Blogvertorial

A Year-Round Recreation Destination

By Special Advertiser, 6-27-06

The Bitterroot Team aspires to build a family-friendly recreation venue that is accessible to and benefits all members of the Missoula and Bitterroot Valley communities. Bitterroot Resort is designed to be a year-round recreation destination with alpine, snowboard and cross-country ski venues, signature golf, fly-fishing, mountain biking, ice skating and other amenities existing alongside a four-season resort village and residential community.

A Suitable Future for Bitterroot Resort
The premier alpine recreation site we envision will be made possible with the same pioneering spirit and hard work the Maclay family has historically displayed. The value of those efforts holds today, as Bitterroot Resort will showcase quality recreation opportunities for skiers, snowboarders, and countless summer guests as well.

Although many forces may draw us to the slopes—the thrill and excitement of sliding down a mountain, the chance to reconnect with family and friends—we can never underestimate the value of the natural surroundings in renewing the human spirit. We respect the natural settings that The Maclay family has called home and hope that through our current effort, we will preserve this same experience for future generations to enjoy.



Our plan presents an exceptional opportunity to build Western Montana’s financial capital and at the same time make wise use of natural resources. Bitterroot Resort is unprecedented in its ability to accommodate both Economic and Environmental Sustainability. For us, “Sustainability” means striking a healthy balance between the enjoyment of the land by people with environmental quality, and economic vitality in order to meet our current needs without jeopardizing the needs of the future.

Economic Sustainability
Is the Bitterroot Resort plan really about real estate or skiing? In today’s resort industry, you can’t have one without the other. Since 1984, the number of ski areas operating in the United States declined 32 percent, from 727 areas in the 1984/85 season to 494 areas in the 2003/04. Unfortunately, ski areas without multiple revenue streams will continue to drop out of the industry.

Bitterroot Resort, with the combination of the Maclay Ranch base property and the use of public lands for recreation, is a highly sustainable venture. Industry observers understand that an Economically Sustainable, modern ski resort cannot be built without the advantage of quality base area real estate. The opportunity to raise capital through the sale and development of real estate in the base area provides the financial resources necessary to build a quality alpine resort.



The reality is that the substantial equity derived from real estate allows for quality infrastructure in the form of gondolas, high-speed chairs and automated snowmaking. In fact, the ability of Bitterroot Resort to absorb additional snowmaking costs may be the crucial factor in remaining economically viable in the future.

Montana’s economic growth depends on our giving visitors exceptional playgrounds to drive our second-leading industry - recreation and tourism. Bitterroot Resort would be an economically sustainable use of public lands because it would support local tourism and would generate significant job growth and entrepreneurial activities for local communities. Greater capital investment will circulate through our communities many times over, as overall wages go up, so does the amount of goods and services purchased.

Environmental Sustainability
As members of the western Montana community, we find ourselves needing more than ever to escape every day pressures by heading for the outdoors. With that increasing demand come impacts and a number of emerging environmental concerns that must be addressed proactively. Bitterroot Resort has adopted an Environmental Charter as a roadmap for Environmental Sustainability in our operations.


Our Environmental Promise
To be leaders among outdoor recreation providers by managing our businesses in a way that demonstrates our commitment to environmental protection and stewardship while meeting public expectations and allowing for continued enjoyment by future generations.

• Like our guests, we enjoy the outdoors and appreciate the alpine environment as our home. A strong environmental ethic underlies our operations, makes us stewards of the natural surroundings, and is the basis for our commitment to constant improvement in environmental conditions.



• The recreation opportunities that our ski area will provide will contribute to improve the quality of life for our community, and the natural surroundings greatly enhance those experiences. In providing quality, outdoor recreation opportunities, we strive to balance human needs with ecosystem protection.



• Bitterroot Resort will be well suited to accommodate large numbers of visitors because of our infrastructure and expertise in managing the impacts associated with those visits. By providing facilities for concentrated outdoor recreation in limited geographic areas, we will help limit dispersed impacts in more remote, wild areas.



• Bitterroot Resort will operate within, and be dependent on, natural systems including ecological, climatic and hydrological systems. These dynamic systems can affect our operations, just as we affect them. We are committed to working with stakeholders to help understand and sustain the diversity of functions and processes these systems support.



• In addition, Bitterroot Resort will operate within rural and wild landscapes that are valued for their scenic, cultural, and economic characteristics. We are committed to working with stakeholders to understand and help maintain those characteristics that make these landscapes unique.

Our environmental policies are based on standards established by the National Ski Areas Association’s Sustainable Slopes program and have signed a written pledge to participate according to program guidelines. Organizations contributing to and endorsing the Sustainable Slopes Program include:

Economic Opportunities for Western Montana
Presently, in the absence of a major winter tourist draw, Missoula mirrors the rest of Montana, falling short of its summer tourism numbers by one-third. Bitterroot Resort’s national-class ski facilities and terrain will change that. What’s more, in the summer, a full-service resort on the outskirsts of town with mountain lodging, mountain biking, hiking and wildlife viewing will make Missoula itself a more robust recreation destination in addition to its art and cultural persona.

New Employment Opportunities for Residents
The Bitterroot Resort will provide new employment opportunities in the construction and operation of the alpine and nordic ski resorts, golf courses and overnight accommodations both in the resort village and the surrounding real estate. By way of comparison, ski operations alone at Big Sky, employ approximately 800 people, and Big Mountain employs 450.



Increased Construction Dollars for the Bitterroot Valley
By comparison, at the new Tamarack Resort in McCall, Idaho, 15 different contractors are conducting $52 million in construction projects, employing 450 people to install chairlifts, build a golf course, lodges, and more than 60 cottages and chalets.

Improved Air Service
A small increase in visits would likely foster improved airline service and competitive pricing to Missoula, improving the region’s viability for new business locations, convention, and vacations.

Our Partnership with the Forest Service
Caring for the land and serving the American people is the mission of the Forest Service. Accordingly, the National Forests are managed for the use and enjoyment by the American people in a manner that maintains healthy ecosystems and the integrity of natural settings.

The Forest Service has the responsibility for managing 155 National Forests. Our National Forests occupy a majority of the mountainous terrain best suited for ski area development, and the Forest Service has been involved with the development of ski areas since the 1930s.

• Ski resort leases utilize less than 1/10 of 1% of the total acreage of our National Forests.



• More than 130 ski areas in the United States operate under Forest Service permits on National Forests in 18 states.



• Resorts generate over 30 million skier visits and contribute over $18 million in land use fees to the U.S. Treasury.

The Forest Service has long recognized the enormous potential for downhill skiing and snowboarding at the site of Bitterroot Resort. The Missoula and Bitterroot regions have one of the highest skier rates in the country, and the western Montana lifestyle centers around outdoor recreation. As public sentiment in favor of the proposal is expressed and additional study is completed, we’re confident the Forest Service will view our requests in a positive light.

What happens if the Forest Service rejects our proposal?
If the proposal is denied by the public and the Forest Service, Bitterroot Resort has other options for property development. Even if we are unsuccessful in securing Forest Service approval, many aspects of the project will go forward. Ski runs are in the process of being prepared on private property, and some form of ski development will occur; the runs you see already carved involve approximately the same vertical descent as The Big Mountain.

We would probably not be as competitive as a destination resort if national forest lands were excluded and it’s likely that the economic benefits to the community would be diminished. Of course, in either scenario our preference is to create a readily accessible family-friendly resort and a vibrant community of year-round residents.



Let Us Know if You Are Interested

As with any new development in the early stages, information is limited, however, as key details are finalized, you will be among the first to be notified. It’s easy to become involved and receive information. We will add you to our priority communications list and give you the most up dated information as it becomes available.

Public input is vital.

Show your support and sign the Bitterroot Petition online.

We feel the majority of regional residents favor development of the ski resort on public lands. In a 1988 public referendum, 63 percent supported the creation of a ski area on Lolo Peak.

As supporters of organized public recreation on public land adjacent to Bitterroot Resort, we are gathering signatures of support, encouraging the Forest Service to continue to evaluate the benefits of our request to facilitate organized public recreation on Forest Service lands.

The western Montana community can help guide the process of determining the best solution for the use of public lands and the final plan for Bitterroot Resort. It is critical we allow the public to express a broader viewpoint than that of a very vocal minority seeking to shut the door on growth and development of any kind. [End of article]

Did you bring back to life all the Forest Service trees you cut down outside your property?

Looks like "sustainability" is the buzzword for the PR campaign this time around. This is all very hard to swallow, given the lawsuit (is that what they mean by "our partnership with the Forest Service"?) and "stewards of the natural surroundings" (see comment above).

Those who read the Sunday Missoulian were treated to a four-color, four-page insert with the same text as that appearing above. After I was done reading about "sustainability," I examined the stock photos on the front. A snowboarder catching air...three mountain bikers...a small kid snowplowing on skis...a golfer in mid-swing...and the two I found most interesting, a family enjoying autumn in a deciduous forest (are those maple trees?) -- definitely NOT the western larch/alpine larch stand on Carlton Ridge (see comment above). OK, this might be nit-picking. But then there's the photo of the angler fly-fishing in...wait a minute, are those thermal steam vents?...fly-fishing in Yellowstone! I guess BR's PR company needs a geography lesson...

Despite the slick spread, I'm still not sure why I should pay the Bitterroot Resort to "refresh the human spirit" when I can already do that without spending $65.oo for a lift ticket, $10.00 to park, and $14.50 for a cheeseburger?

Resorts don't refresh the human spirit, they subject it to the same rat race that people in W. Montana are trying to avoid.

He cut down trees on public land. He's an eco-terrorist and should be prosecuted as such. Sustainability?!! Give me a break!

"Resorts generate over 30 million skier visits and contribute over $18 million in land use fees to the U.S. Treasury."

That is way too low- 60 cents a day. They should capture at least $5 off each ticket. The public owns the land.

Seriously volunteer to pay $5 a ski day and get the money earmarked to stay local and work on environmental remediation and I would be more willing to support.

This like every land transfer is about private profit first and foremost. I am not opposed to ski developments per se but want the government to get fair value on the land we own in common.

Maybe some type of partnership with state of Montana or local governments to own at least part of the base the land and then long term lease to you for use.

Any sale of land must come with legal committment to finance necessary ski infrastructure development and committment to maintain at acceptable quality level or land rights forfeited.

I guess I am not clear on how many pubic-owned acres you want to lease and how many you want to get title to so my previous remarks may not have been completely on target. If the spirit of this ad is dialogue and transparency, I would appreciate the exact amounts. Thanks.

What does this A$$ not understand about NO??? This whole thing reminds me of I-147.We said no to it once. Once should be enough.

Cool. It's about time Snowbowl had some competition. Maybe they will start to treat thier customers with some respect. More skiing the better. If you need a cause it should be ATV abuse.

Re-reading the intro on the front page I guess it is
1680 acres requested, all as special use permit?
I'll assume no outright public land sales then? unless someone clarifies.

Jason: The following is from the BR website:

Bitterroot Resort will apply to the Forest Service for a special-use permit that will allow alpine and Nordic skiing on the north-facing slopes of Carlton Ridge, and in the Carlton Lake Basin area below Lolo Peak.

Ultimately, the resort wants the use of 12,000 acres of public land.

By the way, it is time to comment on the draft forest plan -- the comment period ends 7 August. You can find the e-mail address at http://www.lolopk.org/index.htm

Hey thanks. 12,000 acres is a much bigger deal to think about.

That friends of lolo peak site has lots of good information.

The illegal treecutting and roadbuilding sure sent a wrong message.

Seems like it will be hard to recover from that and get trust. I am not inclined to trust right now.

Do the resort representatives show willingness to meet with directly and discuss the issues and possible acceptable solutions? Are you willing to have that type dialogue?

I assume it is probably no both ways right now. But sometimes it can evolve into that. I guess we'll find out.

Had some good friends harassed by workers while they hiked on the FS property up there. Go ahead, try hiking the trail from the FS parking area. You have to go on the roads beacause the trail has gone missing due to all the construction. They don't want you up there if you aren't paying them for the privilidge. The signage is misleading, and since private and public property is intermixed, noone can really tell whose land they are on. Support Lolo Peak staying Public! HIKE the area and don't let them keep you out!

Change is inevitable and Tom Mcklay is going to develop his property. I applaud his vigor and resilience in the face of all this negativity by the vocal minority. The economic and recreational improvements this resort would provide will only improve an already wonderful place. I do think it was a mistake cutting the trees on Forest Service Property but tying this to the proposed resort is rediculous. Jobs and improved facilities outway a few trees.

Keep this in perspective. Even at 12,000 Acres, this is such a small percentage of the National Forest Service Land. I love the increase in Wilderness that the Forest Service has recommended but lets designate some to play on too!

Of all the lame and crapy things going on in this country and around the world, I just can't believe how many negative comments and efforts are going to the ski resort. Put that much whinning and complaining to the leaders of this state and country and maybe we'll all have better and safer lives. I think this kind of change would be good for the Montana people who don't sit in a casino all day or the trailer that they inherited. Sorry, but it seems the economiclly challenged are the only ones who whine and complain about any change to "thier" town or countryside. See my point ?????

I agree with Tom's comment above. I think Tom Mcklay's proposed project will be and economic and recreational opportunity for the entire area. It seems that their development will happen either way... I would rather see it benefit the whole rather than be a "gated ski community" for a few.

This seems to be a family with deep roots in the area - a love and passion for their land - all with hopes of creating a future in a time where past economies can no longer survive. Worse things could happen with this land.

Of course he's resilient, I would bet anything at this point that he is the minority player in this whole plan. Sure he owns the land but you can't tell me that the people holding the money are not the ones pushing this. "Are you serious" way to promote your ignorance, if you are living in Montana, lucky us! Did anyone see the Sunday Missoulian last Sunday. The whole from page was about development. It is obviously dividing people and it seems along the lines of the haves and the have nots. The one that have take every chance they can to throw it back into the faces of the have nots. Real, real productive. It still want to know when will we have enough development. When Missoula stretches all the way to Hamilton? When Kalipell Stretches all the way to Polson. When there is no place to go bird hunting in the Mission valley or fishing in the Bitterrot valley? How many developments do we need? How many times can I hear that I need to sell my house and move if I don't like it? How much more can my taxes and cost of living increase while wages remain at the lowest in the nation. How many times can I listen to the promoters say that this will provide great jobs? When was the last time a job that required no skill or education payed great? People will argue every point I have but in the end, less and less snow every winter will prove Tom a fool for trying to build a low elevation ski resort.

It is good to see some public support for the ski area that Mr. McClay is proposing.

I have a 5 year old son and took him skiing for the first time the past year. Locally there is no place to take children to enjoy the finer aspects of the long Montana winters. Anything longer than a 30 minute drive for that age group will quickly dissipate enjoyment level and a parents sanity. A Missoula family’s best choice, Big Mountain, has nothing for children activities and is a heck of a long drive.

Traveling and hour and a half to what is considered our ‘local’ ski areas (aside from Snowbowl) is not only dangerous in the winter months but also contributing to more traffic and pollution in these areas. Missoula is soon to be the 2nd largest town in Montana with a large base who love to ski and snowboard. Those who comment (the Sierra Club) that we have plenty of areas to ski locally should really check the logistics of travel and expenses. A $65 dollar lift ticket does not seem to steep after a tank of gas, motel room, food and a couple of corndogs.

The lift ticket prices should be a non-issue. The price to operate a large facility with the deserved customer service is quite high. They could drop the rate and pay the employees much less. $65, or so, a day seems the going rate. I would much rather pay that for the amenities received than the increasing prices of Snowbowl that have not changes in years…decades.

If pricing is really an issue, then one should look to the main opponent of the ski development, the Sierra Club. Their guided trips are ridiculously expensive. Check out this one going in to the Bob. https://whistler.sierraclub.org/TripRsv/?logId=475822
Uh…maybe someone can explain why you need to pay such large amount to hike in one of Montana’s wilderness areas? I wonder what they would charge for an excursion to Lolo Peak? Buy a book and a map.

Tom McClay is not that bad of a guy. He is under a public microscope and has been for some time. He is not an ecco-terrorist as mentioned above. The trees that he cut down were obstructing a road that leads into the wilderness area, which should have been up-kept by our NFS. If there is a fire in that area, he might be praised for doing something proactive in our continuous of fires. The whole range is singed up and it is time that some sort of prevention occurs.

Come to think of it. I would argue that ski trails would along Carlton Ridge would create fire-lines to help prevent on any wild fire that may danger Bitterroot-Selway Wilderness area.
It might be the best thing that we could do to protect the area. Also, the lifts would give expedited access to firefighters if something lit up back in the road less areas. It is just a thought.

I am not sure of this, but I have heard that Mr. McClay was one of the proponents to getting the bike path along hwy 93 down in the Bitterroot.

His lawsuit issue is much more complicated than face-value. So many should read-up more before labeling Tom as not a steward of the land. If you drive past his ranch in the Bitterroot, you can see where his property lies; it is one of the only pieces of property that is not filled with cul-de-sacs and billboards.

Anyways. We all have to make a decision if we would love to ski and snowboard in a place just minutes away or if we would love to continue to commute to ski on equal amount of acreage?

"SnowDad's" reasoning is faulty regarding the Sierra Club trip (I'm not a S.C. member, BTW). No one "needs" to pay anything to hike in a Montana Wilderness area. Anyone who pays $700-plus for an 8-9 day wilderness trip does so because they want their gear, meals, route-finding, nature interpretation, etc. provided for them. It's a choice they make if they have the bucks to do it. However, they can also choose to pack their own food, strap on their own pack, grab their own map & field guide, and walk into The Bob for free because is is their public land. No developer is attempting to appropriate 12,000 acres of it -- taking it out of the public domain-- for his own private profit.

I keep hearing that the acreage that the resort is requesting a special use permit for will not be available to the public. This is simply not true. The public will continue to be able to use all of this land because it still belongs to the Forest Service. Snow conditions permitting, I hike Lost Trail every spring after the resort closes and ski the runs they provide under their special use permit. There is no reason the same won't hold true for Carlton Ridge and Lolo Peak. Furthermore, with lift access, I would be able to hike to Carlton Lakes and Lolo Peak with my father who under current conditions wouldn't be able to make it. It's too far. What the resort will provide is better access to this public land. Not "no access"!

I am just happy to see Montana residence consider alternative options for recreation. The casinos are great for some, not so great for others. We have one of the largest natural areas in the lower 48...putting some to use for recreational purposes that can increase tourism and the "Montana way of life" is much better than just allowing the almighty "back country goers" in. I applaud them for packing in, I just cant physically do it due to time etc. Way to go Montana for considering options prior to jumping on the bandwagon of nay-sayers that picket everything in town.

I wish everyone who loves recreation could visit Tamarack Resort in Idaho. Tamarack is in the mountain and lake country between Missoula and Boise. At Tamarack, a ranch owner, investors and the people of Idaho have collaborated to create a year-round recreation destination that has it all -- terrain parks, half-pipes, family-friendly bike trails, fly-fishing, world-class golf and skiing. Don't go to Tamarack without planning to get your fun ticket punched. Fun like this can be had in Montana, too. That's why I support Bitterroot Resort. As Lyle Lovett said in his concert at Tamarack just the other night, if I may paraphrase, "You all live in a beautiful part of the world. We think you have the right idea. We love it, too. It's nice to see the rest of the world discovering what you've known all along."

Yea, it's great for him to discover because he can afford to live wherever he wants. Just what we need, something to attract even more people here, sign me up! NOT! Seems to be all the uninvited that are supporting this minimium wage mecca!

I am not a life long resident of Montana, but a convert from Washington State. As a senior citizen, I have a passion for this valley, it's climate and the the surrounding mountains. I am interested in the controversy that surrounds Lolo Peak, it sounds exactly like the humma-humma that I heard about Crystal Mountain in Washington State about forty years ago. Crystal is now a world class ski facility. I was interested in the last full page, $1000 + - advertisement, in the Missoulian on Tuesday July 11th. I looked at the advertisement and wondered, "now just who are; the friends of Lolo Peak?" I wondered around their website and sure enough, it was the same style of crowd that opposed, "Crystal Mountain." I started skiing with cable bindings and barrel staives about 50 years ago,and about the time I converted to quick release bindings, here came the beginning of the snowboarders. To say there isn't a little anxiety between us old foogies and the suicide, dare devils is an understatement. However, I didn't realize until now, the resentment created by the Nordic Skiers. If you look closely at their advertisement under the guise of the, "Friends of Lolo Peak," you see the term, "remain in its current primitive state." "Current primitive state," means a whole bunch to them as it allows them to continue to ski in the backcountry without having to share it with us, the senile, senior citizens who have learned the value of a chair lift and gravity as opposed to herring bone, up-hill climbing. Tom Maclay is providing, at his expense, opportunities for all skiers to use the facilities during the winter, using snow-cats in lieu of lifts to get to the top of Carlton Ridge.....I think he needs to have the riders sign an oath of alegience, as I am willing to bet that the peelers and whiners are climbing on for a free ride. I don't hear anyone bragging how many trips they made from the trail head to the base of Lolo Peak in the winter time in a single day. The Noric Nay-Sayers also claim to have 2700 signatures on their home made petition, I am willing to wager that I could pick out by random, ten names off that grand list of supposed Montana citizens, and only about one out of the ten could even point out which mountain...... is Lolo Peak.
Bottom line my fellow citizens is the word, "JOBS." I don't see any alternative employment opportunites on that fancy advertisement or the web-page that I mentioned previously. I applaud the individuals that created the "Stockfarm," and I respect the privacy of the rich and famous that live there. However, we as citiizens of this community have the opportunity to have same fun, as the citizens of Bozeman, at Big Sky. If we push, and Maclay pulls, we can enjoy his economic adventure all year long in one capacity or another.....Charge!! Let's make Maclay's dreams, a small part of our dreams!

Jim, you rock! Great points and a great perspective!

Jim-
If Washington is so great, move back there. Botom line-since when do service related jobs pay for a mortgage in Missoula? Oh, I know, NEVER!!
The Stockfarm? When will a normal MT. resident be a member of that monstrosity? Let's try NEVER!!!800K just to buy the smallest cabin they offer and another 1 Million to buy in! Boy, the Stockfarm is really benefiting me and everone I know. Can't wait to have more gated communities. Jim, your ideas and perspectives are exactly what is not needed. If Crystal Mountain is so great, I'll be the one waving at you as you head over the pass back to WA!

Scott,
Tell the guy at the gas station his job isn't worth anything and that closing the station is for the good of all. Better yet, tell his wife and kids. Then tell him he could get a job with the same wage, probably more, and a free season pass at the resort. I bet he jumps on it.
From my point of view (a working man's), jobs are jobs. Carpenters, plumbers, roofers, electricians, engineers, cooks, wait staff, grounds keepers, accountants, etc.. all stand to benefit.
Tell me, what kind of jobs do we want in Missoula and where do they come from? Maybe Santa Claus will come down to Missoula and we can all make toys for $100K a year. That would be great. Maybe we could get sleigh rides to Lolo Peak. Oh no, I'm sure someone would want to pooh pooh that idea too for fear of animal cruelty.
Finally, you missed the whole point regarding the "StockFarm" that Jim referenced. His point is that we, the public, cannot access or enjoy the "StockFarm". The public will be able to use and enjoy Lolo Peak and Tom McKlay is trying to help people that physically can't get up there, get there.
As for the "uninvited" that Blake references above, who invited Blake? Who needs an invitation to enjoy Montana? I can't believe some people's selfishness.
Finally, reality check everyone! Missoula has been discovered. Missoula, Bozeman, Kalispell! Real Estate prices are all going through the roof and a resort is not going to change that. Maybe on the property adjacent to the resort, yes, but not in Missoula. Missoula's real estate prices will take care of themselves. The last five years have proved that.
Thanks for the great write up Jim. From the people I talk to, the majority of the public is with you and I.

"Missoula has been discovered...Real estate prices are all going through the roof and a resort is not going to change that. Maybe on the property adjacent to the resort, yes..."

So that would be Lolo, right? Lolo is never even a blip on the radar screen when these discussions take place! Lolo residents will watch their property taxes rise to the stratosphere? They'll end up getting priced out of their community? Maybe then they can live out of their cars or commute a couple of hours while they work for peanuts at the resort. This is what has happened at other resorts. Here's what happened at Vail... http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=15082

Dude- the public is so NOT with you!

Dear Scott,
You entirely missed the point, "dude." Everyone has a right to move to Montana. The only natives of this state are the Salish, the Nez Pierce and the Blackfeet nations and any other indigenous members of America. The rest of us are all aliens, regardless of when we came here. The things that I love are the things that you love, our perspective is no different. Our method of appreciating and using what we perceive as wilderness is different. Ask the rest of the nation if they know where Yellowstone Park is, most will say, "yes." Ask the same group if they know where Glacier Park is and some will answer, "Yes." Ask them if they know where the Selway Wilderness is and all you are going to get Scott is, a vacant stare! "Vacant," is the operative word Scott, as the Selway is totally vacant of out of state visitors who will bring, out of state money and then after visiting, go back to their, out of state homes. I don't hear anyone at the west gate of Yellowstone complaining about these "Out of State," visitors or their money. Selway is bigger than Glacier and bigger than the state of Deleware....Selway is, "OUR," Wilderness, I would just like the priviledge of riding up the hill on a lift and looking at God's creation down below. A peripherial piece of ground not bigger than 1/10 of 1 per cent of the entire paradise. You can visit the other 99.9 per cent Scott! Thanks for your input...Jim

Dear K. Stachowski,
I have a great deal of sentiment for you on rising real estate prices. The truth of the matter is that there is a direct correlation between the price of the property that you own now and its relative value due to a rich investment next door. Buy now and you won't have to "pray," later. If you don't like the situation, move to Darby as it is where Lolo was ten years ago with respect to property values. I am not trying to be dis-respectful and apologize if you think I am. Face it, this fall, the US population will rise to 300 million citizens. They have to live somewhere? The Minnesota to Idaho corridor is one of the last habitable areas in the United States. Once again, buy now, and when you retire, get someone else to pay for your retirement, you will hardly ever lose money on property....it is unlikey that the Bitterroot Resort will be seen as a waste area at any time in the future.
Thanks for your comments....Jim

K Stachowski,
I agree with you that Vail is off the map but it's because the county let it get that way. Take a look at what's happening in Aspen and Sun Valley where some great thought has been put into growth and affordable housing. This article is on the New West website today under "Resort Economies" and is titled "Why Aspen and Sun Valley look strikingly similar".

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/main/article/9926/

County government can also control property tax increases. If we plan development the right way, why can't the county commissioners limit the extreme property tax increases to the Properties on the Resort? They can. The focus needs to be on proper planning because Florence and Lolo are going to grow and change. The public has to work together to put the right ordinances in place in order to control it. Believe me, I'll be the first in line to speak out against tax increases and speak in favor of affordable housing.

I sympathize with the local dad --because I'm one too. My two kids, ages 11 and 14 love to snowboard and I think the Forest Service is wrong to eliminate the possiblity of a great family mountain like Bitterroot to replace the family ski environment Missoulians once enjoyed at Marshall Mountain.

Don't forget there are some very special, VERY unique trees (a natural hybridization of western and alpine larch) up there that need to be protected from development, don't open the floodgates to more clearcutting under the guise of a ski resort.

I applaud MacClay's ad for using stats from the 1980's to make their case!!! Brilliance. Jack asses.

It ISN'T all about dollars and jobs people, it IS about having a sustainable environment here in Montana for our children and our children's children and so on to live within in the future. Don't fall for this guy's trickery.

poor,
man

Jason, You've been had by the guys with the snokey the bear hats. The larch that is so unique (hybridization of western and alpine larch) exists along the entire Bitterroot Range at that same altitude as that small selected section that the USFS designated. To presume that is the only spot on earth where this hybridization exists is pure fiction at its best.
Secondly, there has never been any clearcutting. The only vegetation that has ever been cut or removed was located on the rightaway that the owners of the water rights to Carlton Lake have used for the past 105 years. The USFS has never assumed the responsibility for cleaning this 60 foot easement and it has been the responsibility of the owner of the patent, the legal document which gives the Maclay Ranch the water rights to that lake. If you like stats which you think are fractured, then I challenge you to read Ed Ryberb's justification as why there just shouldn't be another ski resort....global warming is one of his main contentions...And as for my children and all their forthcoming prodigy, I want them to see the Selway for all it's magnificance, I want them to see the Bitterroot Valley from the peaks which surround it....I do not want to sit at an office somewhere in Missoula and look at the horizon and "think," I can see Lolo Peak..
Selway is our widerness Jason, each of us has the right to view it in our own perspective...
Thanks for your comments...Jim

Tim, I totally agree with your viewpoint. Snowbowl is too steep for the younger, "daredevils," and once you enter that downhill gauntlet, gravity becomes a bigger force than kids realize. The intermediate and beginner slopes at Bitterrot will give you much more enjoyment, and less anxiety about the day, as once you turn your kids loose, they are gone like quail in the weeds....but they do show up for lunch...that never fails. I hope you and your children will enjoy this sport throughout your lifetime and will not have to drive 75 miles to get there. You can leave your office, pick up the family and be at the top of the Bitterroot via Gondola (if the 12,000 acres is approved) in 45-60 minutes...Thanks for your comments...Jim

"In total, Maclay has illegally cut approximately 400 trees on the National
Forest, including trees located within the Carlton Ridge Research Natural Area (RNA), a
nationally unique ecosystem which is permanently protected and managed in its natural
state." From United States of America, plaintiff vs. Tom Maclay, defendent

The RNA is where the scientific inquiry is taking place. Anyone knows (or DO they?) that scientists do not just pick up and move on-going study to another location.

"Ask the rest of the nation if they know where Yellowstone Park is, most will say, "yes." Ask the same group if they know where Glacier Park is and some will answer, "Yes." Ask them if they know where the Selway Wilderness is and all you are going to get Scott is, a vacant stare! "Vacant," is the operative word Scott, as the Selway is totally vacant of out of state visitors who will bring, out of state money and then after visiting, go back to their, out of state homes."

Yellowstone and Glacier are national parks. The Selway-Bitterroot is a congressionally-designated Wilderness. They are guided by completely different management policies aimed toward completely different end results, offering very different experiences to their users. Wilderness areas are to be preserved & protected in their "natural condition," "untrammeled by man" (unrestrained), "without permanent improvements or human habitation," and offering solitude to its visitors. (Full text of the Wilderness Act at http://www.leaveitwild.org/reports/wilderness1964PF.html

One would hope that a private developer asking for the use of federal roadless land would have at least this most basic grasp of federal land designations -- the difference between Yellowstone and the Selway-Bitterroot!

Wilderness areas are not promoted like the national parks, so it's no surprise that many Americans are unfamiliar with particular units. We've all heard of the Great Smoky Mountains, the nation's most-visited national park, but how many are familiar with the Citico Creek Wilderness, Tennessee's largest? It's doubtful that many Montanans are, yet that is not to say that Citico Creek is without value. Wilderness areas provide us with so much more than visitor numbers and dollars.

By the way, if you think that Wilderness doesn't generate out-of-state dollars, just google "Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness outfitters" and see what you get.

Hello to both Jim and Jason. To Jim, let me say I don't have any problem with Snowbowl, we have lots of fun there and it's a nice, close option. What I don't like is the much longer, more expensive and wasteful drive to get to Whitefish or Big Sky so we can appreciate the kind of amenities those resorts have to offer. I'm hoping Bitterroot will offer the same level of service and product similar to other destination resorts throughout the Rockies. To Jason, the way I understand it -- the Forest Service wants to dramatically increase the buffer zone around the larch tree area -- and that's simply unnecessary. Why can't the larch tree area be left "as is" and the ski runs placed so as not to interfere? I promise my kids won't "Bonk" their snowboards off of any of the rare hybrids.

Tim, The whole concept of the Research site that the USFS has picked is bogus....anyone from botany 101 will tell you that those hybird larch's are in a band at that altitude,probably, the whole length of the Bitterroot Mountains. Incidently,why would you pick a site for scientific study when it is so close to a "supposedly," busy trail to and from Lolo Peak and be exposed to the intrusion of human beings...thanks for the comments. Jim

J. Stachowski,
You wrote "Anyone knows (or DO they?) that scientists do not just pick up and move on-going study to another location."

Wasn't the RNA moved 20 years ago to accomdate a Forest Service proposed ski resort on Lolo peak?

Jason M.

Do you really think that a ski resort will jeopardize "a sustainable environment here in Montana for our children and our children's children and so on to live within in the future"? Please tell me how?

I am a proponent of Research areas as well as Backcountry and Wilderness. I too want to see growth in these areas but we need balance. Relocation of the research area or skiing around it should be an option. Designating other areas of the forests for wilderness is feasable as well.

Tom wrote: "Wasn't the RNA moved 20 years ago to accomdate (sic) a Forest Service proposed ski resort on Lolo peak?"

Looks like someone needs to do his homework. According to the Forest Service website on Research Natural Areas, the Carlton Ridge RNA was CREATED in 1987.

As for the hybrid larches appearing throughout the Bitterroots, this also is from the website:
"Although alpine larch is a common component of the upper timberline forests in the Bitterroot Mountains, its occurrence on well-developed soils on Carlton Ridge is a rare phenomenon; typical habitats for alpine larch are coarse talus and boulder slopes. Park-like stands of alpine larch and whitebark pine on Carlton Ridge occur as 'ribbon forests' with snowglade communities. A combination of snow and wind creates the pattern of ribbon forests." More at
http://rna.nris.state.mt.us/rna_detail.asp?sitecode=S.USMTFS*331

Dear K. Stachowski,
The significance of a study is that it will enable the botanists to review those factors which can positively affect the greatest amount of larch trees throughout the Bitterroot Range. Spending a great deal of time and effort reviewing a supposed, "one of a kind stand of timber," is frivoulous at best. More importantly, why select an RNA site so close to a "well used," so they say, trail where the human intrusion is so common. Do they plan to show it off so that the public can understand why they are using our money to study our forest, even though it may be one of a kind. Or....is this a "stonewall,"stand of trees designed to impede the progress of a ski resort when the subject of a ski resort has been on the books for years. Come on USFS, do the right thing, do your job, show us the trees and let the skiers maneuver around the perimiter of the Larch in question....Thanks for your comments...Jim

Dear K. Stachkowski,
The Mclay Ranch has has had a right-a-way to Carlton Lake for decades, even prior to the creation of the Selway Wilderness. I would like tht USFS to show pictures of trees that were removed that were not in the 60 foot egress that is part of the right-a-way. A tree in the eyes of the USFS is a seedling, a sapling and a three inch immature growth about 3-5 years old. There was no "old growth," involved in the clearing of the right-a-way. The USFS has ignored their responsibility to maintain USFS Trail 1311 Lolo Peak Trail for years. The Mclay family has totally borne that responsibility.
P.72 of the USFS Management Plan for the Bitterroot Forest states: Access and travel management. These areas are not suitable for motorized or mechanized use or travel (including such devices as gliders, cars or bicycles) except in emergencies or other special situations. One special situation would be for the operation, maintenance, construction or breaching of privately-owned dams where motorized tools or helicopters are needed.
Carlton Lake is exactly the type of water reservoir stated above and has been in that capacity since 1895. Mclay had a right to maintain that road, and the removal of the brush that was on that 60 foot easement was perfectly within his domain. The USFS has filed a meritless and frivilous lawsuit and that fact will be verified, if it ever gets to court.
Thanks for your comments....Jim

To all you who write here in opposition to McClay's attempt to grow rich beyond any of our wildest dreams at the expense of beautiful Lolo Peak:

What are you doing blogging here? I know, it's tempting to rebut the specious arguments and deflate the phony ad (loved that picture of Yellowstone -- 6 hours away -- he's using in hope of getting us to sate his greed!)

But as they say, never wrestle with a pig (in this case McClay's hired spinmeisters) -- you both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Huband and the rest of the smug "nay-sayers" -- I'll observe that there probably hasn't been a new resort of any kind started in the past 30 years without the assistance of professional marketing and sales professionals -- the "pig" you refer to. It's just good sound business practice. And the use of stock photography is a recognized, accepted practice when communication the vision of what may be in the future, but not yet developed. I've worked at resorts for quite some time, and will also say that I'm happy for the paycheck and the ski pass -- and my family lives just fine. I'd say the Forest Service and the Sierra Club (aka Friends of Lolo)are pulling out all the stops when they have to criticize the resort for using professionals to assist with getting the straight story out to the public -- IMHO the real story is the FS/SC have manipulited the proposal under the guise of environmentalism just to stop Maclay's proposed ski area lease. Just my two cents.

Jim -the transplant, all appears to be on McClays payroll.

Dear Wade,
I am retired military and work for no one. I learned in the military that you need to do your homework before you make your opinions/"facts," known. I called the Bitterroot Resort and made an appointment to talk with their staff. I wanted my questions answered face to face. I visited their site and went to the top of Carlton Ridge. I viewed the supposed "logging site." I satisfied my own curiosity and then acquired a copy of the USFS CD Rom, "Proposed Management Plan." All of these are items that you can duplicate. I have a passion for this Bitterroot Valley and maybe someday, I will be considered a resident by my neighbors. In the meantime, I believe that I have made the right decision to support the Bitterroot Recreational Resort for my children and grand-chilodren's sake. I have "no," monetary relationship with anyone other than Uncle Sam. Thanks for your comments.....Jim
PS. Please share this information with your barnyard spectator, Huband.

One thing you all seem to be forgetting about is water. Have you seen how low the Bitterroot is right now? How about Lolo Creek? An extensive resort development project will seriously tax the ground water in this area, whether for snowmaking, drinking, or whatever. If development continues at this rate there will not be trout in the Bitterroot below Hamilton. Mr Maclay is first in line-first in right so he can take as much of that water as he wants. Water temperatures in the lower Bitterroot are 80 degrees right now. Suck even more water and kiss the trout goodbye. Also, name me one person who works as a line cook, supports a family and is happy and I'll buy you dinner. Chef maybe but a burger-flipper? Come on.

I'm not an expert on Hydrology, Baetis, but you better stop the 400+ residents moving to the Bitterroot every year if you think the increase in Water Temp. is due to increased development.
K. Stachowski,
I did some homework. You're right, the RNA wasn't moved in 1987. It was specifically located where it is in order to accomodate the Public and Forest Service supported ski area on Lolo Peak and Carlton Ridge. Hence, skiing around it should be just fine now. It was then!

Baetis,
The water that the Bitterroot Recreational Resort will utilize will come, primarily, from the Carlton Lake on the other side of the Bitterroot Ridge line, plus any wells that they create on the east side of the Carlton Ridge. The Maclay Ranch has property which runs to the Bitterroot River area on the east side of HWY 93, however, any water drawn there would not be used at the resort area..If you are concerned about water in the Bitterroot, you need to investigate the Bitterroot Irigation District (BRID) if you want to know where that water goes..Thanks for your comments, Jim

Wanting to provide a better life and "sustainability" for your children and grandchildren is a goal sought after by many. If you support this ski area and other money driven developments, you better be able to give those children and grandchildren a grand inheritance or they won't be able to live in the Montana you envision for them.

Red Dancer,
Like it or not, we are all faced with the same dilemma, population. By the fall of 2006, the US will have a population of 300 million citizens, not counting the illegal ones. This situation with the Bitterroot Resorts boils down to one issue. Do we want it to be a public development where the size of the facility allows a lot of participants to pay a smaller amount of money or do we want a few, "rich and famous folks," to pay a lot of money? I for one would like to see the former, rather than the latter. The 12,000 acres is our property, yours and mine, and although our opinions may differ, when you consider that the Selway Wilderness is 1.3 million acres, the Lolo National Forest is 2 million acres and the Bitterroot National Forest is 1.6 million acres, and over 1/3 of all of that will be looged off in the future, 12,000 acres is just a pittance of the total and will be there for the lifetime our grandchildren and their grandchildren as a recreation area that all of us can enjoy.....I wish you well, thank you for your comments....Jim

Jim,
I have enjoyed reading your posts and I think you have an optimist's heart. The acreage is not the point to me, although I wonder,will they be limited to only 12,000 acres forever or is there an option for expansion? I was born and raised in Montana and I live in Tennessee right now for a number of reasons, one being that I cannot afford to live in the regions of Montana that I desire. All over the state and others, including Idaho and Colorado, residents are being displaced by higher and higher property prices and the taxes that result. Bozeman is pretty much out of reach for a person who wants to have a little piece of land to call her own. My dream town is Sandpoint, Idaho, and the prices for homes there are laughable. I've lived in Vail and just in the 3 years I spent working and playing in the snow, my rent options for A BEDROOM went from $500 to $850 (sometimes it's close to $1000 for a room!) a month. My friends who want to realize their dreams of being homeowners have to go down valley--or even up higher in the mountains--making their commute anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple of hours. They drive into a resort town full of very wealthy, high maintenance people who call Vail their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th (and so on) home. Has this developer presented or even thought about a plan for the ski area's employees and the affordable housing they are going to need down the road? Don't kid yourself, property will skyrocket in Missoula, whether this is a "public development" or a private one. And the company developing it talks a good talk but we all know that the bottom line isn't environmental or economic sustainability (ooh! how those words sound so nice, this company must really be responsible and caring for the community and the environment!), it's simply the bottom line--how much money they can rake in. I just want to be reassured of the long term. You can not throw out words like "sustainability" and ease my fears.

"Bitterroot Resort, with the combination of the Maclay Ranch base property and the use of public lands for recreation, is a highly sustainable venture. Industry observers understand that an Economically Sustainable, modern ski resort cannot be built without the advantage of quality base area real estate. The opportunity to raise capital through the sale and development of real estate in the base area provides the financial resources necessary to build a quality alpine resort."
Re-read this paragraph I copied from above carefully. It makes me very very nervous and unless you can afford a 7 figure vacation home or you are a real estate agent, it should you, too.

I have a feeling that this proposition will go through and to be honest, the good folks of Missoula deserve a fun and close ski resort. I love the snow too much to deny them. I would just hope that the developers and the Bitteroot Valley can learn from the mistakes of Vail, Big Sky, Big Mountain, Sun Valley, Aspen, Tahoe.....and the list goes on and on. Make sure this venture doesn't push out the good folk like you who voted for it for purer reasons--some of the good folk could be my sister and her husband, both blue collar, hard workers and their 2 children. Even in Tennessee, I have a stake in this.

Aurora

Dear Aurora,
You deffinately have a "steak," in this activity. The Bitterroot and Lolo National Forests are "National Forests," and certainly affect the concerns of every citizen in the United States. This is not just an adventure for the communities of Missoula and Ravalli Counties! I share some of your concerns, but the pay grades involved in the final decision making process are way above mine. To alleviate my concerns, I made an appointment and visited with Tom Maclay, himself. I could tell by his personal pride that this was his dream. His family, the Maclains, homesteaded this area when Montana was still a territory. In 1898, the elder Maclain, paid $1.50 to residents of Florence to build a road to the headwaters of Carlton Stream....there they built a reservoir and that easement exists today in a wooded area which became a national forest in 1907. The Bitterroot and the Maclain family existed side by side until about two generations ago, a Maclain daughter was married to a Maclay and the rest you probably know all about. This is a Maclay Residance through and through and will stay that way, I think, for generations to come. Having said that, the homes at this resort will be expensive to say the least. This is true of almost any ski resort. The property that is contiguous will rise in value due to the value of the resort. No doubt abouot it. But, that is not what the conflict is about, do we want to have a resort which allows the public to participate based on the amount of land and the volume of participants, or do we want it to be a playground for the righ and famous? My remarks are not meant to be demeaning, these individuals deserve their privacy. The Bitterroot and Lolo National Forests are public property, the public ought to get to use a small portion on the peripherial edge of these "National Forest" areas. Gifford Pinchot said it best, "In the administration of the Forest Service, it must be clearly borne in mind that all land is to be devoted to its most productive use for the permanent good of the whole people and not for the temporary benefit of individuals or companies......" I believe that Tom Maclay is offering the USFS the opportunity to productively use 12,000 acres of our property. Thanks for your comments...Jim

Do any of you ever drive out hwy 12 outside of Lolo? It seems like I have seen a lot of larger log homes in that area that are new. Will property values go up since the first 12 miles from Lolo are petty scienic? Or will it just be the resort property that goes for Millions? I don't really have anything against the resort and believe it will be great for the Montana economy that seems to currently suck. What do you think?

How soon will the forest service and the resort let us know which way this project will go(public or private)? How soon there after do you figure property values will sky rocket in Lolo and Missoula?
There seems to be alot more support for this idea than I would have thought. I was against the resort at first but am now for it.

Q&A;,
Click on some of the links above that send you to an online Rocky Mountain news agency, http://www.highcountrynews.org and read those archived articles. The resort won't be the only place where the property value goes up. And up. And up.

It may help the economy, but the good people of Lolo won't be able to afford to live in their town unless the citizens and officials of it do some major planning, zoning and praying.

Dear Red Dancer,
The tidal wave of popultaion in the US, 300 million by October, is gradually ebbing towards the states of Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas and Minnesota. Those big homes being built in the Lolo area have little or nothing to do with a resort that is at least two years down the road. I believe many of us are now going though the same emotional feeling that the Salish must have went through when the government pushed them out of the Bitterroot Valley. People just don't want "change," they want things to remain the same. Well, they need to stop and think, "Why are their children moving to other states to secure work?" Montana is at the bottom of the bucket with respect to unemployment. This resort in question will provide 400 jobs, 200 full time, and 200 part time..they will provide their own sewage treatment facility,(Lolo and Florence may need to access that)and as I drive down Hwy 93, I would rather look at trees with a fire break in the summer time than the homes that are creeping up the hills around the perimeter of the city of Missoula. Thank you for your comments....Jim

Dear Question and Support,
The USFS is entertaining public input through Sept. 7, 2006, and then after that they will make their decision. Your input is valuable. The phone directory can lead you to the USFS. How timely their decision is unknown. I don't believe that you will be able to see the resort from Highway 12, however, the portion that has nothing to do with the requested 12,000 acres is under construction and is very visible from Highway 93 between Lolo and Florence...thanks for your comments,.....Jim

This resort will move Western Montana in the wrong direction. First, it will undoubtably cater to and attract wealthy people to the valley which will drive up property values beyond what locals can afford (see: summit county CO, vail valley CO, sun valley ID; big sky MT for details of this well established western trend). Second, while the resort provides locals the illusion of a better future through "jobs," it will actually create dead-end, meaningless service sector employment where locals get to serve and clean up after out of town wealth. No one has figured out a way to avoid this scenario; not Tom Maclay, not Jim the PR guy, not Thomas Power, not vail resorts, not intrawest, NO ONE.

Red Dancer is spot on; a mega-resort in the Bitterroot will irretrievably change western montana for the worse by pricing locals out of the housing market and creating low-paying service sector jobs.

Like Red Dancer, I also lived in the Vail Valley. Here is what it is like ... After working up to 3 service sector jobs at a time for 3 years and renting a loft in a two bedroom apartment for what most people pay on a mortgage, I left Vail as a net-economic loss. There was never anyway that I was going to be able to buy a home or settle down working in the service industry. The only people who made enough money to actually consider settling down in Vail were real estate owners, developers, and agents. It is not a coincindence that Tom Maclay wears at least two of these hats - the bigger the resort the more he has to gain, period.

Contrary to what Jim the PR guy wants you to believe, this is not just about whether the resort will be open to the public or not. It is about whether we decide to fundamentally change the quality of life for people who have chosen to live in western MT, despite the lower wages, in order to enjoy a life free of mega-resorts, Bogner ski suits and over-priced schwag.

First of all, it is not clear that the BR can be a legitimate ski resort without the public land component. Those ski slopes had little to no snow on them all of 05-06 - which was an above average snow year - the east facing slopes where Maclay didn't groom were basically brown. The neat PR pictures of a winter shangri-la are just that, they are PR pictures. As Maclay and Jim the PR guy acknowledge, without the public land component, the resort will have a very hard time competing with other regional resorts that have higher elevation terrain. Is Tom Maclay one to build a resort that cannot compete? He certainly wants you to believe that he will; hence the "i'm building it regardless of whether we get public land approval or not" blackmail effort. We'll see.

As you consider supporting or not supporting this resort, think about the legacy of other mega-resorts in the west, think about whether the BR will really create a job that you want to work, think about whether trophy homes are a part of why you live here.

I'm not really sure what to think about Jim the PR guy's Salish comments. That said, if Jim the PR guy really believes that many of us are going through the same emotional feelings that the Salish people went through, it is only appropriate to ask him whether a mega-resort on Lolo peak is the best remedy? I'm guessing that the Salish would have answered with a resounding... NO.

Response to the "unamed author,' who wrote to the title, "A year-Round Recreation Destination."

Your article is interesting, but is full of half truths and no-truths. I will respond honestely, and truthfully to each one of your comments:

>The title of the entry is:
>A Year-Round Recreation Destination
>
>This resort will move Western Montana in the wrong direction. First, it
>will undoubtably cater to and attract wealthy people to the valley which
>will drive up property values beyond what locals can afford (see: summit
>county CO, vail valley CO, sun valley ID; big sky MT for details of this
>well established western trend)

I cannot think of a single financial investment by any firm, corporate industry, or business that is profitable, that will not drive up the property values of any property that is contiguous to the property in question. Would you rather like to think that the business venture should be a flop and drive the property values down? The very fact that HWY 93 is moving to four lanes makes every square inch of property on that highway more valuable as it now moves from residential to commerical property values.

. Second, while the resort provides locals
>the illusion of a better future through "jobs," it will actually create
>dead-end, meaningless service sector employment where locals get to serve
>and clean up after out of town wealth.

Face it "No Name," skiing and golf are sports that are more expensive than bowling or family cards. But, you have a choice, let these folks than can afford it, plus the out-of-town citizens, who drive all the way through Missoula to get to the resort, spend their out-of-town money and return to their out of town homes, happily thinking about the next time they can repeat the process....

No one has figured out a way to
>avoid this scenario; not Tom Maclay, not Jim the PR guy, not Thomas Power,
>not vail resorts, not intrawest, NO ONE.

Sooo, with your interest, perhaps you can provide the answer? And "No-Name," I am not the PR Guy for the Bitterroot Resort, I have no financial affiliation with the BR Resort in any capacity. I am an interested citizen who has taken the extra step to depreciate the half-truths and no-truths published by the nay- sayers, from where ever you are. I see this as legitimate jobs in a community where a job at Wall Mart is a respectable, position in life and the jobs at the Bitterroot Resort will be competitive.
>
>Red Dancer is spot on; a mega-resort in the Bitterroot will irretrievably
>change western montana for the worse by pricing locals out of the housing
>market and creating low-paying service sector jobs.
>
NO Name, drive South down HWY 93, out of Missoula look left,look right, every quarter mile on either side is a brand new home being built, land has increased in value by 25% over the past four years....what has this got to do with a resort that won't even be opened for another two years?

>Like Red Dancer, I also lived in the Vail Valley. Here is what it is like
>... After working up to 3 service sector jobs at a time for 3 years and
>renting a loft in a two bedroom apartment for what most people pay on a
>mortgage, I left Vail as a net-economic loss. There was never anyway that I
>was going to be able to buy a home or settle down working in the service
>industry.

No Name, I am not trying to be disrespectful, but education and experience in a specific field are you only paths to success. Life is tough all over the US, especially if you are saddled with a lack of the two previously mentioned areas. Qualified employees who are savvy in the area of machine maintenance, ski-lift management, golf course management, plus the normal commercial experience found in a ski resort village area will be well rewarded for their time and effort.

The only people who made enough money to actually consider
>settling down in Vail were real estate owners, developers, and agents.

I sincerely doubt that, you have identified only three areas and have completely ignored the infra-structure that supports a community. With you moxee of who makes the money, get a real-estate license and jump into the puddle.

It is not a coincindence that Tom Maclay wears at least two of these hats - the
>bigger the resort the more he has to gain, period.

You failed to point out the biggest no-truth, of this entire conversation. It's Tom Maclays dime that is paying for this entire enterprise. Does he have a financial backer, I can't imagine that he doesn't. The last time you had a dream and wanted to move out of that attic appartment in
Vail, did you go to a bank and get some financial backing and wind up with a mortgage. Tom Maclay has 2900+ acres that he is developing without any tax payers money involved.


>
>Contrary to what Jim the PR guy wants you to believe, this is not just about
>whether the resort will be open to the public or not.

Not true, as I said before, I have no financial affiliation with the Bitterroot Resort in any capacity, and my only perk is a "Bitterroot Resort Baseball Cap."

It is about whether
>we decide to fundamentally change the quality of life for people who have
>chosen to live in western MT, despite the lower wages, in order to enjoy a
>life free of mega-resorts, Bogner ski suits and over-priced schwag.

No Name, it's going to happen, I have no control over it happening, you have no control in whether it happens, Tom Maclay is in control of his destiny and the public is in control of making their comments and feelings known to the USFS...we both have one vote...so go vote "No Name."
>
>First of all, it is not clear that the BR can be a legitimate ski resort
>without the public land component.

It's Tom Maclay's investment, he's spending the money, what do you want, a hill side with a bunch of homes similar to those creeping up around Missoula, or a hill side of conifers, banded with fire breaks (ski slopes) every 500 yards? The risk is totally his, not one single dime is coming out of your pocket.

Those ski slopes had little to no snow
>on them all of 05-06 - which was an above average snow year -

Excuse me, I travel the same Hwy 93 that you apparently do, and I saw snow on this North-Eastern protected slope clear through March.

the east facing slopes where Maclay didn't groom were basically brown.

If you read the Bitterroot Resort planning guide, you will note that they plan to create artifical snow on all of these slopes. During my military career, I have had the privilege of skiing in Pennsylvania and in Europe. The majority of the snow that I skied on had sprinklers on the side of the slopes that created snow. The temp that we have in November through March, will certainly sustain as much snow as the Bitterroot Resort wants to make.

The neat PR
>pictures of a winter shangri-la are just that, they are PR pictures.

Those pictures are PR pictures....so what? It's meant to articulate, and culture your imagination so that you can capture some of Tom Maclays dreams and perspective. No one is challenging the obvious.

As Maclay and Jim the PR guy acknowledge, without the public land component,

No Name, one last time, I do not, never have nor never will work for Tom Maclay. I am retired, retired, retired and am solely dedicated to seeing employemnt for more citizens in the Bitterroot. You have vented your opposition to this resort, but have not mentioned one single, positive solution to come up with any employment opportunites to take the place of the jobs that Maclay is proposing.....!

>the resort will have a very hard time competing with other regional resorts
>that have higher elevation terrain.

Where does that open the door for the beginnning skier?...Snowbowl is steep, and Lost Trail is also steep and is at least 10 gallon of gas, round trip, away before you ever pay for a lift ticket or buy a hot dog at lunch with a cup of hot chocolate.

Is Tom Maclay one to build a resort
>that cannot compete? He certainly wants you to believe that he will;

What's the guessing game here? Does he expect to get rich from the timber removed from the ski runs? The stumpage removal will exceed the value of the timber. It's our property, yours and mine, we just have different perspectives on how it should be used. There is a combination of 4.9 Million acres in the Bitterroot and Lolo National Forests plus the Selway Wilderness. 12,000 acres is 1/408th of that total magnitude, doesn't it seem practical that the citizens of the US might get the opportunity to use a pitance of that total amount?

hence the "i'm building it regardless of whether we get public land approval or
>not" blackmail effort.

If those brown areas aren't ski slopes then they certainly are some controversial wheat fields. Don't think a baler will work up there so that eliminates hay?

We'll see. As you consider supporting or not supporting this resort, think about the
>legacy of other mega-resorts in the west, think about whether the BR will
>really create a job that you want to work, think about whether trophy homes
>are a part of why you live here.

Think about the legacy of Big Sky, a Bozeman community smaller than Missoula, a University smaller than Missoula, and 400 jobs, 200 seasonal, and 200 full time, that don't even exist today, plus the 400 season tickets to ski on a "World Class Ski Resort." I totally agree with, "No Name," think about the legacy!
>
>I'm not really sure what to think about Jim the PR guy's Salish comments.

NO Name, I Don't work for the BR Resort!

>That said, if Jim the PR guy really believes that many of us are going
>through the same emotional feelings that the Salish people went through, it
>is only appropriate to ask him whether a mega-resort on Lolo peak is the
>best remedy?

The resort won't be on Lolo Peak and will use the inside of the Carlton Lake Basin and will traverse down below the lip of the lake, to a lift which will take you back to the top of Carlton Ridge to the main lift. You won't even see this ski slope from the valley floor.

I'm guessing that the Salish would have answered with a
>resounding... NO.

I totally agree with "No Names," conclusion, only I would go one step further, they wouldn't want "any," of us here, I am absolutely sure they didn't like, "Change," either.

No Name, follow your dreams, get a real estate license, and become rich...ha...you will soon find out that there are agents out there that are also having a hard time making a buck. All of my comments are based on facts and personal observations that I achieved by going to the resort and seeing their efforts in person. No Name, you can clear up many of your, "half and no-truths," by doing the same! Thank you for your comments.....Jim
>

Response to the "unamed author,' who wrote to the title, "A year-Round
Recreation Destination."

Your article is interesting, but is full of half truths and no-truths. I will respond
honestely, and truthfully to each one of your comments:

>The title of the entry is:
>A Year-Round Recreation Destination
>
>This resort will move Western Montana in the wrong direction. First, it
>will undoubtably cater to and attract wealthy people to the valley which
>will drive up property values beyond what locals can afford (see: summit
>county CO, vail valley CO, sun valley ID; big sky MT for details of this
>well established western trend)

I cannot think of a single financial investment by any firm, corporate industry,
or business that is profitable, that will not drive up the property values of any
property that is contiguous to the property in question. Would you rather like
to think that the business venture should be a flop and drive the property values
down? The very fact that HWY 93 is moving to four lanes makes every square inch
of property on that highway more valuable as it now moves from residential to commerical
property values.

. Second, while the resort provides locals
>the illusion of a better future through "jobs," it will actually create
>dead-end, meaningless service sector employment where locals get to serve
>and clean up after out of town wealth.

Face it "No Name," skiing and golf are sports that are more expensive
than bowling or family cards. But, you have a choice, let these folks than can
afford it, plus the out-of-town citizens, who drive all the way through Missoula
to get to the resort, spend their out-of-town money and return to their out of town
homes, happily thinking about the next time they can repeat the process....

No one has figured out a way to
>avoid this scenario; not Tom Maclay, not Jim the PR guy, not Thomas Power,
>not vail resorts, not intrawest, NO ONE.

Sooo, with your interest, perhaps you can provide the answer? And "No-Name,"
I am not the PR Guy for the Bitterroot Resort, I have no financial affiliation with
the BR Resort in any capacity. I am an interested citizen who has taken the extra
step to depreciate the half-truths and no-truths published by the nay- sayers, from
where ever you are. I see this as legitimate jobs in a community where a job at
Wall Mart is a respectable, position in life and the jobs at the Bitterroot Resort
will be competitive.
>
>Red Dancer is spot on; a mega-resort in the Bitterroot will irretrievably
>change western montana for the worse by pricing locals out of the housing
>market and creating low-paying service sector jobs.
>
NO Name, drive South down HWY 93, out of Missoula look left,look right, every quarter
mile on either side is a brand new home being built, land has increased in value
by 25% over the past four years....what has this got to do with a resort that won't
even be opened for another two years?

>Like Red Dancer, I also lived in the Vail Valley. Here is what it is like
>... After working up to 3 service sector jobs at a time for 3 years and
>renting a loft in a two bedroom apartment for what most people pay on a
>mortgage, I left Vail as a net-economic loss. There was never anyway that I
>was going to be able to buy a home or settle down working in the service
>industry.

No Name, I am not trying to be disrespectful, but education and experience in a
specific field are you only paths to success. Life is tough all over the US, especially
if you are saddled with a lack of the two previously mentioned areas. Qualified
employees who are savvy in the area of machine maintenance, ski-lift management,
golf course management, plus the normal commercial experience found in a ski resort
village area will be well rewarded for their time and effort.

The only people who made enough money to actually consider
>settling down in Vail were real estate owners, developers, and agents.

I sincerely doubt that, you have identified only three areas and have completely
ignored the infra-structure that supports a community. With you moxee of who makes
the money, get a real-estate license and jump into the puddle.

It is not a coincindence that Tom Maclay wears at least two of these hats - the
>bigger the resort the more he has to gain, period.

You failed to point out the biggest no-truth, of this entire conversation. It's
Tom Maclays dime that is paying for this entire enterprise. Does he have a financial
backer, I can't imagine that he doesn't. The last time you had a dream
and wanted to move out of that attic appartment in
Vail, did you go to a bank and get some financial backing and wind up with a mortgage.
Tom Maclay has 2900+ acres that he is developing without any tax payers money involved.


>
>Contrary to what Jim the PR guy wants you to believe, this is not just about
>whether the resort will be open to the public or not.

Not true, as I said before, I have no financial affiliation with the Bitterroot
Resort in any capacity, and my only perk is a "Bitterroot Resort Baseball Cap."

It is about whether
>we decide to fundamentally change the quality of life for people who have
>chosen to live in western MT, despite the lower wages, in order to enjoy a
>life free of mega-resorts, Bogner ski suits and over-priced schwag.

No Name, it's going to happen, I have no control over it happening, you have
no control in whether it happens, Tom Maclay is in control of his destiny and the
public is in control of making their comments and feelings known to the USFS...we
both have one vote...so go vote "No Name."
>
>First of all, it is not clear that the BR can be a legitimate ski resort
>without the public land component.

It's Tom Maclay's investment, he's spending the money, what do you want,
a hill side with a bunch of homes similar to those creeping up around Missoula,
or a hill side of conifers, banded with fire breaks (ski slopes) every 500 yards?
The risk is totally his, not one single dime is coming out of your pocket.

Those ski slopes had little to no snow
>on them all of 05-06 - which was an above average snow year -

Excuse me, I travel the same Hwy 93 that you apparently do, and I saw snow on this
North-Eastern protected slope clear through March.

the east facing slopes where Maclay didn't groom were basically brown.

If you read the Bitterroot Resort planning guide, you will note that they plan to
create artifical snow on all of these slopes. During my military career, I have
had the privilege of skiing in Pennsylvania and in Europe. The majority of the
snow that I skied on had sprinklers on the side of the slopes that created snow.
The temp that we have in November through March, will certainly sustain as much
snow as the Bitterroot Resort wants to make.

The neat PR
>pictures of a winter shangri-la are just that, they are PR pictures.

Those pictures are PR pictures....so what? It's meant to articulate, and culture
your imagination so that you can capture some of Tom Maclays dreams and perspective.
No one is challenging the obvious.

As Maclay and Jim the PR guy acknowledge, without the public land component,

No Name, one last time, I do not, never have nor never will work for Tom Maclay.
I am retired, retired, retired and am solely dedicated to seeing employemnt for
more citizens in the Bitterroot. You have vented your opposition to this resort,
but have not mentioned one single, positive solution to come up with any employment
opportunites to take the place of the jobs that Maclay is proposing.....!

>the resort will have a very hard time competing with other regional resorts
>that have higher elevation terrain.

Where does that open the door for the beginnning skier?...Snowbowl is steep, and
Lost Trail is also steep and is at least 10 gallon of gas, round trip, away before
you ever pay for a lift ticket or buy a hot dog at lunch with a cup of hot chocolate.

Is Tom Maclay one to build a resort
>that cannot compete? He certainly wants you to believe that he will;

What's the guessing game here? Does he expect to get rich from the timber removed
from the ski runs? The stumpage removal will exceed the value of the timber. It's
our property, yours and mine, we just have different perspectives on how it should
be used. There is a combination of 4.9 Million acres in the Bitterroot and Lolo
National Forests plus the Selway Wilderness. 12,000 acres is 1/408th of that total
magnitude, doesn't it seem practical that the citizens of the US might get the
opportunity to use a pitance of that total amount?

hence the "i'm building it regardless of whether we get public land approval
or
>not" blackmail effort.

If those brown areas aren't ski slopes then they certainly are some controversial
wheat fields. Don't think a baler will work up there so that eliminates hay?

We'll see. As you consider supporting or not supporting this resort, think
about the
>legacy of other mega-resorts in the west, think about whether the BR will
>really create a job that you want to work, think about whether trophy homes
>are a part of why you live here.

Think about the legacy of Big Sky, a Bozeman community smaller than Missoula, a
University smaller than Missoula, and 400 jobs, 200 seasonal, and 200 full time,
that don't even exist today, plus the 400 season tickets to ski on a "World
Class Ski Resort." I totally agree with, "No Name," think about
the legacy!
>
>I'm not really sure what to think about Jim the PR guy's Salish comments.

NO Name, I Don't work for the BR Resort!

>That said, if Jim the PR guy really believes that many of us are going
>through the same emotional feelings that the Salish people went through, it
>is only appropriate to ask him whether a mega-resort on Lolo peak is the
>best remedy?

The resort won't be on Lolo Peak and will use the inside of the Carlton Lake
Basin and will traverse down below the lip of the lake, to a lift which will take
you back to the top of Carlton Ridge to the main lift. You won't even see this
ski slope from the valley floor.

I'm guessing that the Salish would have answered with a
>resounding... NO.

I totally agree with "No Names," conclusion, only I would go one step
further, they wouldn't want "any," of us here, I am absolutely sure
they didn't like, "Change," either.

No Name, follow your dreams, get a real estate license, and become rich...ha...you
will soon find out that there are agents out there that are also having a hard time
making a buck. All of my comments are based on facts and personal observations
that I achieved by going to the resort and seeing their efforts in person. No Name,
you can clear up many of your, "half and no-truths," by doing the same!
Thank you for your comments.....Jim
>