to pay a bounty on wolves or wolf-haters, my money would be on wolf-haters.
If a poll were taken regarding whether it is preferable to pay a bounty on wolves or wolf-haters, my money would be on wolf-haters.
Simply these enviro know it all types are saying they would prefer to gun down those of us who disagree with them on the evidence at hand..
It seems to me we hu-mans always resort to violence towards one another over stupid issues which are designed to do just that.. Stalin and Hitler were both environmentalists.
Some folks understand what I just said, and several never will until after their dead, a little late then wouldn't you agree..
People like Horst fail to understand their own vulnerability when spouting off war like actions, of course I understand Horst meant placing those he disagrees with up against a wall while tied and blind folded and then he gets to gun them down..
Study history, the left wing socialists have done just that several million times..
From where I am standing, the Horsts of this country better hope like hell this never happens here in this nation, all I can tell Horst, is good luck buddy, you're going to need a lot of it.
Here you go Comrade Von Horst, I'm certain you're family will enjoy this new game coming forth soon, you can just pretend the innocent people you're gunning down are people who believe differently than yourself..
New game lets players massacre civilians
http://rawstory.com/2009/10/game-lets-players-massacre-civilians/
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is set for release Nov. 10, in time for the American holiday shopping season. Its predecessor sold 14 million copies and earned myriad "game of the year" awards.
Perfect, just what this modern feudalistic society needs to hand out to their children..
I think I see a compromise in our future, gosh and I'm just a Redneck wolf hating un educated lobofoe.
Ah, the anonymous derogation resumes. Half Mike, in your ear, that is, if sub-rockies like you are evolved far enough to have such a thing.
What about that little lady just hamburgered by kindly COYOTES in Nova Scotia the other day?
Or are those coywolves?
Whatever the case, there AIN'T no wolves within 200 miles of New York City unless you have privy data on some in Adirondack Park or some such. And since Noo Yawkers tend to stop at the first nice B and B and go no further....
Or they go to the Poconos, maybe the Water Gap or something.
I been there.
When you get to the point, abner, where you are capable of understanding the concepts upon which you hold forth with such authority, I'll be willing to discuss them in more detail.
I see where your tribe has apparently gained--or will soon be gaining--sovereignty by an act of your sovereign's congress...
The mould has been broken and the enviros better hope the quotas are met. If they are not then the Judge will have less of a reason to block the hunts next year. If the population increases well beyond were it is today the quotas should be higher.
With the early snows maybe a little wolf biathlon is in order, combining my favorite sport of back country skiing and shooting. Gliding silently through the trees, following the tracks as they struggle in the deep snow. a sudden glimps of grey, I drop to a prone position and .....
A few shot skiers more or less wouldn't be a bad outcome
Comment By Mr. Twister, 10-31-09Whoever monitors this site needs to take a close look here. Horst is suggesting murdering people.
Horst, please back away from the keyboard and step outside for some air.
hmmm, Horst just proves his views are fascism in nature.. Who ever this cretin is he/she is a fascist.
Comment By horst, 10-31-09Horst didn't suggest skiers arming themselves. I think it was the old Idahoan. And I don't think he was inciting to murder; but his suggestion would certainly have led to a lot of shooting by sportsmen.
Comment By Native, 10-31-09Oh well, mankind has spent several centuries fighting over resources, lands, timber, yellow rocks, oil, and animals.. The excuses always change, even the methods change, the results are consistent..
Comment By Dewey, 11-02-09Yes, count me in the camp of pro-Wolfers who thought that hunting them would be more than a little tough in Idaho and Montana , based on last year's Fools With Guns Fest in southwest Wyoming during the short open season there before they were re-listed. I am somewhat surprised that the " hunters" have taken as many wolves as they have...for this year. I also said ahead of time that the first year's hunts really don't count for much, since both wolves and humans are on a learning curve here. There is no way to compare open public hunting of wolves with what Wildlife (Dis) Services does 24/7/365, which is eradicate problem wolves by any means necessary. Those boys get to use traps, poison when necessary , and especially aerial gunning, yet they still have a hard time with some of the critters. Some packs have eluded them all summer. Besides Wildlife (Dis)Services probably spends more than $ 10,000 per wolf taken over the course of the budget year, and their fine work will continue regardless of the various states' wolf management plans, or in Wyoming's case the lack of them. Anyone who goes out hunting specifically for a wolf will have a hard go of it, and outfitted hunts will be throwing away money in most cases. Wolf tags should be a supplemental license along with an Elk tag or something, for taking wolves as targets of opportunity. I beleive Wyoming elk tags still have a supplemetal Black BEar tag as well, or used to ( I haven't bought an elk license in many years...gave up hunting becasue I was tired of competing with machine-powered idiots, road slobs, and greedy out of wedlock primates). Wolves won't be easily hunted as a standalone. Not without helicopters and/or night vision goggles...
Public hunting of wolves will not be a tremendously successful method of managing wolves over the long haul. I still believe the wolf will learn very quickly in seasons to come , and the human hunters will see the degree of difficulty go up . In Wyoming last year, they pretty much got the easy wolves, the old slow wolves, the dumb wolves, and the wolves that were pretty handy at the elk feed grounds.
We'll know a lot more about wolf "hunting" in three years. Maybe.
Dewey, you read the issue accurately!
Comment By Wales, 11-05-09"I haven't bought an elk license in many years...gave up hunting -becasue- I was tired of competing with machine-powered idiots, road slobs, and greedy out of wedlock primates"
I never ran into any of those back in the wilderness which makes me think you're lazy just like they are.
...never saw a greedy out of wedlock primate in the wilderness? I find THAT hard to believe. Wyoming outfitter camps were chock full of them. I quit going to the camps and quit guiding because of the quality of the hunters and the huntees. I didn't have that option when for 12 years I ran a private game check station for a huge ranch in NW Wyoming that had controled access to 110,000 acres of Pronghorn, Deer, and Elk hunting. The ranch permitted road hunting and foothill hunts. I personally tended to thousands of "hunters" over those years, and I'd have to say only a few percent of them were real sportsmen as I would reckon it. Most just wanted to shoot , drink, and above all just plain kill something.
I have no reason to believe that so-called Wolf Hunters would raise the bar any. I already know too many out-and-out varmint hunters, and they are not shining examples...and standalone wolf " hunts" are just varmint hunts on steroids, aren't they ? Or will be...I'm in Wyoming, where wolf hunting is still a dream , because our also-nonstellar leadership and hunting lobbies and ranching cabal keep shooting themselves in the foot.
The "slob hunter" moniker is getting old. It has been beat to death by the "anti everythings" and skewed journalism. Now our own kind are turning against us. I have packed in and packed out enough "dudes'' meat and gear to get a fair idea that people are out of touch with what hunting is all about. Ethics and morals were trampled as soon as the almighty dollar got involved. We as sportspeople need to be heard as a group lets show people what were all about. Until we can change the stereotype it will continue downhill before long animals will have proxy lawyers because they cannot speak for themselves. We allowed this wolf reintroduction to happen on our watch. Remember it was only supposed to be 75 breeding pairs then it would be turned over for the states to manage, now they are using there old playbook tactics against us "genetic diversity" then they will use more safe areas "wildlife corridors" that we are not allowed to recreate in. This is the beginning of the end of hunting as you know it now unless you are rich and famous. Speak out against wanton waste but speak up and stand up for your fellow hunters.
Comment By Dewey, 11-07-09Not all hunters are slob hunters. Not all hunters are dedicated sportsmen to who actually killing prey is secondary to the worth of the experience . Most who hunt fall somewhere between the two.
That's the abstract . How it plays out in the field is a bit different. The true sportsman hunter is growing much more rare these days, both in numbers and quality. The numbers of slob hunters are increasing all around, for many reasons. The total number of hunters taking the field where I live is declining, as it is nationwide. But the slob hunters are that much more apparent are due to the proliferation of ATV's, shorter vacations, a weaker economy , less physically fit hunters, older hunter demographics with fewer youth hunters being recruited ...any number of factors that are putting downward pressure on hunting , encouraging less finesse and more self-indulgence instant gratification in the hunting community.
The net result of all the above is we see disproportionately a higher percentage of slob hunters amid a shrinking field. More importantly , it only takes a few slob hunters to tar them all with the brush of Slob. Sad but true. A few ruin it for everyone.
I live in northwest Wyoming. The difference between personal and professional hunting 50 years ago , and the present day , is incredible.
What has gone out of hunting is INTEGRITY. It's easy to find where it went: just follow the money.
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