Sad how humans treats animals. This man should go to jail as he's a criminal.

How are hunters criminals Celso? That was truly a stupid statement.

Absolutly amazing...what a trophy. Congrats!

Celso must not be from around here.

I could never shoot such a critter unless we were hungry, but I've got nothing against those who do. Most wild critters die in a way that's significantly more "cruel" than being dispatched by a well-placed bullet, I'm thinkin'.

Celso - check your facts. It is not against the law to kill animals within prescribed seasons. There is nothing criminal about this. Personally, however... that bull is going to taste like leather. i would rather have a nice fat cow elk any day!

The NRA & all the morons that kill our animals will soon be gone. Christ placed the animals on Earth with "Equal Right" to exist. But Man, the failure thinks he is better.
Christ will soon give "ALL" the Earth back to the animals for Man is not worthy - he is disgusting.

Christ ate animals

This Elk wasn't hunted ...it was BOUGHT. There's a whole side to this story that you likely won't see in the glossy slick hunting magazines or the cable channel ego-stroking outsoor shows.

But at least Outdoor Life had enough integrity to broach the entirety of the Hunt-Kill process that brought down this magnificent bull. Here's a link to a very tame rendering of the Bigger Picture I allude to :

http://www.outdoorlife.com/article/Hunting/Spider-Bull-world-record-elk-part-2

For my part, There is no shining example of premier trophy hunting, Big Game management , or real conservation at work here. If so , this bull would've been placed off limits to die a a natural death and thereby pass on his genes as often as possible according to the Higher Rules.

The " hunter" paid $ 165,000 for the special Governor's license, and had 13 spotters with radios to help him find this exact animal ( sorta sound like those infamous Idaho Rabbit Roundups , doesn't it...an ever tightening circle of ground beaters coralling rabbits into a kill zone). The whole thing was "Put and Take" hunting on steroids , but in principle more like stocked trout ponds for kids or handicappers than actual wildlands pursuit hunting , mano-a-mano . The Spider Bull was not hunted. He was assassinated.

I live on the edge of Yellowstone Park in northwest Wyoming , where the Monarchial Elk used to migrate out with the great herds to winter on traditional forest lands and even open scrub further east. In the 1950's we saw many fine Royal Bulls and a few Monarchs amid many thousands of range Elk. The middlin' bulls of thhose days ---in my own lifetime---would be magnificent tophy bulls his day and age . Today , you percieve only the shadows and echoes of that wildlife wonderment and natural selection , lucky if you see a few hundred Elk at best and usually only spikes or 4 points. ( This decline came well before Wolves were reintroduced, and I for one totally discount any notion that Wolves are diminishing the genetics and stature of Big Game herds. If anything, they are improving the herds in quality, bit not necessarily quantity, if you are honest enough to accept that distinction. More Elk does not automatically mean Better Elk . ).

In the extraordinary " Journal of a Trapper" , the excerpts of the daily diary kept by mountain man and fur trapper Osborne Russell of his life in the Rockies in the 1830's and early 1840's, there is a description of a bull elk killed for camp meat that had 14 thines on one antler, 12 on the other, and seven inches of fat on its rump. Russell did not exaggerate his accounts , like other montain men may have embellished their tales. That animal must've weighed over 1600 pounds and stood over six feet high at the shoulder. He also tells of sitting in the southern Absaroka Mountains of Wyoming somewhere in the Shoshone Plateau region between Dubois and Cody , and seeing over 1500 Big Horn mountain sheep on the slopes above, in the era before market hunting , unbridled trophy hunting, and the pillaging of the mountain grass by domestic sheepmen trailing herds up from Utah who brought diseases that all but destroyed wild sheep populations.

Where are the real Big Game now ?
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p.s the next time one of these fine Elk is assassinated, would someone please take a lot of DNA samples while the carcass is still warm and put them on cryo. We'll need them one of these days, probably also in my lifetime, for the restorative cloning , after the Great White Big Moneyed "Hunters" have finished marauding the mountains to feed their monstrous egos .

Thank you Dennis for donating $170,000 to wildlife management.

Dewey,

I'm curious, what do you attribute the decline in the yellowstone herd to? Bears, hunters, genetics?

Nature hunts the old, lame, slow and sick. And thus strengthens the herd's gene pool.

Hunters hunt the biggest and best.
Taking the best genes out of the gene pool.

Hunters are also the result of weakened gene pools.
They cannot think beyond their selfish needs to place the biggest on their wall.

You asked about the reasons for the decline in the Yellowstone herd numbers ( since the 1950's) . The primary decline of migratory elk numbers in the upper northwest Wyoming herds was , as always, due to a matrices of things. But the biggie was the fact the Elk numbers were very very overpopulated to begin with , to the point of destroying the northern range of Yellowstone. Simply put, the Elk themselves were their own worst enemy. But you really can't blame them , because we humans had all but eliminated the primary predators that kept Elk and other ungulates in check since 1930 . By that I mean Wolves, but also Griz and Cougar. By 1960 , there were approximately double the number of Elk on the summer and winter ranges that should have been there. The carrying capacity of the land due to all factors was exceeded. Elk management, never in control, was suddenly out of control in a big way. At that same time, ranchers began grabbing the good winter forage for themselves ---just go look at former Ford Motors president John Bugas's place in Sunlight Basin with the miles long ten foot high Elk Fence around it. And some pretty severe overgrazing on the permits and allotments of the crucial winter range ( Two Dot Ranch , Trail Creek Ranch , among others) Then came the yearround access from the " improved" road between Cody and Cooke City MT that allowed winter access where there previously had been so little. Then came subdivisions.

Believe it or not, the resident local Elk numbers in the Cody herd, Clarks Fork herds, Sunlight herds et al are STILL over objective for total population numbers , but are not healthy in terms of the herd's spread. The hunting in Sunlight-Crandall is negatively impacting both the resident and migratory herds by taking the wrong kind of Elk ( bulls instead of cows and calves) in the wrong places at the wrong time of year. The Elk ranges north and west of Cody are a textbook example of precisely why we need Wolves to do the real big game management , while simultaneously adjusting ( decreasing) the human takes. You can imagine how popular that prescription is hereabouts.

I ask folks to recall the infamous "Gardiner Firing Line " of the early 1960's when hundreds or even thousands of Elk were rifle killed inside Yellowstone Park by professional shooters on the northern ranges near Gardiner , Mammoth , etc. It was either that or let the Elk starve. The end result was the same, the Elk were already half dead from starvation ( and winters were much more intense then than now). The graphic nature of the mass killing of Elk in Yellowstone and bulldozing mountains of carcasses into mass graves created a huge public outcry. Plan B included reintroduction of Wolves, which contrary to loca folklore did NOT begin with Bruce Babbit and the Clinton administration , but rather was initiated almost as soon as the ink had dried on the Endgangered Species Act in 1973 , in the Nixon term , fifteen years before Clinton took office. Bringing back Wolves and stabilizing Grizzly numbers were the best way to control runaway Elk numbers and restore diversity and genetic health to the herds.
I'm sorry , but human Big Game management by sport hunting is neither effective nor desireable in these cases. Subsistence meat hunting is at best a partial solution going in the right direction . But trophy headhunting goes exactly in the wrong direction.

In some areas of the west ( my backyard) we truely need fewer human hunters and more Grizzly and Wolves. This would be to every one's benefit. For the record, I do not presently hunt ( except with a Nikon camera) , and I last guided elk adn sheep hunters in 1989 when I finally reached the Point Of Disgust with commercial hunting. Outfitting and guiding have become a liability to the Absaroka Mountains, not a beneficial use IMHO, and the outfitting industry is bereft with corruption and outlaws for the most part. It is long past the point where honesty and integrity in hunting was paramount, and present day outfitters and guides are under such pressure to produce kills that they break laws and cannot or will not police themselves. I feel very fortunate that in my youth I was able to associate myself with honorable decent men who worked the mountains with great character and a strong sense of why they were there in the first place. But even then they were a dying breed who already had their own lamentations of what their beloved vocation had become.

( Enough for now. I don't feel like writing a book today. I haven't even touched on some other strongpoints, in the interests of space available and attention deficit)

The Bottom Line is I consider the political licensing and military campaign-style hunt for the Utah " Spider Bull" to be symptomatic of the problem . You mileage may vary , but it would have been better if someone had paid that guy $ 200,000 to NOT shoot the Spider Bull. How would that work ?

Thanks, Dewey. Said very well. I do not have a problem with hunting for food, if that is how you choose to eat. I do have a problem with hunting culture and trophy hunting. It is stupid to hunt mature, healthy adults (it is a shame these are referred to as Trophies) since this depletes the gene pool of the most successful traits in the population. It is equally a shame the kill shot photos that are taken after the animal is killed. This shows utter disrespect to life and the spirit that was taken from animal. It used to be that deep reverence and honor was considered for the animal. The act of the hunt was also sacred. We need hunting policy that really serves conservation and is not an arm of hunting culture.

Pretty impressive animal. As for the people decrying the fact it was killed, are you vegan or something? When was the last time you had a hamburger? Last time I checked Homosapiens are omnivore, eating both meat and plants unless they impose restrictions on themselves for whatever personal reasons. I assume because of this fact, that most hunters utilize the meat. I think hunting it yourself is a heck of a lot more humane than the way they treat cattle at slaughter houses. Not to mention, the animal was free to roam and wasn't confined to a small pen for it's entire life. I hunt because then I know where my meat came from and that it wasn't improperly handled and isn't infected with mad cow or something.

I don't particularly care for hunting for the sake of a trophy only. Of course, one also must realize that this animal must be pretty old for it to have gotten so big. It's not like he was shooting yearlings. And on that note, I think that's one of the biggest problems, is people shooting yearling bucks for no reason. It happens all the time. Or they shoot small bucks with only a few points. Proper population control should begin with culling older does or spikes in the case of whitetails, but a lot of people don't pay any attention to that. Or they're irresponsible. Or they just don't know anything about what they're doing.

And another thing. Most of the worst mismanaged hunting was done in the 19th century. We've come a long way since then. So, before you go on about how terrible hunters are, wildlife would be even worse off without them. In 1937 hunters, yes that's right, hunters, lobbied congress and successfully passed the Pittman-Robertson Act. It excised an 11% tax on all ammunition and firearms that go directly to the conservation of wildlife. Hunters have contributed 3 BILLION dollars to conservation efforts in the last 15 years by buying guns and ammo. Why did they do this? Because many populations of animals were on the brink of being endangered and were dwindling in the 1930s. This act is directly related to the rebuilding of animal populations such as the Whitetail Deer and the American Elk in North America.

http://www.fws.gov/southeast/federalaid/pittmanrobertson.html

Perhaps before you speak of things you know nothing about, you should do some research first. Did you know that Denver has a horrible problem with coyotes because the deer population is out of control. It's so bad, my friend who lives there said you can't even leave your dog outside as people have had their pets go missing. Too many deer attract too many coyotes who find said deer quite delicious. Coyotes eat dogs, cats, and maybe even small children if they're available. I for one don't want coyotes roaming my back yard, thanks.

Meanwhile, the venison burger I had for dinner was quite tasty. And I don't have to worry about whether it was tainted with BSE or e-Coli or something.

You would think that in this day and age of everyone yelling out that we all just need to get along that dosent just mean to get along with other races but it means that we as the human race need to respect each other EVEN if we dont belive in the same things. Sooooo... I am glad that the gentleman got to go hunting and that he fulfilled a dream of his... That if you choose to not hunt that I hope that you will get to fulfill a dream of yours. Its my feeling that if you dont want the Government tag to be filled than do something about it by buying it yoursef and dont fill the tag. remember that true beauty is not on the outside but is how we treat each other...........

That elk was a work of art made by God for all mankind to enjoy You and your backward ignorant losers should use your cowardly weapons to kill each other. Fight that elk one on one like a man and we can stuff your brainless head and stick it on a wall as a representative of the neanderthal man. Either way you will rot in hell.

Those of you who think that wolves kill the sick and weak need to spend more time watching wolves and elk interact with your own eyes. These bleeding heart TV programs are filling your head with propaganda. A pack of wolves can, and do kill any ungulate they wish. Do not be a fool and think they eat everything they kill. You people, who know everything, keep in mind evolution, that little saying about survival of the fittest. Until elk learn to shoot back they will be killed by the thousands every year. I know you Christ lovers and extreme greenies drive cars that pollute air, utilize leather products, and synthetic materials among many other atrocities you preach against. Go raise hell where it is going to do some good. Gods little creatures taste good!

To all the vegans hunting is a passion/sport. It is a way of managing the wildlife, and it is a major adrenaline rush. If you don't like other people's way of living, mind you own business. You're the one who chooses to eat things such as rabbit food instead of a big juicy steak. Mmmm...I really feel sorry for you!!!!!

Three facts of life:
1. Men like to shoot things
2. Men believe that bigger is better
3. Men's egos are irrevocably tied to the above

That is why there will always be wars and beautiful creatures like these will end up as wall art.

All of you with opinions about hunting elk should give it a try before judging others. I shoot an elk a year here in Wyoming for family food. Usually I shoot a cow, but that is based more on opportunity than anything. I don't necessarily pull down the biggest and strongest, I always quip that I'm just looking for a dumb one standing out in the open for a bit too long. I hunt on foot, hike thousands of vertical feet, bust my tail hauling quarters off the mountain and my family enjoys healthy organic meat year round. Elk that grow old and big are tough to hunt but rest assured that the Spider Bull bred many cows before he was shot.

Jeff: I have nothing at all against subsistence Elk hunting, or any game and fowl hunting done for food as much (or more ) as sport. I hope you weren't referring to me in your comment, since I spent 16 years working in outfitter elk hunting camps and twenty years in low country Deer-Antelope hunting trade.

What I do not condone is the manner in which the Utah bull was taken , the entire process , the total subversion of sportsmanlike fair pursuit and free range hunting as a sellout to For Profit Trophy bloodlust. It goes well outside the boundaries of real sportsmanship, and is NOT conservation. In fact , it is the polar opposite of both. Sorry.

I have a question I would ask of the Boone and Crockett officials scorers ... we have a couple of them here in Cody WY and some national board members as well , and B & C almost moved their headquarters here a few years ago, but lost out to Missoula . Or perhaps any Utah wildliffe official:

Did anyone try to determine the Age of this big bull elk by looking at the molars ? I viewed the video of this same Spider Bull in velvet at Mossback outfitting website, where it can be seen grazing and romping with other bulls. I noticed that this big Spider Bull's size and body mass does not appear to be any larger than the 4-points and the other bull that appears. I'm concluding that the Spider Bull was probably in his prime or just past it, and had a few more years of breeding opportunity left in him. If B & C , Utah wildlife agents, the outfitter or hunter himself would be so kind to produce their professional opinion on the estimated age of the Spider Bull at the time it was taken , it would be useful information.

I am of the very strong opinion that bull Elk of this stature should not be taken at all this day and age , in the interests of herd strength and long bloodline genetics. That's called "Conservation". It's a much different animal than "Great White Hunter's Ego ".

Dewey,

I respect your opinion greatly on this matter.

I myself am an avid outdoorsman and conservationist besides being a Utah resident born and raised. I have hunted since I was old enough to trudge up and down the Wasatch mountains with my father.

It was more than a way of life, it was an addiction. The rockies in the fall do something to a person. It gets into your blood and your soul and never lets go...

I have harvested a few animals in my hunting career. None of which would be considered trophy material. I harvested them with my family doing it the old fashioned way. We scouted an area, figured out the lay of the land as well as what the animals routines were of bedding down, feeding and watering. Then we devised a plan and carried it out on opening morning. Those mornings were so exciting! I can still feel my heart pound walking up the trail just before dawn and hearing my dad whisper, 'I think they are just up ahead of us...I can hear them moving there above us...'

Anyway, I cant help but feel 'exploited' by this whole 'spyder elk' nonsense. These 'guides' have taken something that is an honor and a duty and turned it into a big business. I would venture to bet that 90% of Doyle Moss's animals are harvested by out of state hunters. That's a shame to the Utah sportsmen and women. They are the ones who put in the time to improve the habitat and the ones whose precious dollars are going to improve the DWR and it's programs.

I know Mr. Moss uses questionable 'tactics' in hunting these animals and have heard he is downright violent with folks.

I feel sad that when my son grows up I will have to deal with the arrogant folks out there who are only looking to put a head on a wall and don't care about managing the game or don't give a hoot about the love of just being out there in the mountains and enjoying god's great earth.

I fully support hunting and conservationists but I have to agree with your points on 'Trophy hunting' and where this is headed. I only hope that we can respect these beautiful animals and care enough to ensure their management for future generations to enjoy and not just to hang em up on our walls for us to lust after...

I am a hunter.
This argument is elementary and redundant. You cannot see the core problem with this situation because you are AMERICAN, and therefore blind to subtle rationalizations. Both perspectives offered above are flawed.The world watches and shakes its head. When will you ever learn.

Realist,I am curious of how much you know about wildlife, specifically herd animals. I ask this because unless you understand herd animals evolved with families and extended families then you are just another of many with different attitudes that have little relevance to the very animals need of this to maintain herd and related ecological sustainability.

Plus, unless you understand humans come from the same basic extended family beginnings then attitudes of superiority over animals will be inherent in your thoughts. The supposed philosophical prejudices of either "side" becomes mute whenever Aryian race attitudes of man over beast prevails.

I would have to add to these "lay" discussioners to say I know of no state or federal wildlife divisions or "experts" who understand the need for herd animals to mantain family infrastructure as essential for healthy populations of these species. Thus, this mans canned hunt of the "trophy bull" is no different than purists who shoot "lowly" cows.

Proof of all this almost surreal expert parenting is shown in states regulations ....where singular licenses for singular hunters shooting whatever animal falls into the category of that singular animal category carries the day. Herd animals are lumped into "population densities", and thus hunting seasons are set based on numbers of individuals, not essential family and infrastructure qualifications.

There has been no sustainable group hunting of herd animals since hunter - gatherers left the scene on this continent 200 years ago. Yes, there was always singular hunting of singular animals such as elk, but the majority of killing was in surrounds, jumps and corrals that held the animals. Thus, they killed entire family groups. It was much more sustainable because this meant other extended families (up to 300 head per family before territories come into play) maintained essential herd roles and thus efficiency.

It is kind of like having three towns. Is it better to wreck havoc on all three or totally take out one town and have the other two, and its complete infrastructure, left intact to absorb the land and resources of the third? The anwser is obvious.

All hunting of herd animals today follows the example of the first scenario. Thus, one gets all these "sporting" and "puritan" comments and arguments back and forth. "Forgive them for what they not know". What do you know, Realist, I must ask?

the freedom of speech is just that the freedom to speak out loudly for or against what you believe in i may not have all of the advanced education that some of you people do but what i do know is that is a magnifacent bull elk and would love to have killed it myself congradulations to denny this man chose to spend the money hes has earned and saved over the years to do with it what he wanted and that is to kill the biggest bull ever taken on public land durring a seeason not in a high fence situation the people that are hating on him are jeallous or are anti hunters leave the man alone he doesnt get on you for driving a gass guzzler or rag on you for what you spend your money on congadulations once again denny on a truly wonderful animal

i dont want to ruffle your feathers dewey but some of the things you are talking about contradict some of the statements you have made in the past you need to take a stand and stick to it thank you

so lets see some more big bulls......anyone else get anything?

there was a monster also killed in washington this year that will gross 440+ it was an auction tag as well so was that an assasanation to i congradulate anyone killing giant bulls cows or raghorns i am envious not jealous

Who needs the likes of PETA when you have "fellow" hunters like these? Mercanary-gang-style outfitting officially sanctioned by UTDWR and Boone & Crockett will soon drive the sport to extinction. As you can see here this "shoot" (in no way a fair hunt, it's party-hunting; no more than a high paid game-drive) is indefensible by those who love hunting--- to those who hate it, or are otherwise fence-sitting. You can get away with ethics violations with any other critter, but when it comes to a world record, the kill has to be beyond reproach. I'm sure the MOSS gang spent plenty of time figuring out how to do business legally--- but they and the 'shooter' spent precious little considering if it was RIGHT.

I'd like to hear about the other hunters in the unit who may have been kept from the area this bull was in by all those spotters.

well stan it was killed on PUBLIC land and the last time i checked PUBLIC land meant that it is open to the PUBLIC i dont know about you but if i was hunting there and some guy that was there and not hunting but just spotting i would just go on right by him and look for a bull to kill one person spotting and not hhunting unting is not going to keep me from going hunting in one paticular area sorry if thats wrong but if he is not hunting sorry dude

Jeremy,

I patrolled "public lands" (Wilderness) along the SE corner of Yellowstone for over a quarter century. Very few private hunters were allowed to hunt in peace by the outfitters. In fact the harassment was so intense very few private parties came back for a second year. Harassment came in the form of an outfitter, through his wrangler, packer or whomever notifying a bunch of govt agencies of supposed wrong doing by this private party. For example, leaving food on the ground (bear country ya know) or more common yet, that it was a scab outfitter.

Thus, it was inevitable a private party would end up with around 5 law dogs stopping by in a period of 3-4 days...all asking prying questions the hunters couldn't figure out what they were trying to find out. The agencies coming in were the Forest Service, Wyoming G&F;, Wyoming outfitter deputy dog (appointed by the governor...nice big badge I might add), US F&W;agents and depending on the sucker, a National Park Ranger.

All the hunters wanted to do was have some peace and quiet and to get away from it all. If the govt. swarm didn't do the job then overt tactics would commence. This meant running horses through the camp, putting gut piles and carcasses in the woods directly behind the camp (bear attractant) and cutting horses loose when hunters tied them up to walk a ridge or something. It wouldn't be over 3 days before all of a private parties horses would be back at the trail head 32 miles away.

Yes, these unshaven boys could be stubborn like you, Jeremy, but I must tell you, you...and they ....would be out of your league...even if you had been a guide for an outfitter in the past. Some parties even took turns leaving a guy watching horses, or strung a rope about chest high on a rider to knock the raiders of the camp off at night. They were not be be run off but in the end they were. Too many binoculars in those outfitter camps and on the hunt. It doesn't take many times of having a bull spooked off a stalk before you give up. The only ones who stayed more than two years were those that made a pact with the devil, the outfitter, whose turf they camped on. This meant the private guys were to hunt the competing outfitter ground (public land, but not really, dude) .... and to scare elk back to the treatied outfitter.

I have a feeling Stan must know a bit about these tactics the way he asked the question. Yes, I'd say there was quite a bit of pressure to isolate this bull for the desired hunter. Whether the client was aware of it I do not know.

Maybe this has been brought up before, but what are the chances this bull was a plant from a private game farm? All it would have taken is locating an area without a lot of elk competion, some cows to go with him from that farm and maybe a younger bull to follow the big daddy around. Drop them off in the spring, put out some grain once in awhile, have some 'sightings" while in velvet and then pop him. Don't know if it happened in this case but the motive for promoting hunts by any outfitter in the area would mean a lot of bookings coming the next year. Maybe some tooth samples would be in order...but of course if it was a Governors hunt the negative press upon discovery of such a plot would dampen a lot of money coming into G&F;coffers.

bob,

i think you might have missunderstood me here and thank you for your response i take everything that people say to me to heart but i was just simply say that mossback guides are very well known bunch of indaviduals whos faces are all over every big bull hunting videos and if they are there its cause there are big bulls there and sure they probably did have a circle around were the bull was probably at but for the person to say that it was pushed to the hunter without any proof is just slander whe the video comes out and the bull is hauling ass across the hillside and bullets flying all over then ya it will be a bit unnerveing but until then cant we just congradulate the man on killing a truly giant bull and i think you make a good point once in for all do dna on the thing and then we can really knoe the truth the truth is he has 140 inches of abnormal points as a typical 6x6 he only scores 340 hardly a true giant but it grew 140 inches of trash and people are saying oh gosh its a non typical it has to be farm raised how about the poor kid in colorado who killed a 300+ IN MULE DEER now it has a lot of trash now if it were bull elk people would say oh its non typical must be farm raised i am not trying to ruffle anyones feathers but until we can discredit alot of these things be happy for these people i know what your saying about what you you saw in yellowstone but as for doyle he is not going to be confrontational in some of those situation thank you for your input on these things i like to hear about what people say

piece-o-shit that animals has been around for how many years? and some dumb old hill-billy kills it for his trophy room?!? sad sad sad state of reality we're living in:(

I've been hunting for most of twenty years. I have never paid to have a guide HELP bag my animals. The reason is because I don't have the money to pay for the time and effort that the guide has put in to learn the country and find these trophy animals. For anyone that has never gone out and tried to find a trophy animal to shoot or even take a picture of (during open hunting season) has no idea how difficult it is. A guide spends all year pretty much every day watching learning what these animals are doing that is why people pay them to help bag a trophy. The average person does not have time to find a trophy animal in the alotted season given. And the comment about shooting the trophy animals instead of the small ones, how do you think the trophy started? Did it just pop out and bam its a trophy, no. It grew and was protected by law not to be havested as a small or non trophy animal. All of its offspring are still in the process of becoming trophies. In my state they passed a law about five years ago on deer, its a three point or better antler to be legal to havest and that was because there were not any bucks growing to trophy sizes. Since that law was passed I have seen many more trophy or near trophy animals in the last couple seasons. That is because the animals are allowed to grow to a mature size. On top of that it also gives them time to become alot wizer. So the people saying shoot the small and not the big daddy are all out of wack. Every animal is small at some point. I am againt the trophy hunters that do not utilize the meat of the trophy animal they shot, which is againt the law. I myself don't need the meat of an animal to feed me or my family but i would shoot a trophy animal over a non-trophy any day. I hunt because I love being outdoors and the challenge of even seeing an animal legal to shoot is a feat in itself. For anyone that has not gone out and just tried to find a non-trophy animal to shoot or take a picture of in a open season has no clue on how hard it is. I put miles on my feet and hours behing binoculars and yet in twenty years have only been fortunate enough to get three actuall trophy animals, but i consider every animal I have taken a trophy cause I put in the time and effort to find it and out smart these beautiful creatures. If you people that think us hunters are hurting the population of any animal then you are lacking knowledge in the matter. Like one of the other comments before mine, we sportsmen are the only ones that are helping. You all sit there and talk we are the ones that buy licenses and raffles tags which is where the money for all the governments officials paychecks and the money for all the wildlife managment, studies, parks river cleanup ect. comes from. So untill all you talkers start dishing out the millions of dollars it take to manage all are wildlife areas then i suggest putting a hoof in it.

nez pearce,

You said it all when you stated you had only been able to get three trophy deer in 20 years. What kind of state management is that when in a natural system there would have been at least ten percent of the population as "trophy animals". I saw numbers of elk go down tremendously in the migratory herds of elk leaving Yellowstone. In the 70's one could count on one big mature 6x6 or 7 pointer with 8-10 cows durin the rut. Then there were 6 or 7 5x6'ers and 6x6'ers ringing each of these breeding groups.

One could not even get a good nights sleep in the cabin because the meadows around this cabin were full of loudly bugling deep throated bulls.

Today it is a rag horn or spike that does most all the breeding and there are 25-30 cows with one of these "guys". Nothing rings the sides anymore. Yes, G&F;management has really been on top of it in a historical area, the Thorofare, known as the prime elk hunting spot in the country.

you, Nez pearce do not know what good hunting is and ever will. Only those who have lots of land and do very little hunting on it will ever experience all the wonder of animals surrounding you with behaviors typical of healthy species. The pheasants my brothers hunt once a year on the family farm is a lot different hunting than what I once had. Its is pure joy to see all those roosters getting up. There is no more swinging from hen to hen looking for that one rooster still not killed.

My brothers and I were noted as the "great White hunters" in our high school year books. We all went on to get F&W;degrees. I spent 30 years hunting the hunters in Yellowstone's boundary areas. I was very good at it ,having caught more poachers than all the rangers combined for my time period as well as the 40 recorded years of poachers caught in Yellowstone. No big game guide out there has the understanding of herd animals as I do. It is a fact not a boast. Understanding the animal is how one catches poachers.

I have 400 social order buffalo on 1000 acres and there is no thought of how many bulls I should have on hand to breed so many cows (like state G&F;calculates to determine bag quotas). I have bull groups of the different age groups just like is talked about in the early accounts. It is what should be as a given in every herd animal species. Without this there is no sustainability of species. Therefore NO state G&F;in the country has GOOD management. That includes your state. It may be a bit better than the holocaust it was before but that is IT.

As for hunting prowness there is NO prowess when modern equipment is involved. Look at the numbers of big bulls around and you will realize it is so. the states set the HARVEST, yes it is termed a harvest, and those limitations make for the age components available to hunt. The bullet crowd does a good job killing ALL within this restriction.

A 15 year old kid bow hunted the number one whitetail in this country 30 miles from me for gosh sakes.

The illusion of hunter skill is all it is. You are comparing yourself to city slickers from Wall street....and elevating those guides to supreme only because you have to rate yourself as high as you can. Try observing a hunter - gatherer indigenous and then find yourself with some relative measurements.

I caught a lot of supposedly savvy camp bosses in my day. I must say the rating they achieved....and all those Mossback guides mentioned above.... was from a view of young buck wanna be guides and dudes that had read too many Outdoor Lifes.

One catches the star struck ones and then when they get caught they whimper back and bawl to their hero saying, "I thought you said we could get away with it" The "hero' then goes out to prove poaching can be done. when the jig was up ALL but one hung their heads and cried. That is the scenario and it isn't the one you as a hunter wants to hear. And I do not "pick" on you personally, just the composite. I'm sorry the world is not like I thought it was as the Fur Fish & Game reading kid I was 45 years ago. We, as a composite, males that evolution made us to hunt...it is in our blood....can only hope and work to make small islands of resource what it was before Whiteman. Without it we have no perspective to guide ourselves. Therefore places where hunting should not happen (Yellowstone) and all those anti hunting advocates need to be maintained. Enough for now.

I really commend all the truely intelligent game management talk. I think that major changes need to take place in the way that our game is managed. One thought i have had is a real time harvest report, in which a certain number of bulls/buck/doe/ or cows are allowed to be harvested, when the quota is met the hunt is closed. These hunts would also be subject to paticular restrictions like "only 4-5 pt bulls if the unit had an excess of them, or "only 3, 6+ pt bull are to be harvested. this however requires i higher level of communication than we currently have.
reguardless, major changes are needed.
I too think that a hunt that utilizes a dozen guides is totally rediculise. I would certainly not have pasted up a shot at this bull, but having someone show me where he was verses finding him myself changes the way i feel about the accomplishment. For years i was purely a meat hunter, however this year i spent alot of time hunting and was able to harvest a nice buck, while stocking him i felt great about it. After killing him, i felt bad. i knew that i had taken him out of the gene pool in the prime of his life, and for this i felt a shamed. He could have one day been a trophy. (that is if some other hunter didnt take him first) and there lays the problem. the odds of him ever becoming a trophy we slim to none given the number of hunter.

If i had to pay twice as much for an elk tag so that the F&G;had the people and resources to manage the animals on a herd by herd-family group level, i would do it in a heart beat.

there are too many fat dick heads on Atv's with 12x scopes out there taking to many of the prime breeder.

I know that if we were all shooting spider bulls we wouldnt be chatting on this forum.

as for the those Jesus freaks and anti hunters, i think that they may have forgotten their early ancestors(2,000,000 bc-30,000bc) that killed anything and everything they could to survive. If they hadnt been so brutal, then you wouldnt be here today to ride your morel high horse.

Ryan
Boise, ID

as a hunter and JESUS FREAK,in the new testament GOD says all creatures are good to eat, most of the JESUS FREAKS I know are hunters!!!! So he shot an elk, so what,if what has been told about the hunt is true I don't think it was ethical or fair chase(radios used to actively hunt the bull is not fair chase),but as long as no laws were broken I guess congratulations are in order!!(the use of radios for hunting is illegal here in British Columbia) As for the world #2 bull,it wasn't frozen in the lake, it was late aug. or early sept. , Pretty girls in bikinis were swimming in the lake still, and from our ladies hockey team you know our girls are tough but not that tough!!!

Bottom lines:

Money corrupts. You can't buy it all, even though folks try.
Boone & Crockett need to redefine what "fair chase" means...It shouldn't allow for 20 guides with radios, slashing tires and running hunters out (see other threads on this topic).

so your your telling me that doyle and his guides were slashing everyones tires that came close to that area come on dude show me the proof

I have been hearing about this bull since the news came out and just happened across this page.

Jeremy, we all know guys that pay to shoot, I won't call it hunting because it's not, just look up the definition in Webster’s, my problem is with this guy sporting this bull around like he's some kind of hunter when he's not. As for B&C;those guys should also pick up a copy of Webster’s and look up the definition of fair chase, the whole thing stinks and gives hunters a bad rap. I hope the guy chokes on the first steak he eats from the animal, but I'm sure he probably doesn't eat wild game.

your right bob it really isnt fair chase at all but the man did pay alot of money for the tag and guide fees i am really just mad at all the people that that are jelous of the mans money if they want to spend there money on wine and fancy resturants then fine he just chose to spend it on a big bull elk thanks for your coment i like hearing from other hunters and there opinions

Fair chase is what it’s all about man; otherwise should a guy expect the NFL commissioner at his door with a Lombardi trophy and a super bowl ring every time he beats Madden 08 on his x-box?
I don’t have a problem with a guy using a guide, I just have a problem with him sporting it around trying to put himself off as some kind of hunter because he’s not, he shoots animals that somebody else has been paid to locate and point out to him, as for the money man some things just cant be bought, like respect, If you want to be respected as some kind of great hunter you sure aren’t going to do it like this. Believe me this guy has nothing that myself or anyone else I hunt with would be jealous of.

bob great coment and argument your absoloutly right ts not hunting its killing just as you stated people have got to understand that as for b and c reconizing it as a world record it shouldnt be but that fact ot the matter is that it was a wild free ranging elk and thats why it is recognized as the world record do i think it should be ya and no ya cause it was free ranging and no cause it might as well have been a high fence hunt it was almost 100 percent garontee he was going to kill it thank you once again for your coment and feel free to respond

Ya know it is what it is, (disgusting). Now moving on to more important things, what worth should we put in B&C;’s stamp of approval when they allow animals taken in this manner to be compared with others that have been taken by true sportsman? It’s their integrity that is in question; I don’t think there is any question about this Denny guy. Somehow I don’t think this is what Teddy R had I mind when they made up the rules.

If fair chase was against the law this guy would United States number one citizen.

Fair a: marked by impartiality and honesty: free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism <a > b (1): conforming with the established rules:

Chase a: the hunting of wild animals —used with the b: the act of chasing: PURSUIT c: an earnest or frenzied seeking after something desire.

The following statement was taken off the Boone and Crockett website- which after looking at the above postings is definitely contrary to the definitions of fair chase. If their highest standards are a "hunter" using radios, 13 guides (and sub-guides)- whose main function is to keep other hunters from taking a shot at the animal (which to me should not be determined "Public" land), and making a phone call to some dude to say come shoot it- "we've got it all ready for you" is not fair chase nor hunting for that matter. It is the same as the Southern United States "hunters" who shoot a ranch buck with its head up in one of their tripod feeders. I would like to hear B and C's stance on these issues when they award their records. But it will hard to defend anything on the grounds mentioned in these postings...

MISSION STATEMENT
It is the policy of the Boone and Crockett Club to promote the guardianship and provident management of big game and associated wildlife in North America and maintain the highest standards of fair chase and sportsmanship in all aspects of big game hunting, in order that this resource of all the people may survive and prosper in its natural habitats. Consistent with this objective, the Club supports the use and enjoyment of our wildlife heritage to the fullest extent by this and future generations.

Obviously nobody over at B&C;has read their own mission statement lately. What’s next, the Olympic committee auctioning off the opportunity to use sprig loaded shoes in the high jump at the next summer games or maybe baseball can auction off the right to use corked bats and steroids that would fit along the same guidelines that B&C;is using for sportsmanship.

I submit to you that B&C;should change their acronym to B o C (bunch of crap) because that’s what this is, it is what it is.

First of all congrats on a great bull. For those animal rights mini minds, what have you ever done to preserve any wildlife habitat? I have purshased land, purshased equipment to plant food plots, purshased fertilizer and seed to plant, purchased conservation tags to preserve wildlife, worked weekend after weekend planting and weeding foodplots for wildlife. I take one or two deer per year and ten to fifteen survive because of my efforts. You people sicken me.

The last commentor, Bruce C. is a good case in point about the Achilles Heel on the purveyors of sport hunting. They can be brought down by their own Bragging and rendered blind and deaf by unchecked anger . For one thing, he violated the Prime Directive of hunting and rifle safety: know your target before you jack in a round and pull the trigger. Do any of the other Commentors know this guy ? I do not , but ( a) I've done plenty of wildlife conservation work , though at this stage of my life I do not even own a gun nor work in the hunting trade any longer. Commercial outfitting long ago sickened me , and ( b) I very much resent his unthinking rageful blanket accusations . Go shoot your blunderbuss somewhere else , away from this forum , please.

Hunting has never been so good in the western us states....this is clearly the results of the combined effort of the FWP, loggers, big game outfitters, and outdoor sportsman all sharing a great passion for wildlife management.

" Hunting has never been so good in the western us states.." ...uh , not so where I live ( NW Wyoming). I'm not even 60 years old, and already in my lifetime the yields of elk and deer have gone abyssmal.

And please don't blame the Wolves. This was happening way before Wolf 1 got his green card from Canada. They're trying their very best to re-strengthen the herds , in spite of the efforts of humans to further disrupt the herds and degrade the ungulate gene lines by relentlessly hammering the prime stock.

I cannot agree totally with this type of hunting but its true, if you have the money you can buy. This is not only in the hunting world but in every area of life.
The rhetorical naysayers here, or antis, can build there homes in the national parks, if they have the money!
They can be the BMOC in their local club, or church, if they have the money!
They can live their protected, air conditioned snobbish, holier than thou lives in their gated communities, if they have the money!
They scream hunters are takers, slobs, fat pigs, redneck yo-yos while they consume 45% of the gross world output. But, because they dont hunt they are better than all others.
If Austad had not killed this elk, you would have never seen it and would have nothing to bitch about. This elk was 10 years old and never reported being seen.
You naysayers have missed the connection to the land and have no understanding of the cycle of life.
I have seen your type as you vacation with your overwieght families at local restaurants and motels, drinking sodas and eating cheetos as you sloth your way from the hotel pool to your room. Or you green tree huggers, pale, thin,lonely, crabby, complaining dry mouths, because no one wants to live like you. You roam the world and suck the life out of every human you come in contact with because of your bitterness with OMG hunters.
Just remember, you may rely on a hunter someday to feed your sorry a$$ when there is no food to be had from your bankrupt organic food store. But that will never happen, will it!

I think what many are failing to see, is that this is a rare event. Not every hunter out there gets the chance at such a magnificent bull. Most game management programs only allow you to take spike or small branched antler Elk. There are a few big bull permits issued, but those for the most part go unfilled.

I look at how much I spend each year to go hunting. I buy tags, licenses, equipment, fuel etc. All which helps the economy. Monies from tags and licenses goes to help manage the game herds. Organizations like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Mule Deer Foundation spend tons of money every year improving wildlife habitat.

What have the granola crunchers done to help wildlife lately?

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