WE NEED YOUR HELP WITH BURLINGTON NORTHERN SANTA FE
An Open Letter to Warren Buffett
One phone call can make something wonderful happen out here in Montana.
By Bill Schneider, 11-12-09
Dear Mr. Buffett:
I read with interest and glee about your recent acquisition of the majority ownership in Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF). Congratulations on buying a great company--investment wise, I should clarify, because BNSF is a not-so-great company on the public relations front.
Now that you own the railroad, you can change that bad image with one phone call and instantly make your new acquisition--and yourself, of course--a corporate saint out here in Montana.
Like everybody who ever bought a common stock or mutual fund, I admire all you done. Even with your many billions, you drive to work in a regular vehicle and live in a regular house and pay yourself a regular salary. You don’t embarrass the country with an eight-figure salary and the greed we see from so many CEOs.
And philanthropically speaking, everybody knows you’re one of the most generous among us. You could buy a country, but instead, you plan to give almost all of your fortune back to society.
So, to continue your strong tradition of philanthropy and to support your corporate sainthood candidacy, I respectfully request that you have a little chat with your new employees at BNSF about an amazing opportunity we have out here under the Big Sky.
Here’s the deal. For years, people in central Montana have been encouraging, if not begging, BNSF to legally abandon (instead of just not use) a 94-mile section of rail line between Great Falls and Helena. It runs along one of the few undammed sections of the mighty Missouri River and follows part of the historic route of Lewis and Clark. It’s an exceptionally scenic and accessible section of rail line that we locals hope to turn into the best bike trail ever.
Right now, locally and unofficially, we call it the Corridor of Discovery Trail, but we would gladly call it the Warren Buffett Trail.
The bike trail would not only be an economic godsend to several small, struggling Montana communities and greatly increase property values for landowners along the route, but it would be such a green thing for you to do. I know you and your family have contributed generously to worthy causes such as fighting AIDS, curbing illiteracy, and stopping nuclear proliferation. Well, here’s a chance to do something for worthy causes such as saving a slice of small town America, promoting health and fitness, fighting obesity, reducing our dependence on foreign oil, and helping to curb the virtual pandemic of Nature Deficit Disorder in the so-called “screen generation” so expertly documented by Richard Louv in his book, Last Child in the Woods.
The trouble is, your new employees at BNSF have not only refused to consider our request, but have been playing politics with our sincere intentions. Last year, to emphasize the point, BNSF befouled the scenic corridor by moving in hundreds of rusty, smelly, ugly railcars. BNSF executives could’ve stored these unneeded railcars anywhere on their system, but they chose the route of the proposed bike trail, perhaps the most scenic section of rail line BNSF controls and definitely one of the most heavily used for outdoor activities.
I wish I could take you down the river in my drift boat so you could see it yourself because you’d likely agree with me that this decision was little more than an “up yours” to those of us who have volunteered our own time and money to make this bike trail happen. Many thousands of people float that stretch of river every year. Instead of enjoying the scenery and the fabulous trout fishing, they’re now treated to a full-frontal display of a powerful monopoly’s surplus garbage and political vindictiveness.
I can’t tell you anything about economic development, since you probably invented it, but I can say that in many places where such a bike trail is built, it becomes the lifeblood of a rural economy. I wrote about one such trail, the Trail of the Coeur d’Alenes in Idaho, which was also built on an abandoned rail line. Little towns along that trail would probably have all but disappeared by now, but instead, they flourish because of bicycle-related tourism. (If interested in more details, check the links at the end of this letter.)
The same economic comeback would follow our bike trail, and I suspect the benefits would exceed those generated by the Trail of the Coeur d’Alenes. Everybody who sees this corridor agrees that it could be among the best bike routes in the world.
All we really need is for you to make a phone call to a BNSF executive to get the abandonment process underway. But if you wanted to really show your stuff, you could actually fund construction of the trail.
I suppose you don’t like hearing this, but it seems like you could afford it. It would only take 50 Berkshire Hathaway’s Class A shares or around 3 percent of the money you invested in Goldman Sachs last September. In fact, based on my amateur calculations, you could built the whole thing with about 5 percent of the one-year profit from the Goldman Sachs investment.
Anyway, Mr. Buffett, I could go on, but I’ve heard you’re a busy guy. I’m sure it wasn’t part of the M&A plan for BNSF, but serendipitously, you’ve landed in a position where you can really help us accomplish something wonderful out here in Montana. Please make the call.
Respectfully and on behalf of many thousands of Montanans,
Bill Schneider
Related commentaries from our archives:
Idaho Hits Tourism Grand Slam
Build the Corridor of Discovery Trail
How BNSF Can Become a Corporate Saint
Bill,
Before you send this letter to Mr. Buffet, could you add one thing?
B.N.S.F. has a near monopoly on freight traffic in Montana, and their rates per mile are staggering compared to what they charge in states where even a little competition exists. Grain farmers all across the state have been suffering for years as a result, so....
Before you stick a stamp on it, could you look into that just a bit and then ask Warren to give the folks who grow our cereal grains a bit of a break? Perhaps Mr. Buffet will be in a giving mood?
Interesting. I hadn't heard of this trail, but it sounds lovely. That stretch between Great Falls and Helena is so beautiful.
Comment By Dennis Roseleip, 11-12-09Very good request that I hope Warren Buffett will consider. I, too, sincerely hope he will review the Montana freight rates and promote fair adjustments.
Comment By Desertographer, 11-12-09This trail sounds like a great idea, Bill. Hope Warren reads--and acts on--your letter.
Comment By rscott, 11-12-09Two things:
1. I'm not sure it benefits anyone to imply that the action of storing rail cars on unused rail line is spiteful or political. Several entities have been doing this, particularly with cars designed to haul wood products (of which many are idled).
2. I'm also not sure that abandonment is the best procedure to folllow in this case, as it may not result in the anticipated outcome of preserving the corridor for a bike trail.
One last comment: A change in ownership may create an opportunity for advancing a particular course of action, but trying to influence such an action through the media may not be the best approach.
There are many reasons why BNSF has not abandoned the former Great Northern line from Great Falls to Helena, none of them involve giving an "up yours" to those who want to scrap it and replace it with a trail.
I concur with you that BNSF isn't exactly out for anyone's best interests other than their own bottom line, but you seem to suggest that the muckity-mucks at BNSF should simply hand it over to you on a silver platter and that you are slightly miffed that they have not.
Let me present to you a few harsh realities:
The economy in the US is in the dumps, in case you haven't heard. The 'smelly' railcars which are currently stored on the GF-Helena line that have you bent out of shape are a direct indicator of that faltering economy. There is literally not enough demand from consumers in this country to use those cars as originally intended. BNSF knows that at some point, the economy will bounce back but in the meantime, they have to put those cars somewhere (and there is a lot of space on the GF-Helena line).
This isn't limited to your sacred stretch of the mighty Missouri. This scenario is being played out across the US. Any railroad with underutilized rail lines are stuffing them with unused flatcars, boxcars, hoppers and even locomotives and many of them are in scenic areas, not unlike the GF-Helena line.
In a nutshell, before you get in a huff, look at all the angles. I would also like to see a trail replace the rails at some point but I can wait until the economic conditions come around so that both parties (BNSF and trail advocates) can come out ahead in the deal.
We also have a problem with unsightly abandoned rail cars on a scenic line along the Arkansas River in Colorado. (I'm not sure which rail company owns them.) My husband and I have been noticing them there for many years and were recently wondering what will ever become of them. They seem to be just sitting there rusting and marring the landscape. At some point, they will surely be unsound and unusable. There must be tons of scrap steel which could be recycled.
I like the idea of a bicycle trail replacing unneeded rail lines, but I do wonder if those railroad right-of-ways might someday be needed again if we ever stop using so many cars and trucks and once again use more mass transit. It is really hard to reclaim rail right-of-way once it is given up. As with many decisions, this one is not totally cut and dried.
Never made a "comment" to anything before, but this is a really a brilliant idea! The area really is that beautiful, the idea of the bike trail is that popular in the Helena, Wolf Creek, Craig area, and it would ( if he cares) make Mr. Buffet a true hero in this part of the state!!
Comment By bearbait, 11-12-09The Union Pacific says it has enough idle cars to make up a single train that would fill their rail line from Seattle to Albuquerque. There are private short lines in Oregon that serve idle sawmills that are keeping their taxes paid by renting tracks and space to store idle rail cars. I would think the BNSF is in no better shape.
When economies are in the tank, so is scrap. High fuel cost and low scrap value will keep cars where they are for a while longer.
The railroads that serve the West Coast are in the tank due to vastly decreased shipping from Asia. And that cargo travels to America by rail to warehouse hubs, and then by truck to further warehousing and distribution centers. Straw and hay shipping is way down in my neighborhood, because the exporters can't get the "cans" to fill with compressed bales, and, where they used to get a discount because the "cans" (shipping containers) would be going across the Pacific empty due to limited export of American goods to Asia. My, how that has changed.
China controls the Panama Canal. Thank you, Congress. China is making it wider and deeper, where possible. That means that larger ships can transit the canal, and whenever possible, Asian shippers use the larger vessels that can use the Canal, and land cargo in the Gulf and even on the East Coast. Hence, the rail service out of those ports is increasing while rail service out of West Coast ports is decreasing. The New Monroe Doctrine. And no, you can't make an appointment with Doc Monroe.
The two big rail building projects since before WWII have been the recently completed high capacity line from the Port of Los Angeles to the desert, and the triple line out of Thunder Basin in Wyoming to Rapid City, SD, that is there to facilitate the low sulfur coal traffic to Midwest and East Coast coal fired electrical generation plants, the volume of which is huge. Gigantic. I have heard that there is some new rail construction ongoing to get goods out of Mobile and the Mississippi River now that larger container ships can transit the Panama Canal.
Buffett bought a huge railroad at a time when its fortunes have been turning south. As far as grain goes, the BN has those mega elevators, dedicated power to grain cars, and endless motion loading, all of which are designed to gain the goal of Just In Time grain loading of ships on the Columbia River, and in Puget Sound. The Grain Cartel controls the price of that freight, and the cost of shipping. Cargill is super huge, and private, and nobody knows how powerful and rich they really are. My guess is that they made the BNSF build those mega elevators. You can bet they control transportation costs of grain out of the Midwest whether it moves across the Great Lakes, down the MIssissippi or West to the Columbia River and Puget Sound. And all the transportation of grain from Canada to the world. And Brazil, Australia, and wherever else they have a mega presence. My guess is that Cargill can buy and sell Buffett anytime they have the occasion. When one company controls the whole of the process, a commodity, from elevator to world ports and inland destinations, as Cargill does, from dirt to chemicals to elevators, transportation and sales, one rail road is not going to change things without consequences. All you really need to do is buy more votes than Cargill can, and Congress will find a way to make grain shipping cheaper. My bet is that would only decrease the price for the commodity, with no gain to the producer. In fact, with transportation costs controlled, market access and being able to respond to price fluctuations would be sorely limited. There is no free lunch when you take on world monopolies like Middle East oil, Afghan opium, Mexican dope, African Diamonds, and world grain supplies. They seem to always win, just like the NY Yankees. Money talks and bullshit walks. And, like grain, baseball is a monopoly because Congress says it can be.
Wow, who'd of thought a plea for a bike path would turn into a discussion of global economics, but that's good...
And bearbait, I think you nail a few things there. And yes, some of my favorite college memories involve MSU Ag Econ wiz Gale Cramer laughing like the proverbial mad professor as he drew increasingly complex and fascinating graphs. It's amazing what you can do with a supply/demand graph, but it now looks to me like we maybe need that third dimension; wealth.
I'm way too tired for any discussion of the dismal science at the moment, though, in spite of the fact we're doing the organic/direct marketing thing (and have Cargills living next door). Such ironies...
So our grain's not going on any unit trains, and who knows how all this will turn out, but what's going through my head at the moment is;
"But the rails are now rusty
The dining car's dusty
The gold plated watches have taken their toll
The railroads are dying
And the lady she's crying
On a bus to Kentucky and home that's her goal..."
I bet NO ONE told Mr.Buffet that most if not ALL RailRoad routes in this country are contaminated with DEADLY Tremolite asbestos fibers which kill you.In a study done from 1979 to 2002 of this Tremolite from Libby which by the way was shipped all over this Country by rail and semi,(Govt was aware.were you?)called Meso in Montana.This study counted all recorder Mesothelioma deaths along all Rail road routes out of Libby Mt. Over 200 known Meso deaths were found.Note,this is but a fraction of the true count of Meso deaths.AND NOTHING was done to count all those with asbestosis and asbestos related disease.Also remember Meso is/WAS a rare cancer.Today it is not.This whole country is waking up to this sleeping giant/Latency and millions are sick and dying today from what left Libby Mt in 1963, when WR Grace came to Libby and killed everyone...knowingly.Is Mr.Buffet liable now to the millions who are and will be diagnosed with Meso and others from just living next to the rail road tracts.I think Mr. Buffet had better renig on this deal if it ain't too late course I am sure he has no idea what he has bought.Did BNSF find a sucker to buy their liability???Kinda like selling Libby Mt as safe.I continue to sell Libby as a DEATH TOWN and to stay away because Libby is not a safe place to anything that breathes.Tremolite asbestos kills you.It is killing me and over 2000 people in Libby.WR Grace produced the Tremolite asbestos and the Railroad shipped it to all the millions sick and dying today.I know because I use to fill the GRAIN cars with WR Grace Libby Tremolite.Read Meso in Montana.Check out the map of the trail of sickness and death left by the RailRoad.Someone should tell Mr Buffet...before the ink dries.Tell him the truth.I just did.
Comment By Dave Skinner, 11-12-09Glad Ryan and Bear weighed in here so I don't have to set the record straight.
Warren Buffet may be a lib, but he's not stupid with money. While I'm surprised the GN secondary to Helena from Great Falls hasn't been torn up, the simple fact is, it won't be for some time. There's lots of steel parked there that isn't going anywhere until the Chinese want it to smelt down and sell to us as useless trinkets.
There's lots of steel parked everywhere...the old line to Lewistown is full of spine cars. Best to have them in places where vandals and other punks have a hard time stripping them.
And to Mr.Schneider, I do not tend to dispute your stories as they do tell of the way it was...NOT the way it is today.I suggest you also educate yourself to the truth as to what is still there and I can assure you everytime the train goes by,Tremolite asbestos is disturbed to be inhaled to cause cancer.I am hoping this deadly exposure alomg all Railroad routes out of Libby are taken seriously because 200 Meso deaths is just the tip of this iceburg to the true numbers of human beings sentenced to death.As in Libby,this Tremolite asbestos has and continues to kill/wipe out entire generations of families...ALL who breathe the deadly air.This also include along the Rail road tracks.Do a story on this Mr.Schneider.I am tired of being the bad guy by telling the people the whole truth...to save them from what is killing me.Thank you
Comment By apple pie, 11-12-09If, what we really want to do is to expand tourism in MT, then we should keep the abandoned rail lines and develop a circular east/west and north/south passenger rail service. One that is designed for tourists according to the season and that has supporting infa structure of locally owned small (16 pax or less) bus services taking passengers from train to locally owned lodges, and overnight sightseeing activities, i.e. bike trails, ski trails. Montana will replace and re-develop her rail system for passengers--let's hope that good design will be guiding criteria and not politics.
Comment By bearbait, 11-12-09Apple Pie: If it can be done with private money, and no subsidies, it has a chance. If you have to do it with government money, it has less chance of success in the long run. Government money is by the whim of legislative process and the vagaries of who has been elected and their personal philosophy and who bought the election for them.
A lot of promises have been made about how roadless areas will be an economic boon someday. The day has arrived. The country is broke. Now is the time for out of the box thinking, and some good old country common sense in the planning and development process. What worked in 2007 is doomed for failure in 2010 and beyond.
There will always be a Montana whining about the evil BNSF. The rest of us understand its just what the elites in Montana do to earn a living.
Comment By Frances Hunter, 11-13-09Great post! I have been to Montana twice for Lewis & Clark related tourism and would love this. It seems like a no-brainer! I hope someone can bring this post and this cause to Buffett's attention.
Comment By mcleanbrice, 11-13-09Buffett don't surf!
Comment By Tom von Alten, 11-13-09@Apple: we have a lovely tourist line here in Idaho between Horseshoe Bend and Cascade, mostly along the Payette River and its N. Fork. I don't know how their excursion business is going, but I'd be surprised to learn that it's much of a money-maker. I've ridden one of their two tourist segments, once ( photoessay at http://fortboise.org/IdNP/ ).
The route is exemplary, but even for a jolly excursion on a beautiful day, the speed limits on the trackage were annoyingly low, and unsuitable for actual transportation. I don't imagine the INP can justify the cost of any track work in the near term.
Ya got that right, Tom. The Montana Daylight bombed big time. I guess the Charlie Russell dinner train scrapes a profit, somehow, but their overhead is pretty low with the old stuff they use. Once it fails FRA inspection that'll be it.
I can't imagine a "circulator" train as Apple suggests, either. It's already four hours to Helena as it is, I'll be dang-dratted if I want to ride for TEN hours to Shelby and Great Falls, never mind all the parked equipment currently in the way.
I'm sorry, but I'm just amazed at all the moony fantasies being bruited about here at NW about trolleys and bike trails somehow being economic drivers. Now more than ever, there's a need to be rational with both private AND public money -- and I'm not seeing it.
I agree certain stretches of the route between Cascade, Craig, and the cutoff over to Flesher, would be just charming as a bike ride...but right now that track is far more valuable to BNSF (and the country) as a place to park things away from infrastructure that needs to flow wild and free.
Hold it, Knute!!!! The Obammer, hisself, was waxing oratorical and poetic in Asia today about wind turbines and solar arrays, and all the economic future energy partnerships with Asia will bring to our regions.....
Reality Check: existing hydroelectric power costs 4% of what wind power costs to generate. Hydro can work all day every day, all year long or as long as the water flows. Wind is 16% to 28% available, and you have to have a place to use it when it is available, or even that is a waste. You can't shut down a coal plant for ten hours to use some available wind. You can't make the ledger look better by letting water over the dam instead of through the turbines while you use the available wind. And the sun only shines for 10 hours this time of year, not matter the cloud cover or how much snow is on the array.
This country has a leadership driven to bankrupt us by mandate, or so they tell us. We couldn't afford to let our unrestrained, uncontrolled, wild west cowboy bankers fail, even after they cost our economy $60 Trillion or more of equity. Then we now have to add to our woes with universal health care, and the Sun God is in Asia giving pep talks to the manufacturers of goods using slave labor that we are going to need wind mills and solar arrays from them. How we pay for them is to borrow money from the governments of the countries that will produce them.
The Gliberals are out of their ever lovin' minds, which shouldn't surprise any thinking person. We gave the keys to the government bank and car to the bad boy teenager, and we promised to be forgiving when the wrecks come. If we can. Rigging the upcoming census from the White House has been promised by Rahm the Impaler. Then it will be up to the States to further gerrymander the Gliberals, the Left, to insurmountable power. And all that in a time of personal dire economic straits for tens of millions of educated, eager, disciplined, out of work voters. Hijinks and politics have a way of taking the powers that be eyes off the ball, and the paybacks are swift and under estimated. Jobs in Asia, Mr. President, is not what the hell you were elected to pander to. Your promise was to workers here. We need to make the stuff we need to be a stronger nation and put our workers back into jobs!!! Find that on your teleprompter sometime.
Bill Schneider,,
As a land owner that lives by those tracks ,,24/7,,365days a year,,,,I hope that BNSF finds a way to stack the cars in here
two high,,,,,,since they have been here its cut down on all the city-critters that manage a Trespass once or twice a month ,,,,,and manage to leave their crap all over the area.
By the way,,,,,forward your address..the next weekend that the grand kids come up....I will bring a load by and dump it in your yard.
THANKS BNSF,,,, Bring some more Peace and Quite
Tom
Every investment is a bet and Buffet is probably betting on Freight and Coal. Freight can be hauled cheaper by rail than by truck from the coast to the heart land and visa versa. Coal is hauled mostly by rail and Buffet is probably betting that Coal used as a power source is going to increase. This is not a bad thing for Montana's economy. Buffet probably doesn't give a tinker's damn about Montana's scenery. You can try to corner him when he comes to Sun Valley every year to attend the annual Allen & Company big wheel financial conference if you disguise your self as a private security guard.
Comment By bearbait, 11-15-09I like that. If the globababble climate deal goes south, your bet is hedged by having a huge stake in hauling coal...If the eocfreaques manage to keep nuclear out of the equation, and Harry Reid filibusters burying nuclear waste in Nevada (so why would the US own 80% of the sand and rocks there, no people allowed, and concentrate the residents along two freeways with whorehouses and gambling if they didn't have a use for the "Big Empty?"), Buffett has hedged his bet on renewable energy from anything but Big Oil....and, the trains will haul the biomass and grain needed to make inefficient fuel for autos and power generation.
Comment By jed, 11-15-09As he has aged, Mr. Buffet has seemed to mellow--as most of us do. It appears he has thrown in with Mr Gates--as most of the nineteenth century tycoons--they have latterly seemed to become devoted to altruism. I'm betting also that coal is at the heart of the takeover--otherwise why not go for Union Pacific instead of BN?
And had he been looking for passenger traffic he'd have looked to the east.
Good for you, Jed, Mick and Bear. You win!
BNSF has more coal potential than UP. UP is tapped into the PRB in partnership with BNSF, but BN has a lot of potential in Montana, as soon as our vacillatory, pinko Governor departs. DME will never be in a position to touch BNSF unless it first taps the PRB and then extends from Colony into the Tongue/Otter country.
Second, on freight, ATSF's old main line is in the final stages of double track all the way from Chicago to LA.
So yes, the bet is on America coming back with oil playing a smaller role in the ENERGY picture. This nation has always run on conversion of energy into use, utterly so. It will come from nukes (I expect some sanity on the disposal issue in my lifetime), coal and coal conversion, some renewables focused on BASE LOAD outputs, with a token amount of infill by wind and solar. We are gonna HAVE to have base load to recharge our electric cars at night. I still ethically oppose the use of natural gas for power generation when it is our best direct-heat and chemical hydrocarbon.
Skinner and Garcia seem married to the noton of fossil fuel; while our only possible future lies in the abilities of our big brains to break out of that paradigm.
Between 1972 and 1981 our best thinkers were moving in that direction; but election of a mentally challenged showman ended any hopes we had for the twentieth century.
Perhaps a hesitant leftist like Obama might prove capable of easing the pressures on our environment during the 21st century; but he seems too impressionable to ministrations from conmen from the neo-con-objectivist school to suit me...
All the public Gliberal handwringing and time at the wailing wall about climate change, and the Democrat insistence on spending our country into the deflation of a post WWI Europe, I sort of had this personal epiphany today that what really we should do is invest our precious treasure, our tax money, not in global climate change but in education. My thought being if we invested all these tax credits and grants, and public treasure that are being funneled to hugely expensive alternative energy programs, many of which will turn out to be dead ends or saddled with huge inefficiencies, and instead invested that money in education, K-12, and public colleges and universities, the investment in our young would pay off in finding real efficiencies, real progress, and real answers not that far down the road.
My fear is that we don't make the investment in the future, are not now making the investment in the future of education, which is exactly what education is--a public investment, and instead make those investments in unproven energy ideas that have yet to be tried in the crucible of free market economics, we lose more than one generation of doers, and increase, incrementally, our population of needy takers, entitlement hustlers, and heaven knows we have enough of that already.
Somehow, we have to rid ourselves of this Chicken Little "sky is falling" climate scenario, and get class sizes down, more kids in PE, have some sort of community moral involvement in schools and kids, and swing this deal into lead before we just melt into the landscape of failed nations. I even bet Buffett agrees with that. Quit worrying about coal, about oil, and get on with a much more important crusade to produce an educated public that will be able to solve the real problems down the road. There are many out there who profess to have the answers, but I don't think we are even close to asking the right questions. Spending the political capital, the national treasure of taxation, on public education and a rigorous national exercise of learning how to critically think would do us much more good than this deal of subversive banking and looting of the country we now are witnessing and being forced to live with, as education has slowly been shifted to the back burners of slight by the Congress and our State legislators saddled with funding Federal programs and entitlements that have now been with us long enough we should recognize and know they are not working, and have not worked, and we need to do something better, something different.
Buffett is just hedging his bets because he invests in tangible things that you can touch, repair, improve, move, scrap, whatever. He can visualize unit trains of coal going to someplace to make something that we have no idea that is possible with coal, carbon, in a clean and responsible manner. But without the trains to move the coal, the idea is less than a world changer. With the infrastructure to move the coal, and the US has more than any country, we can utilize this yet to be known product or process. And Buffett's stockholders will profit immensely. Vision. Some people think critically and visualize what the future could or should look like, and then work to that end. He is one.
Far be it from me to pooh-pooh any effort to improve our educational system; but it is just a little short-sighted to worry about what we will teach children when it is doubtful they may ever have an opportunity to even breathe.
People who reject the notion of global warming are very like the nonsense notion of ostriches hiding their heads in the sand.
Horst: don't keep the news to yourself. When is the oxygen running out and we won't be able to breathe? A week from tuesday? ALL the measurements say that the air is cleaner today that it was when I went to a much better school system, with much better support from the public, about 60 years ago.
You don't do the "ostrich" deal at this time. This is the time to invest in education so that there is a whole lot bigger pool of thinkers and tinkerers to provide SOLUTIONS. The world is not a giant communications web and that is where the money is being spent. We need to get off this deal where you can't start a techie business in the US and keep it running unless you can import half your talent from third world universities. We exported our frigging manufacturing economy. We import students to charge them three times what we charge residents to keep graduate student levels high enough to keep faculty. We need to put our money in education, not climate machines. Not wind turbines that can't come close to economic self sufficiency without massive government grants and tax forgiveness. Does it not grate your ass we erect Siemens or Vesta turbines on our land, and send the local blue collar guy's taxes to Europe in the form of tax credits and grants? It bothers the crap out of me. The people here should be building the whole deal. Here. But, no. We put them up with a generation of Legos acumen temporary workers. The Danes were preparing us to erect their turbines.
Again, I say we don't ask the right questions, and therefore have to listen to answers to questions that won't push us forward. It is a known fact the low level and high level man made pollution is not a GOOD thing. But to use the global climate change scenario to fill people with fear is not the answer. Especially when the rocks tell us we are most likely on the cusp of another hundred thousand or more years of cold weather. We just don't know enough to make the kinds of immediate changes demanded by the Chicken Little Lobby. Sorry. And we aren't going to get the answers as long as we don't invest in the education of our children and instead put the money in tax credits to wind turbine companies. Wrong approach, in my opinion. And, one of the smartest investors in this country just made a bet hauling coal and grain, and container from the West Coast, is a good bet. Those trains are not going to run on a solar array or a wind turbine. They will burn diesel. Lots of diesel. But a train hauls a ton of freight several hundred miles on a gallon of diesel, and a tug and barge will haul that freight even further. A truck moves that ton about 50 miles on a gallon of diesel, and a pickup truck will move that ton maybe 15 miles. Buffett reads numbers like that and then invests. He has no time for Chicken Little and the Algorerhythms.
Yes, the line is currently being used for car storage, But, BNSF would rather have those cars hauling freight and making money. We have BNSF cars stored where we live also. I would much rather see the rail in use, than paved over for a trail. If the rail goes out, then we can really trash the roads. Nothing better than running more trucks over that piece of road. What Mr Schneider wants it seems, is a better advertising brochure for his float trip business. Yes, it would help the tourist trade, but how will it help those who live in the canyon? Having an active railroad is much better than having a trail and all the goofballs that trash it. I know this from experience. give me a railroad any day vs. a trail and all that goes with it. Those that a trail helps will be in the minority with the financial gain going to the very few and elite.
Comment By Mickey Garcia, 11-15-09Coal gasification technology can make coal burning clean as a whistle, eliminating soot, mercury, arsenic, sulfur and concentrating and preparing CO2 for sediment injection, although this isn't necessary because CO2 is not a toxic air pollutant and is not causing global warming. People like Horst have it ass backwards. According to the geologic record global warming causes CO2 to increase.
Comment By Mickey Garcia, 11-15-09Additionally, the atmosphere currently holds about 750 gigatons of Carbon. Humans add about 7.5 gigatons of Carbon or about 1 percent to the atmosphere annually. Total Carbon held in 4 major reservoirs, plants, soil, atmosphere, ocean surfaces = about 4000 gigatons of carbon. Additionally, about 450 gigatons of Carbon are exchanged between the 4 main Carbon reservoirs annually, dwarfing the human Contribution. If 1 percent increase in atmospheric carbon caused earth to reach a "tipping point", it would have happened many times before in geologic history because atmospheric Carbon has been over the supposed tipping point for millions of years at a time in Earth's past. In view of these facts counting Carbon and attempting to reduce our "Carbon Footprint" is really dumb, futile, pointless and, not to mention, economically disastrous, especially since life on Earth is Carbon based and Carbon dependent.
Comment By Tom von Alten, 11-15-09There's something deeply weird in having you pretend to lecture on scientific topics, Mickey. No offense, but if you can't edit a paragraph to have fewer than half a dozen typos, I don't trust your ability to select cogent facts from sources you deem authoritative.
Comment By Mickey Garcia, 11-15-09The point really should be that the facts which I present are either correct or incorrect and that the reader understands the facts as I present them. Are you having problems in that regard?
Comment By Jack, 11-16-09Why should we turn our beautiful Montana landscape into a junkyard for these ugly unsightly railroad cars? These junk cars beteen Craig and Cascade is an unsightly mess. What about our treasured Montana wildlife? A federal law exists today the Unlawful Inclosures Act of 1885 as amended,43 USC,1061-1064.Stat. L.321,Ch.149, February 25,1885.The UIA protects wildlife that pass to and from public lands for food,cover,habitat and security.The UUA of 1885 was ruled favorably in court cases in the Red Rim in Wyoming as well as Arizona.These railroad cars violate that federal law.These cars are barriers ,obstructions to the free movement of big game animals.There are no openings for big game animals. Get FWP and the Commission involved in this. Look between Craig and Cascade. Look what they are doing in residential areas like Butte and Anaconda.This impacts property values.
B.N.S.F. cares little about our Montana wildlife.These junk cars also violate the Nuisance Law as a nuisance on private lands we have to look at.This is a violation of our rights.Why is Montana a parking area for these junk cars? They should be removed immediately. How about cities? B.N.S.F. parked them in Butte off of Continental Drive. Complaints were filed. They just set there.They are parked in a residential area and must be removed. B.N.S.F. is arrogant and thoughtless and a disgrace to the well being of Montana. Many JUNK cars coming from Idaho...Montana junkyard for B.N.S.F.?? Contact the Governors office,Attorney General,news media and many others ....complain. Our beautiful highways for tourism and visitors have to look at these damn railroad cars,Junk! Melt them down for another ship how about the USS Montana? Don't be niave, B.N.S.F. will bring in more and more.These cars haul in more weed seed and will impact agriculture as well. Don't blame the spread of weeds on the hunters but B.N.S.F. We need a comprehensive investigation of B.N.S.F. and all their plans. Montana tax the hell out of them!!!B.N.S.F. in violation of federal law and contact the federal Judge. Legal action is needed including a class action law suit.
Thanks New West for posting this important issue. Comment and COMPLAIN now!
Look Jack, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
The cars are idle, not junk.
Yes Tom, I think you are very naive and have a mind-set Montana is fine for a railroad junk yard.Yes, Tom upset about screwing up our state and wildlife. Are you a Montana native
I am? Get real Tom this is Montana not a railroad junkyard for the wealthy!! The LAWS must be followed Tom. We didn't write them but we want them followed. Big money rules right Tom??? The LAWS are on our side..Tax the hell out of them Tom.
Oh Tom,I almost forgot. The railroads recieved the land(public domain) from the federal government under railroad land grants for pennies.They are pulling up the tracks that means Tom the land should go back the the federal goverment.That would be the BLM today.The public then could use the public land for public land access to rivers and streams under the Montana Stream Access Law and other areas.Yes Tom Montana has some good LAWS lets get them enforced.The laws rule Tom including the UIA of 1885 and nuisance LAWS.Set back in your easy chair Tom and look up the LAWS.
Comment By Tom Wrobel, 11-16-09Hey Jack,
You say that the rail cars block the movement of game,,strange,, I see the Deer and a few Elk,, pass under and between or around the cars almost every day,,,,,,,and when the cars were spotted (parked) the BNSF crew ask us(The Land Owners) where we wanted or needed splits in the cars so they would not be a problem,,,,,,,,,,There are some of us that would much rather have BNSF across the fence ,,than the mindless public.
Yes Jack, I am a Fourth Generation Montanan ,,,,and after 70+ years,,I have made sure that generations 5-6-7,,are in place.
Oh and you better look a little harder at what happens to Abandon road beds that were taken by Condemnation ,,and a lot of chunks were,,they revert to the original land owners.......or their heirs ,,,,,
No Jack, I'm not a native Montanan. I was born in Wisconsin, and chose to live most of my life in Idaho.
I'm familiar with the "native" claim to authority; people like to use that over here, too. I've found it to be a frequent side-kick of a weak argument. Being a native could give you a leg up, if you're paying attention, but one of your fellow natives' observations suggests maybe you haven't been.
Wow. Jack, are you currently in the education system? You just made Bear's point for him, you know that. And Tom VA a naif? Liberal, maybe, a bit green, but not a naif.
Better concentrate on passing the bar, sonny. Looks like a challenge to you.
about stored rail cars....."....and this too, shall pass." And if it doesn't, we are all in real deep shit because the depths of economic depression that would keep those cars there would be socially suffocating, politically untenable, and there will be a lot of F-250s with household goods headed to California or Florida. Those places are warm and grow food just about year around, are border states, and international jumping off spots. Obesity will no longer be the number one health problem. No money to buy fuel will have the air cleaner, except where they have to burn wood or coal to keep from freezing. That is the change we hope we don't see. However, it looks more and more like a jobless recovery. I wonder how many can fit under the Big Tent? Or will.
Comment By Todd, 11-17-09Jobs are far more important than more special places for elitists to hike or bike. Hopefully folks will be back working using those cars.
Comment By Jack, 11-17-09Here we go the jobs treatment again. 900 billion 'wasted' on the stimulus and unemployment at 10%,13.5 in NV and 12.5 in Illinois,over 8 million unemployed great "job" obama.The auto industry and banks taken over by the government.There are many jobs and businesses in recreation including sporting goods stores and hunting,fishing and recreation equipment including bycyles.What "jobs" are we taking about? House building slowed down and the demand for timber not there. Back to the railroad junk cars is that "jobs"? Getting them out of Montana would create "jobs" I guess. Better yet move them all to Buffetts town all of them! Store the railroad junk cars in Buffetts backyard in his residential area.
Deer and elk pass under the junk railroad cars??? Get a photo of that one.Far fetched!!
I guess I have to laugh at all those who think they can take on the railroad about cars on their tracks. The railroads wrote the laws on transportation, literally, from about 1850 to 1950. Maybe longer. Railroad law is pretty well established. In fact, the Railroad workers don't get Social Security. They have their own Federal Retirement benefit that is separate and parallel to Social Security.
The little town I live in has a working track one block off Main street and parallel to it. The city has paved the street split by the tracks numerous times. Now the tracks lie in a depression, and the ties rot fast, and the water doesn't drain, and the tracks are a mess, and the train goes through town at about 3 miles an hour just to keep it all upright. They city wants the crossings fixed, and the rails upgraded and they want it now and demand it. Have for fifteen years. The railroad ignores them. They won't spend a dime until the city improves the street, reduces the grade so that water flows away from the trackbed, and into a storm water system, and puts a curb on either side of the track, which will cause the loss of parking on both sides of the tracks, one block west of downtown Main street. The standoff continues. The railroad has the law on their side, because they wrote the laws, and they have rights of way protected in Federal and State law.
So bang away on the railroads. They have legal experience, and lots of law firms on retainer. I have a cousin sitting fat in retirement who was a railroad litigator. He got fat representing the railroad when people thought they could tell the railroad what to do and when. The losers paid for his beach house, summers in the south of France. The best thing to do is demand economic recovery from your government. They were responsible for NOT tending the store. Make them do it now.
Libs are used to heading off to the 9th District to get what they want, I suspect they may make a run at this. They can pretty much figure on winning whatever they ask for there, plus a healthy payday of tax dollars for their "expenses".
Comment By Jack, 11-17-09The junk railroad cars are a 'public nuisance' and the public nuisance law is clear on that. For example if someone on private lands had junk,car bodies,old tires etc. They would have to be removed under the public nuisance law.The public does not have to view the excessive junk railroad cars adjacent to public highways. Many of these junk railroad cars were brought into Montana.We should contact the Governor and Attorney Generals Office on the process to get them moved out of here. Federal laws are being violated as well The Unlawful Inclosures Act of 1885.
Comment By jay, 11-17-09An even more rewarding investment might be double track between the two cities to allow for the reduction of the wasteful automobile traffic which currently..?
Comment By Dave Skinner, 11-17-09No, Jay. Unless of course you win Powerball.
94 miles, right? Gotta rebuild the original track, minimum of 1.5 million a mile. AND grade and line and blast for the second main?
Word is the Broadview-Bull Mountain spur, 35 miles, ran 100 million and that was EASY eastern Montana dirt, no canyons.
And Jack, if you are so sure those cars are junk, grab your torch and go for it. See how long you work before you are busted for felony vandalism/theft...at 20 grand a frame, those babies are most definitely NOT junk.
Oh my, all this over parked rail cars.
Please Bill, give us another Big Dog story while our blood is up!
If Mr. Buffett won't move the ugly, yellow,'junk' railroad cars I may have a solution. Paint all the ugly cars blue like a Montana trout stream,Clear Creek. Place silhouettes of fly fishermen along Clear Creek.Visitors travelling through Montana on the highway will see it as a 'blue ribbon' trout stream,Clear Creek, next to the Missouri River.What do you think Mr.Buffett??...It will create "jobs" to.
Comment By Tom, 11-18-09Some of you may think the rail cars are ugly and a blight on the scenery. Maybe so. But they will eventually be moved.
A far worse ugly blight is the suburban sprawl that has spread along the Missouri River corridor from Craig to Great Falls.
The only thing that will remove that mess is if Holter Dam breaks and sends an enemic wall of water down the canyon to perform a high colonic cleansing.
If the rail cars aren't "junk" how long do they have to sit there before they are"junk"? After all these years I have to guess that IF they were ever to be used again it would take a good bit of maintenance to get them going again. Those cars aren't making any money or creating jobs, and they've been there for years. The logical choice is to build the trail. That creates jobs, rusting rail cars that will probably just sit there until all they're good for is scrap doesn't.
Comment By Tom von Alten, 11-19-09You might like to know that the Association of American Railroads reports that "New freight cars cost between $40,000 and $100,000 depending on the type and features. The Class I railroad average for 2006 was $84,242.
There is a significant amount of capital stored on the line in question, and in other places around the country. "A good bit of maintenance" is part of the cost of doing RR business, not a reason to scrap cars.
I never said scrap the cars. I said they would sit there until that's all there good for. Any bets on that???
Comment By Dave Skinner, 11-19-09Obviously, Ray,
You don't understand railroading.
The entire point of railroad transport is fluidity. Without question. If a car has to be stored, the best place is on inactive track, preferably in a remote location where vandalism is a minor issue. Montanans tend to be pretty respectful of property rights in a comparative sense than someone in downtown LA. Too cold for bums and winos.
Why not in a yard? Again, fluidity. If I have a big fancy 28 track yard I do not want to plug up 15 tracks when I still have 28 sorts I need to make. Better that I can switch as I need to and keep my remaining customer base happy.
Then there is what a railroad car is. It takes nothing to mothball one of these babies, they are engineered specifically for one of the harshest environments you can imagine...from 40 below to 115 above, with near-absolute reliability. A little surface rust on half-inch steel? Pshaw. The wheel bearings are some of the ruffest, tuffest, beefiest setups you can imagine, engineered for million-mile reliability in a shock-loading environment that would knock your eyeballs loose.
Properly gas the air-brake systems with preservative mist and you could probably reach in there 20 years from now and, with some new hoses, go railroading. Or, if the Chinese jack up the price of steel high enough, drag them either to the scrapper OR put them on a boat so the Chinese can retrofit them for THEIR railroads.
The cars already have graffiti, and since they're built to last I'm sure they could handle a little more in an environment that isn't as well suited for the type of trail that Bill is talking about. Rails-to Trails have been successful all over the country and the world. I think we can find somewhere better to store rail cars for the next 20 years.
Comment By bearbait, 11-19-09I am no authority on railroads, and running one. I do know, however, from my years involved with sawmills and selling lumber, that many, many entities own railcars. The railroads have never had the capital to own their cars in total. So there has been a huge railcar leasing deal ongoing for decades. You can be a part of a syndicate or whatever that owns and leases railcars. If you look on the side of them, the NTSB or whoever regulates railroads today, requires that ownership of the car be written on the car somewhere. Or who owns and leases the car. My point: BNSF most likely does not own all those cars. And, might in fact be charging rent to the owners of the cars to store them while they are surplus to the current needs of the freight trade.
I somehow assume that the Pullman Company owned the Pullman cars, and maybe even the people who worked them on the train were Pullman employees, even though NP power was pulling the train, or whoever or whatever railroad. As I stated before, the railroad deal has been around and working in three different centuries in this country, and for the longest time owned state legislatures and the Congress. Railroads made the laws that govern them. And I would suppose all the financial vehicles to own and operate a railroad with union help in some sort of monopoly and track sharing within the monopoly, has resulted in a body of law, regulation, rules, and case law that is byzantine at the least.
So when you talk about "taking on the railroad" you had better know what you are doing, because the railroad lawyers have been taking people to school for well over one hundred years. And to the economic woodshed. I imagine that right now, the railcars in storage deal is like bundled mortgages that were sliced and diced and spread like cow manure across the plains of banking and finance. How can you produce a mortgage holder when that mortgage is held in fractional ownerships across the world? The same will apply to railcars. The law will have you serving papers on the owners of record of each and every car, and the process servers will cost you more than you ever imagined. My best example is the local weekly newspaper in my county. Each week there are 5 or more pages of foreclosure notices and other legal postings, which is guaranteed money to the paper. They are doing fine while the dailies reduce staffing by 20% or more each quarter. The paper boy threw the Salem paper towards my door, and it flew down the street like an autumn leaf. And probably weighs about what a leaf does. It is shorter, skinnier, and less pages every month. It might come out in postcard form by next year.
Moving a railroad is tough work. Expanding one tougher. Making one do something tougher yet. In the pictionary, under "monolith," is a picture of the BNSF Board of Directors. Rant till you run out of breath. The railroad can and will wait, and then do what they damn well please when it pleases them. I have a lifetime of being disappointed by railroads, their service, and in dealing with their management. I would just as soon never have to deal with them ever again. And I won't. They are a parallel government, really, in these United States. Even their employees get Railroad Retirement, and not Social Security, from the Federal Government.
I don't know about "taking on the railroad" , and I think Bill mis-worded the following "For years, people in central Montana have been encouraging, if not begging, BNSF to legally abandon (instead of just not use) a 94-mile section of rail line between Great Falls and Helena".
What needs to happen is Rail banking. Railbanking (as defined by the National Trails System Act , 16 USC 1247 (d)) is a voluntary agreement between a railroad company and a trail agency to use an out-of-service rail corridor as a trail until some railroad might need the corridor again for rail service.
Yes restoring a line converted to trail would be costly, BUT does anyone honestly think they will use the line again? That's the real question. If not, then it is a perfect candidate for a rails-to-trails project.