Greater Caution Needed Before Supporting Thinning, Biomass Projects
By George Wuerthner, 2-08-10
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| Where thinning/logging failed to halt stand replacement fire. | |
INTRODUCTION
The rush to formulate new forest legislation that advocates thinning forests, use of biomass for energy production, and the presumption that our forests are “unhealthy” and/or that large fires and beetle outbreaks are undesirable may soon create a new threat to our forests. There are a host of different bills before Congress including legislation introduced by Mark Udall of Colorado, Jon Tester of Montana, Ron Wyden of Oregon, among others that are all predicated upon a number of flawed or exaggerated assumptions.
Some of this legislation is better than others, and some of it even has some very good things in the language and policies that are an improvement over present policies. Nevertheless, there are many underlying assumptions that are troubling.
THE FIRE SUPPRESSION CONUNDRUM
There is a circular logic going on around the issue of fuel buildup and fire suppression. Currently the major federal agencies including the Forest Service and BLM generally attempt to suppress fires, except in a few special locations like designated wilderness. Despite the fact that most agencies now recognize that wildfires have a very important ecological role to play, we are told by managing agencies that they must continue to suppress fires or face “catastrophic” blazes—which they consider to be “uncharacteristic”.
The problem is that thinning won’t solve the “problem” of large blazes because the problem isn’t fuels. By allowing the timber industry to define the problem and propose a solution we have a circular situation whereby the land management agencies continue to suppress fires, thereby presumably permitting fuels to build up, which they assert thus drives large blazes, creating a need for more logging and fire suppression. This cycle of fire suppression, logging, grazing, and more fire suppression has no end.
In addition, since thinning reduces completion, opens up the forest floor to more light, thus new plant growth, thinning can often lead to creation of even more of the flashy fine fuels that sustain forest fires. Unless these thinned stands are repeatedly treated, they can actually acerbate fire hazard by increasing the overall abundance of the very fuels which are most problematic—the smaller shrubs, grasses, and small trees that sustain fire spread.
In addition, thinning can increase solar penetration leading to more rapid drying and greater penetration of wind—both factors that aid fire spread.
This is not unlike the approach taken with predator control, whereby agencies for years have shot, poisoned, and trapped coyotes in the belief that they were reducing coyote numbers. But since coyotes respond to such persecution with greater fecundity, predator control becomes a self fulfilling activity whereby predator control begets more predator control.
While fire suppression (and logging, grazing, and so forth) may be a contributing factor in fire spread in some forest types (primarily ponderosa pine), they are not ultimately what is driving most large fires. Large blazes are almost universally associated with climatic features like severe drought, wind, and ultimately by shift in oceanic currents such as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. Therefore fuel reductions will not substantively change the occurrence of large blazes.
Even if one wanted to buy into the fuels-is-driving- large blazes story, it would behoove us to rethink the range of solutions. The National Park Service, the only agency that does not have a commercial logging mandate, has effectively dealt with fuel reductions through wildlands fire and prescribed burning. At the very least, any fuel reduction that may be needed should be done by prescribed burning.
QUESTIONING FIRE SUPPRESSION
One of the underlying assumptions of all these pieces of legislation is the idea that our forests are unhealthy and possess unnatural fuel loads due to fire suppression or fire exclusion. There is, of course, a bit of truth to the generalization that some forest types may have had some fuel build ups as a consequence of fire exclusion, but whether these fuel build ups are outside of the historic range of variability is increasingly under scrutiny.
It’s also very important to note that the majority of all forests/plant types in the West like lodgepole pine, subalpine fir, aspen, juniper, red fir, silver fir, Engelmann spruce, western red cedar, Douglas fir in west coast ecosystems, and many others have such naturally long fire intervals, that suppression, even if it were as effective as some might suggest, has not affected the historic fire frequency.
Indeed, the majority of acreage of forest types burned annually tend to be characterized by moderate to severe fire, and are not the forest types where fuel build up is presumed to be a major problem—namely ponderosa pine forest type. Yet most people apply the ponderosa pine model of less intense frequent fires to all other forest types and thus assume that fire suppression has created unnatural fuel levels.
In particular the timber industry has adopted the convenient theme that fire suppression has created a presumed “fuel build-up” responsible for large wildfires. (Never mind that there were always large wildfires long before there was any effective fire suppression—for instance, the 1910 Burn which charred more than 3 million acres of northern Idaho and western Montana)
Thus logging proponents have created a “problem” namely fuel build up, and then by happy coincidence, have a solution that just happens to benefit them-- logging the forest.
Fire suppression may have influenced some low elevation dry forests like those dominated by pure ponderosa pine, but perhaps not nearly to the degree or over the large geographical area that timber interest and logging proponents try to suggest. Those who want to justify logging try to conflate low elevation forests with all forest types—many of which such as lodgepole pine—are very likely not affected by fire suppression due to the naturally long intervals between fires in these forests.
CLIMATIC DRIVERS OF LARGE BLAZES
The emphasis on fuel reductions has obscured the fact that nearly all large blazes are climate/weather driven events. Evidence is building that wet, cool climatic conditions may be more responsible for dense forest stands and/or lack of fires than anything to do with fire suppression. In other words, fire suppression may not be as effective as some suggest and any fuel build up may be within natural or expected range.
In addition, there is also a growing body of scientific analysis that calls into question the very methods and conclusions used to construct fire histories. These analyses suggest that historic fire intervals, even in lower elevation dry forests like ponderosa pine, are biased. Fire intervals may be far longer than previously assumed. Because of this longer fire interval, dense forest stands may be natural, and/or no different than what existed in the past. There is also new evidence for mixed “severity” (i.e. moderate change) fires as well as crown fires in these dry forests. The implications of these findings is that many forests, even low elevation forests, may well be within the historic range of variability.
LARGE BLAZES NECESSARY
One of the issues missed by thinning proponents is that the vast majority of all ecological work occurs in a very small number of fires—the big so-called “catastrophic” fires. Even though most agencies and environmental groups now profess to believe that wildfire is important to healthy forest ecosystems, they are not willing to let fires do the work.
For example, in the years between 1980 and 2003, there were more than 56,350 fires in the Rockies. These fires burned 3.6 million hectares (8.64 million acres) Most of these fires were small—despite all the fuels that has supposedly made conditions in forests ready to “explode”. Out of these 56,350 fires, the vast majority of blazes totaling 55,228 fires or 98% of all blazes only charred 4% of the acreage.
On the other hand, a handful of fires—1,222 or less than 2% of the fires accounted for 96% of the acreage burned. Even more astounding is that 0.1% of the fires or about 50 fires charred more than 50% of the acreage burned.
This suggests four things to me. First, fuels are not driving large blazes. There is plenty of fuel throughout the Rockies, but most fires never burn more than a few acres—despite all the fuels that is sitting around. Fire suppression if it was responsible for a fuels build up doesn’t appear to be creating a lot of big fires.
The few very large fires that everyone is concerned about occur during very special conditions of drought, combined with low humidity, high temperatures and wind. And these conditions simply do not occur very often. When they do line up in the same place at the same time than you get a large fire—no matter what the fuel loading may be. My conclusion is that large blazes are climate driven events, not fuels driven.
Finally, the take home message for me is that even if we were successful at stopping big blazes through thinning and/or fire suppression, we would be in effect eliminating fire from the landscape. Since almost everyone today at least professes to the goal of restoring fire, than we have to tolerate the few large blazes—not try to stop them. Of course, it appears that despite our best efforts with logging, thinning, and all the rest, we have not had that much influence on eliminating the large blazes.
FRAMING THE ISSUE
One of the other major problems I have with the way many organizations have chosen to work on these issues is the way they “frame” the issues. When words like “working landscapes”, “restoration” , “unhealthy forests” “catastrophic blazes” “beetle outbreaks” are used in any discussion related to forests, they solidify in the public’s mind that there is a major problem with our forests, and more importantly that the “cure” is some kind of major invasive manipulation of forest ecosystems.
One must be careful about how you frame this issue. Even though most environmentalists do not support large scale commercial logging of our national forests, and have a lot of sidebars on how any logging should be done to address ecological concerns, when environmental groups say things like “we need to maintain our timber industry to restore the forests” the public just hears that our forests are a mess and the ONLY solution is more logging. I maintain that is not a message environmentalists want to be conveying. The public does not hear the sidebars, nor the cautionary words, rather they hear that we need to log our forests, and do so in a big way or ecological Armageddon is about to befall the West.
WHAT IS PRUDENT BEHAVIOR?
There is an important lesson in science called the precautionary principle. In the absence of full understanding of a problem, it is usually best to prescribe the least invasive and least manipulative actions. Conservation groups would be wise to apply this principle to forest policy.
That doesn’t mean I don’t support some “restoration” activities. To make an analogy, let’s look at the issue of wolf restoration. Putting wolves back on the land restores predation influences, but this is a very different thing than allowing hunters to kill elk. Especially because it allows the wolves, and natural conditions like drought, etc. t o determine what is the “right” number of elk and deer, not some agency with an agenda to sell licenses. Hunters influence elk differently than wolves and logging is different than say fires. Just as an elk killed by a wolf leaves behind carrion that other animals can use, a forest with fire leaves behind a lot of biomass that helps to sustain many other functions in the forest.
Logging short circuits those ecosystems functions. As with hunting whenever you have a commercial enterprise involved in natural resource policy, it distorts the conclusions and it’s convenient to ignore anything that suggests the activity—whether hunting or logging is creating problems.
NEW PARADIGM
There is a growing challenge to many of the assumptions about fires and its influence on forests. These challenges to assumptions about constitutes forest “health” and the historic role of large blazes and beetle influences is not unlike the challenges to common assumptions about predators that began with people like Adolph Murie, George Wright, and other scientists back in the 1930s and 1940s who started to question predator policy. These early ecologists were not only challenging politicians and citizens, but many other scientists who were advocates of killing predators to create “healthy” populations of deer and elk.
I need not remind many conservationists that there are still plenty of scientists around that will support killing predators like wolves, despite decades of research about the ecological need for top down predators. So assurances that any logging on public lands will use the “best” science are not reassuring to me. When there is a commercial/economic aspect to any management, that tends to distort and often compromise the science and scientists that are consulted. It would naïve for anyone to believe that this is any difference when dealing with fire and forest policy issues, especially when there’s an economic benefit to some industry and/or individuals for the policy.
QUESTIONING SUPPRESSION
There is a growing scientific body of work that is challenging the notion that fire suppression is responsible for dense forests and/or that crown fires, even in low elevation forests consisting of ponderosa pine and/or Douglas fir. The implications of this for forest policy are significant for if this is correct, our current conditions are not outside of the historical normal range of variability, especially when you consider past climatic conditions that are similar to the current dry, warm conditions.
One can find plenty of scientists who think our forests are out of whack, and prescribe logging to reduce fuels and so forth, however, if one is monitoring the scientific literature one would find enough evidence here and there to question the current assumptions about “forest health” and the presumed need for logging.
At the very least, it would seem a prudent approach to avoid endorsing logging when there is at least some evidence to suggest that our forests are not as out of whack as previously assumed, and/or that logging cannot do what advocates suggest—like restore the ecosystem or prevent large blazes.
PROBABILITY OF FIRES
Another unchallenged assumption of those prescribing thinning to protect say old growth ponderosa pine is the idea that somehow without thinning, we would lose all the old growth to fires. However, that ignores the low probability that any particular acre of land will burn in a fire. For one thing, most fires are small as mentioned earlier. They do not burn more than a few acres and go out. The few fires that do grow into large blazes occur under very special climatic/weather conditions of extreme drought, high wind, low humidity and high temperatures. These conditions do not occur that frequently, and to this you must provide an ignition. So even if you have drought, wind, low humidity, etc. you may not get a blaze.
In addition, even big blazes do not consume all the forest. Most large fires burn in a mosaic pattern for a host of reasons, the likelihood that any particular acre of old growth will burn is extremely small.
Finally, since thinning effectiveness even under the best circumstances rapidly declines over time, in order to protect old growth stands, thinning of that particular location in a forest must be very recent otherwise new growth generated by the opening of the forest, reduced competition, etc. often negates any advantage created by forest manipulation (logging).
LOGGING IS NOT BENIGN
Even if one disagreed with these new insights and interpretation of forest an ecosystem, and the presumed effectiveness of thinning projects, that doesn’t necessarily lead to logging as the “cure”. It wasn’t that long ago we heard many groups outlining the many ways that logging created ecological outcomes that were undesirable—the spread of weeds, changes in the abundance of snags, and down wood, that human activity in the woods disturbs and displaces sensitive wildlife, that disturbance of the land and use of logging roads (even temporarily logging roads) adds sediments to our streams, and so forth. Most of those critiques are still valid today, but we don’t hear that kind of criticism coming from many environmental groups anymore. This silence and unwillingness to continuously remind the public that logging has many, many negative impacts on forest ecosystems has compromised the environmental effectiveness as defenders of our public forests. After all who is going to assume that role if environmental groups do not continuously remind the public that logging has many unexamined and ignored externalities.
LESS MANIPULATE ALTERNATIVES EXIST
Even if one did not want to challenge the common perception that we have an “emergency” as Senators Wyden, Udall, Tester and others proclaims, logging isn’t necessarily the only or the best way to address this presumed emergency.
The National Park Service does fuels reductions and ecosystem restoration without logging. They have a long track record demonstrating that one can modify fuels and restore the ecological value of wildfire to the landscape without logging, and without jeopardizing communities. Yosemite NP, for instance, does prescribed burning in the crowded Yosemite Valley as does Muir Woods adjacent to Muir Woods, as well as many other national parks. That is not to suggest that prescribed burning will alleviate all concerns, but at the very least, it should be the approach that environmentalists advocate. Prescribed burning combined with natural wildfire can “restore” forest resilience as well as reduce fuels. Such an approach avoids many of the negatives associated with commercial logging, including the need for roads, the disturbance of water drainage by roading, soil compaction, removal of biomass, and so forth.
REDUCE HOME FLAMMABILITY AS FIRST DEFENSE AGAINST FIRE
There is an abundance of evidence to suggest that if community security is a concern, the best way to achieve that is through reduction of flammability of homes and the area immediately around the community, not wholesale logging for the forest ecosystem. Jack Cohen’s research at the Missoula Fire had demonstrated that thinning the forest is not the best way to protect homes.
Advocating for logging as the “cure” is like suggesting that the best way to reduce elk herds is by hunting, instead of being an advocate of wolf restoration. Any time you get an economic activity involved in natural processes you compromise the integrity of the goals and measures.
ADVOCATE FOR NATURAL PROCESSES
Even if the majority of you believe our forests are out of whack and are unwilling to accept the critiques from those who suggest that our understanding of forest ecosystems may be incorrect, that doesn’t mean one has to be a hand maiden for the timber industry. Nature does the best management—that is why we all are advocates for wilderness—we believe that allowing wild places to determine what is right for the landscape is the best way to preserve “healthy ecosystems”. If the forests are overstocked as some may want to conclude, than let natural processes select which trees should survive and do any thinning that is necessary using insects, disease, drought, fire, wind storms, and all the other mechanisms that regulate plant communities—and Nature will do a far better job of determining which trees should survive than any forester.
Our role as humans is to get out of the way as much as possible, not to intrude and advocate for invasive solutions like logging. The only role for logging on public lands that I see is to strategic as listed below.
WHEN TO SUPPORT LOGGING/THINNING
If you must support logging, make sure it is very limited, and framed not in terms of forest health, but as a useful way to reduce human anxiety. Logging around houses and communities to reduce public anxiety over fires may be a political necessity. A fire break of significant size around the perimeter of a community may reduce public fears about large fires; however, as has been shown in numerous cases around the West fuel breaks alone will not ensure that homes are safe. Flammability of individual homes must be addressed.
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Comments
Don't prescribed burns have the same effect?
Very good question about creating of flashy fuels. The answer is sometimes fires can create new growth of shrubs, grass, regrowth of small trees that are "flashy" fuels.
In fact, there is some research that suggests that in lodgepole pine forests about 15-30 years after a blaze, fire hazard goes up for this very reason, but then subsides as the canopy begins to close and understory vegetation is shut out.
But the probability of any particular acreage burning is low as I stated earlier. So if the goal is to protect a community or home, thinning might create more fire hazard near a home. A fire far away from communities may create flashy fuels, but so what. We want fires on the landscape, we just don't want it burning down homes.
The problem with thinning is that it can create those flashy fuels, and unless you do "maintenance" i.e. continue to periodically thin or prescribe burn the site, you can have a situation that is worse than what you started with.
But the same thing might be said about fires near homes. Unless you maintain the low fuel loadings after a blaze, you might have a flashy fuel issue. In any case, safeguarding homes doesn't require a lot of thinning, logging, brushing, etc. as 100-150 feet is typically effective at preventing fires from reaching a house--so long as the house itself is not flammable--and that is where the real effort towards home safety should be promoted.
Sorry, George, but you want a blanket policy that limits scientific responses to massive problems in our public forests. I don't want to trade 500 year old p. pine forests for thickets of 80 year old lodgepole or knobcone stands. I don't want to trade endangered species habitat for a carpet of lodgepole pines. Active management doesn't have to be limited to commercial logging. What our forests need is site-specific, scientifically-sound forest management. Just letting forests burn at high-intensity and seeing what the hell grows back is not following the "Precautionary Principle", George.
Most everyone knows about the Big Meadow Fire and how it turned a 90 acre brush burnoff into a 17,000 acre boondoggle that cost 15+ million dollars to deal with while, at the same time, tying up fire suppression resources that were dearly needed in other parts of the state. Did I mention that the Park Service chose to do this burn during near-record high temperatures? Did I mention the tourist dollars that were lost during the middle of the tourist season? Did I mention all the local people who were sick from the thick smoke? Did I mention the official health alerts affecting hundreds of thousands of people?
I worked on the previous A-Rock Fire, back in 1989, and have been watching the Big Meadow area ever since, knowing that the unharvested old growth snags were on the ground, hidden by thick manzanita. The plans were flawed and the risks taken by the firing crew were unacceptable.
What people haven't heard about is the other Let-Burn escape near Badger Pass that forced them to torch off 4 miles of roadside along Highway 41, killing hundreds of large trees and endangering the public. They will now need to cut all the dead trees along that portion of highway. The flaw there was an inflexibility to change plans and tactics as conditions changed. Acres-burned targets need to be met! *smirk*
This situation isn't uncommon, as the firefighter's gung-ho attitude needs to be tempered with experienced and knowledgable leadership. From what I understand, they plan to make no changes in their ignition policies, including summer burns. These problems are not enough to end prescribed burning, especially in Yosemite. The fire folks in Yosemite have a lot on their plates and they generally do a good job. We just need to be more wise in how we go about doing it.
Luckily, the Forest Service is better about staying in prescription and analyzing the projects. However, like the Park Service, the Forest Service is having an experience crunch. With the Forest Service using WFU and FURB fires, small fires become very big and few have specific experience fighting big fires anymore. Also within the Forest Service is a fear of lighting prescribed fires, due to litigation if their burn escapes. From a liability standpoint, they have little legal risk to letting a natural ignition burn. From a fuels standpoint, it is easier than fighting lawsuits over mechanical thinning. To me, it is like Vietnam Era rhetoric saying that "we must burn our forests to save them".
In truth, we need to be able to use every tool in the toolbox to create forests that survive droughts, bark beetles and wildfires.
I'd estimate that 95% of every old growth stand that burned could have been saved by thinning......heh.....Almost as silly as your statement, Mickey. Seriously, though, most forest scientists agree that catastrophic wildfires are the biggest threat to old growth forests today. Will we let history bear that out, or will we invoke the "Precautionary Principle" to save forests from ongoing incineration and destruction?
Oh, I surely don't doubt that! Some of the Ranger Districts I have been on have a policy to keep those to a minimum. Generally, they don't want to have to chase down the flare-ups right when they are starting to get into regular fire season.
Well, let's compare work experience, eh? I've worked on the Cleveland, the San Berdoo, the Angeles, the Los Padres, the Sequoia, the Stanislaus, the Eldorado, the Tahoe, the Plumas, the Lassen, the Modoc, the Shasta-Trinity, the Klamath, the Six-Rivers, the Mendocino and even the Siskiyou. And that's just in California!
I have no ties to the Forest Service or the timber industry, as I am somewhat disabled from my long career. I DO have ties to nature through my scenic landscape photography, appreciating natural beauty in its myriad of forms and surprises. The Indians intervened into their environment. That is historical fact. Why can't we restore those forests to enhance endangered species habitat? Why can't we increase forest health by thinning and then use a regular program of safer, controllable, prescribed fire? Why can't we reduce all sizes of trees back closer to their historical baselines? None of you preservationists want to talk about that stuff. You only seek to obscure and obstruct the clearest path to forest ecosystem's health. I contend that humans CAN grow old growth forests, and they CAN do it faster than nature can.
I have walked and studied every large fire that has burned in the Klamath Mountains since 1997 and most of the studies that have been done here of fire behavior and response. There are very few old growth stands that have been killed by wildfire;p there are a few that have been killed by backfires and burnouts. Even in 1987 - the worst fire conditions - all OG that burned naturally survived just fine.
I'd likie to know where Fotoware knows of OG that was "thinned" and then burned in a fire.
As a matter of fact, I was in Yosemite Valley today and saw the damage that their uncontrolled "controlled burn" liquidated 20 years of fire recovery, setting it back to an even worse state than after the original fire. The soils are lifeless powder and rock, with ZERO organic matter left in the soil. the rainfall barely penetrates and the huge old growth snags that were there after the first fire, caused the escape of the controlled burn (which was initiated during near-record temperates).
I have "saved" many thousands and thousands of trees by simply walking by them, while wielding my "blue death-spray" paintgun. Did you go and look at the parts of the Silver Fire that was re-burned in the Biscuit Fire?? Pretty UGLY!! Sadly, most people don't see the carnage of old growth that I have seen in my long career.
On a side note, if there is soooooo little old growth left in America, how come the eco-community litigates every timber sale that cuts a 20" dbh tree? What is wrong with restoring our forests back to pre-European stocking levels, structure and species composition. Today's forests don't come close to meeting any of those categories, right now. Some forests are even disappearing when catastrophic fires come through. Take a drive on Highway 395 from Gardnerville to Susanville and you'll see where fire has eradicated old growth forests along that whole stretch.
I can't respond to the specifics of your question about old growth burning up in a fire, vs. logging. There is a huge ecological difference between the two. The chief (but not the only value) of old growth trees lies in its large size of boles and the consequence way this influences the ecosystem. Whether dead or alive, large trees provide structural diversity to the forest ecosystem. A large dead snag is far more valuable than a small one. A large dead tree falling into a stream creates more habitat for fish and remains as a long term nutrient source than a small tree. A large dead tree on the ground soaks up more moisture acting as a sponge that provides critical moisture for tree seedlings compared to a small tree. I could go on this litany, but there are many who will argue that the greatest value of a large tree is after it is dead.
Contrast that with logging old growth. You remove the tree from the forest ecosystem and short circuit all the above values.
To my mind there is nothing wrong with a wildfire burning up some old growth--indeed, we need to do this to provide the snags, dead trees, etc. necessary for long term forest sustainability.
I was just in Yosemite yesterday and saw where hundreds of massive old growth pines died in the A-Rock Fire of 1989. Those trees fell over and had been covered by thick manzanita. Last summer, fire crews lost their tiny controlled burn and, as it roared through the 20 years of brush and small trees, the many large logs on the ground fueled a hellish fire that left very little to cover the bare ground and rocks today. So, in the period of 20 years, this formerly cathedral-like stand of majestic old growth pines that had survived countless wildfires has turned into a "moonscape" that could take centuries to "recover".
Now, this being in a National Park, I am fine with letting nature rule in National Parks. However, in our National Forests, we should be returning forests to a more "natural" and resilient state, similar to what the Indians managed for. We can't wall off our existing forests, waiting for them to catastrophically burn down. This is NO shortage of snags, George. Indians routinely burned down those snag patches, as dead trees didn't enhance their survival. We MUST be good stewards of our forests and limiting our scientifically-sound options will surely result in stand-replacing fires, just like I saw in Yosemite.
However, here in California, a 24" dbh tree might only be 60 years old and, comparitively, is a tiny tree when compared to an 84" dbh tree it might be growing underneath. In Oregon, I measured and cored a 60 year old tree that was 32" dbh. Size and age don't necessarily correlate.
I didn't suggest you were advocating for logging old growth, rather commenting on the idea that some find it difficult to see why we can't log forests, including larger trees, rather than see them burn.
The situation you described in Yosemite is not that common. As the likelihood of a reburn of a previously burned stand is rather low--though it does happen--even under "natural" conditions. For instance, there were extensive reburns of the 1910 fires in Idaho and Montana in 1919. Same for the Tillamook Fires on the Oregon Coast, etc.
Those reburns actually create a greater mosaic in the forest ecosystem. And I an unaware of any place where it has taken "centuries" for areas to "recover"--though you might be able to name a few. That would not change the generalization that severely burned sites typically revegetate rather quickly.
Indeed, one of the interesting things about the Yellowstone fires is that the sites that experienced the most severe burns, were the places with the densest reforestation. I'm not suggesting that would be true of all sites. Much of Yosemite is more arid, and it might remain in brush rather than in forest for a long time awaiting moister conditions that may come centuries from now.
Nevertheless, I think you exaggerate the situation, creating a problem out of something that I view as desirable.
I completely agree with you. Age does not correlate with old growth. I have a 25 inch diameter tree in my yard in Oregon that is only 35 years old. Of course, it is growing without much competition hence grows rapidly, so not exactly compatible to a forest situation. Nevertheless, you are correct that a large tree can be grown in a relatively short time in Pacific Coast state forests on productive sites.
In fact, you hit upon one of the things that I use to argue against the fear that all "old growth" is burning up. I.e. that in much of the PNW trees do attain large sizes relatively quickly.
And it is the large bole size that is the critical ecological element in most instances. Typically when a tree exceeds 18-20 inches in diameter it begins to achieve a size that fulfills the ecological role of large diameter trees in the ecosystem. Of course, bigger is better, but even medium size trees can provide many of the benefits attributed to "old growth" function.
So even if some larger trees burned up, we would soon have replacements before the snags, logs, etc. were eliminated from the landscape through rotting, because as you note things do rot slowly in the West.
It, of course, takes a lot longer to obtain large trees in many parts of the Rockies where tree growth is slower.
I could be considered a salvage expert, with 20 years of wildfire and bark beetle salvage experience. I've seen and worked on some of the major fires of the last 20 years. I've worked in some of the major centers of bark beetle activity over the years.
The perception that letting bark beetles and wildfires run wild is destroying our forests. There is currently a major paradigm shift in natural resource management to restore and increase resiliency through active management options which fits the ground. Those clinging to outdated eco-myths want to severely limits those resiliency options, "unintended consequences" be-damned!. They cling to preserving "unnatural" forests.
How many more millions of acres and millions of tons of GHG's will go up in smoke before we're "progressive" enough to understand and accept "restoration forestry"??
I have visited the Biscuit burn area four times since the large fires. I don't know that I have seen the exact spot you refer to. However, if I remember correctly an analysis of the fires I read found that dense old growth were less likely to burn than other areas. I could locate the paper if you wanted to check on that assertion.
But I think the paradigm shift you are talking about is nothing new. It's the same old paradigm that thinks humans know enough about forest ecosystems to manage them.
What my years of ecological study and observation have taught me is that we typically have no idea of what's happening, and often misinterpret what is actually happening. Just to give one recent example, it wasn't that long ago that agencies like the FS pulled trees from streams to "restore"them and "improve" fish habitat and passage. Further research demonstrated that dead trees in streams was critical to stream function. I would caution to be careful about the assumptions made today in terms of "restoration" for much the same reasons.
Dead trees are important to ecosystem function. I don't view a forest stand killed by wilfire or beetles as "destroyed". Rather I see these events as ecological opportunities. I think if you take an forest ecosystem approach to thinking about these things you will come to understand that a living tree's function changes over time, and its importance as a source for dead trees which are among the most important elements in a forest is often overlooked by the bias we have for live trees.
"...we typically have no idea of what's happening, and often misinterpret what is actually happening" Actually, I have predicted this mess of a problem with dead, dying and burned trees since 1989. Could it be that it is YOU who are currently "misinterpreting" the intense unhealthiness and mortality of our current forests? Could it be that you are confusing preservationism with unstewardship?
We DO know how to restore forests, and not break the bank to do it. Modern forestry HAS evolved and is up to the challenge so, why doom the forests to continuing historic levels of neglect and unhealthiness with the stagnant rigidity of faith-based preservationism?? In the face of 7 million acres of dead forests, and tens of millions more at risk to stand-replacement fires, how can doing nothing change this situation?
Have you ever tried to manage an actual wildfire burning somewhere, anywhere?
After a few years of messing around with wildfires, I have noticed that they seem to be a lot easier to deal with in forests in which the sun actually penetraits the canopy. It seems that forbes and grasses are better arranged to allow for the dissipation of heat and the extinguishment of fire than closed canopy forests.
There's no need to worry that wildfires won't get their chance to effect forest ecosystems. Playing on words to make people think that wildfires are uniform in their behavior, either benign or totally devastating is not contributing to this discussion at all.
The whole question comes down to the potential BTU production from any fuel model and its spacial relationship to structures of value that can be negatively impacted by the release of that potential energy.
All wildfires aren't created equal and all landscapes aren't adapted to be resilient to the potential wildfires that await ignition.
Yes in my younger days I worked on some fires.
I can't argue with personal observations since what vegetation, under what circumstances, and many other variables etc. affects fires. I can say that there is evidence to suggest that more open forests may burn better than dense ones--again depending on the circumstances.
Ponderosa pines thrived uder these conditions, with their thick bark and shielded buds. I've seen crispy-looking pines sprout buds the next season (often before finally dying). However, no amount of fire adaptations can save them from a forest with piles of logging slash, fallen snags or thick understory brush and trees. Much of our western forests run out of moisture during the long, hot summers, regardless of how much canopy closure there is. Restoration of historical densities, structure and species composition is the best way to minimize fire risk and fire intensities. The myth of "natural fire" might be true in designated wilderness areas but, most forests are not "pristine" and have indeed been affected by man in a big way. Fires that burn in unnatural forests are, by definition, unnatural.
Restoration forestry is where it is at. Preservation isn't restoration.
That statement is false. Fire behavior is mostly dependent on weather - which we can't control. Fuel is usually a relatively minor influence on fire behavior but it is emphasized because it is the only component of fire behavior we humans can influence.
Fotoware also says "Restoration forestry is where it is at. Preservation isn't restoration."
This is simplistic and an expression of human hubris. When have humans ever restored anything natural? In reality the best we humans can do is rehabilitate the damage our kind has caused; it is nature which does the restoration.
Human hubris is the core problem; our species' need to be in charge and necessary to the "health" of forests is juvenile if not infantile. Restraint is the most important tool of the true restorationist.
Any firefighter knows about the "fire triangle". When the stocking levels are 1000 times more than pre-European times, you're going to have serious problems. There simply ISN'T enough rainfall to support the amount of trees you want in our forests! Sorry but, that is reality, folks!
And your hubris is showing as well, wanting what you want in today's unnatural forests. I guess the Indians had the same hubris, as well, since they altered so much to survive and thrive. I've seen many, many examples of restoration in thinning projects that do all the good things in the forest we want. We KNOW how to do low-impact thinning with surgical precision. We KNOW how to improve ESA habitat, making it resilient and vigorous. We also KNOW how to catastrophically destroy forests by doing nothing.
Human hubris is NOT restricted to the pro-management side. At least WE can back up our claims with observations, analysis and science. We've seen how nature rebalances fuel levels with catastrophic wildfire and bark beetles. We may not be able to do it better than nature but, we can definitely do it a LOT faster!! Let's see you try to subpoena "Gaia" to testify for you in court...heh heh.
Sorry, Mick, your insults only add to your ignorance. No one knows what forests looked like without man. That is exactly the kind of forests you want, without knowing what they really were like, and without caring what happens when, man-caused or not, wildfire roars through.
Now that the comment period for the new Forest Service Planning Rule is closed, we'll see if we follow the path that Vilsack has laid out. The path that includes PLENTY of active management. Chances are, it won't be enough but, anything is better than unstewardship and neglect.
First, once and for all, wildfire is a function of fuel -- not weather (or "climate change!"). Otherwise there would be wildfires in Death Valley most days. Weather and topography play a part in wildfire behavior, but fuel and a source of ignition are critical.
Second, a 20" or 30" diameter tree in the Pacific Northwest is not "large." Four-foot to ten-foor diameter trees are large. To say they "function" as anything is to give them some type of human value, which is maybe "ecological" and probably not "biological." In this sense I am using "ecological" as "political" for reasons of personal experience related to understandings of federal policy, agency "science," and litigation. Whatever "functions" these trees may or may not have are assigned by people -- and different people imagine different functions; based entirely on their own personal values and biases. I would say they mostly "function" as fuel, for example, in most cases if left untended.
Finally, here is a video of a typical area of the Silver-Biscuit Burn in which invasive conifer have subjected actual old-growth (200-year old trees) to competition and crown fire, resulting in mortality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcG-tNw6_2o
No, I am not a botanist. But stand-replacement events and reburns are the norm for catastrophic-scale wildfires in the Pacific Northwest and do NOT result in any kind of desirable "mosaic," as George likes to imagine. Facts are facts, and can be documented.
Maybe you should go back to school, Mick?!?
No one is saying we need to manage every acre. The government is NOT broke, printing up more and more money to fling far and wide, ballooning the deficit. I care very little about deficits and rich people and corporations. I DO care an awful lot about forests. Fires will never be eliminated but, in a great many areas we can reduce fire intensities, sizes and tragedies. Yes, it is a challenge but, the rewards justify the trouble it will take to keep forests alive and healthy, supplying us with all the great "ecosystem services" that we depend upon. What kind of "ecosystem services" do dead forests supply??
I think the everyone can read what is in this thread and should be able to decide what kinds of forests they want. It is as easy as picking a color...... Green, black, or brown??? You decide! Sorry Mick but, you already voted for black/brown.....heh heh.
Anyone else want to stand up and be counted?
I am so glad to read your words "works for me" in reference to Fotoware's advice to leave these topics and their practical application to forest scientists and stewards. Good advice, and wise agreement on your part. Then you go and ruin it by making the ignorant observation that scientists and stewards don't agree with Fotoware. That is where you are dead wrong. Again. Sure, SOME "scientists" (mostly the agency Ologists) may not agree with Fotoware, but -- trust me Mickey -- a large number of recognized scientists and even larger number of resource managers DO agree with him. Totally. Particularly those scientists in the fields of anthropology, archaeology, fire history, historical ecology, and forest history. And those resource managers ("stewards") with actual experience as wildfire managers and forest managers.
Remember when I suggested (strongly) that you read some Anderson, Bonnicksen, Boyd, Denevan, Woods, and a few others before continuing to commit your outdated and simplistic perspectives regarding fire history and plant ecology to print? Those people are scientists, Mick. Internationally recognized. And they agree with what Fotoware is writing, and not with you.
Please do some reading and some thinking about these issues. It's fun, and you will begin understanding better what it is the rest of us have been trying to tell you. Your current "ideas" are in error, and the sooner you become aware of what others are currently studying and what their thoughts are, the better you will begin to understand what is being said.
You seem to be a fairly bright person with a good vocabulary, but with a limited perspective and an unwillingness to accept new information. Do some reading and thinking Mickey, with an open mind. It will be good for you, and you will enjoy it. Trust me.