Commentary: Joan McCarter
How Much Stimulus is Enough Stimulus?
With so much focus on so many picayune details in the stimulus plan, are we losing sight of the real question? What's it going to take to make this work, and how are we going to get there?By Joan McCarter, 2-03-09
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We now know that this new political world we live in is neither so new, nor post-partisan. With no Republican votes in the House, and Republican opposition solidifying in the Senate, it’s time for President Obama and the Democrats to stop the elusive chase for a bipartisan bill, and to refocus on making this the best bill possible, make it a bill that will put people back to work and stabilize incomes. Solving this economic crisis isn’t just good policy, it’s much better politics than bowing before the shrine of David Broder style bipartisanship. Bipartisanship is a lot like compromise that way--it only works when both parties are negotiating in good faith. I don’t think we need any more demonstration of the Republicans’ lack of good faith in this process.
The Republicans have succeeded in turning this into a political football, and the Dems have been playing along. It’s as if they are some how insulated from the news. As if they didn’t get the message that 100,000 jobs were lost last week alone. As if they don’t know California is almost out of business. As if they don’t know that the bottom of this economy is hanging on by a slim thread, ready to drop. And as if they don’t understand just what a gift the 2008 election--and Obama’s incredible popularity--is. Right now, they’ve got an unprecedented mandate to enact the kind of package that the nation needs.
The question that needs to be asked now is what kind of package that is. That was one topic of discussion among the economists and analysts at Davos last week as reported by Arianna Huffington at Huffington Post. One answer is that it needs to be bigger.
“I support the stimulus package,” Van Jones, author of The Green Economy, told me. “But when I look at it in its entirety, I fear that we may soon look back and say that we missed a huge chance to go bigger and bolder. After all, there were three flaws with the old economy that has crashed: it favored consumption over production; debt over smart savings; and environmental damage over environmental renewal. Some parts of the stimulus package seem to be more of the same—trying to prop up the old, failed economy. That strategy simply won’t work—but we could waste a lot of money and time trying. Instead, we need a new direction for our economy. You can’t jump halfway across a chasm—you just end up falling into the abyss.”
Rick Levin, president of Yale and an economics professor, echoed Van Jones’ call for “bigger and bolder”: “First of all, there’s a question of magnitude. The overall stimulus is about 6 percent of GDP. We did not exit the Great Depression without a stimulus that amounted to about 25 percent of GDP—we called that World War II… The second problem is with the mix… Only $335 billion worth goes to job creation—that’s about 3.5 million jobs, about $100,000 a job. Three-and-a-half million jobs is only two percentage points on the unemployment rate. That’s not enough. I would get rid of the tax cuts and use the entire package for job creation… There are lots of great public works projects that would be well worth supporting. And, in the near term, what about CCC-type activities that put people to work right away, cleaning up public parks, weather-stripping homes, offices, schools, government buildings?”
As for the tax cuts that are being dangled in front of recalcitrant Republicans to try to bribe them into helping, the tax cuts that supplanted about $22 billion of transportation funding, at least one Nobel laureate warns of their ineffectiveness:
President-elect Barack Obama should avoid tax cuts in his new stimulus package unless they are linked to investment, Nobel Prize laureate Joseph Stiglitz wrote in the Financial Times.
“We need to link handouts to changes in behavior,” said Stiglitz, who won a Nobel Prize in 2001 for his work on the economic value of information. “Household tax cuts, except for possibly the poorest, should have no place in the stimulus. Nor should business tax breaks, except when closely linked with additional investment.”
We need jobs, and we need hundreds of thousands of them. The intermountain west, with the exception of Nevada, has been a little slower to feel the economic hit than the rest of the nation, but it’s settling in now. Jobless rates are increasing throughout the entire region. Nevada has the highest foreclosure rate in the nation, it’s number 3 in unemployment, and number 5 in food insecurity. Montana’s unemployment rate jumped half a percentage point in just a month’s time. Idaho’s jobless rate is higher than it’s been in 20 years at 6.4 percent--13,000 jobs were lost there from November to December. Colorado’s unemployment level has reached a five-year high, at 6.2 percent. Utah has drastically slashed the state budget, trying to keep the state afloat as unemployment rises. Even Wyoming’s boom is slowing, though it still has net job growth.
There’s no way to tax cut ourselves out of this mess, not when our infrastructure is crumbling beneath us, when we’re still hemorrhaging billions and billions in Iraq and Afghanistan, with unemployment offices unable to keep up with the demand, and record numbers of Americans relying on food stamps, 31 million people, about 1 in 10 of our population. (In that CNN story there’s this remarkable aside: “There is some debate about whether giving people money to spend on groceries is a valid form of economic stimulus.” Let them eat cake?)
In times like this, it’s worth paying attention to the words of the one person who was able to grasp the enormity of his situation, and start the nation on a path out of the Depressions. FDR, in 1932:
It is well within the inventive capacity of man, who has built up this great social and economic machine capable of satisfying the wants of all, to insure that all who are willing and able to work receive from it at least the necessities of life. In such a system, the reward for a day’s work will have to be greater, on the average, than it has been, and the reward to capital, especially capital which is speculative, will have to be less. But I believe that after the experience of the last three years, the average citizen would rather receive a smaller return upon his savings in return for greater security for the principal, than experience for a moment the thrill or the prospect of being a millionaire only to find the next moment that his fortune, actual or expected, has withered in his hand because the economic machine has again broken down.
It is toward that objective that we must move if we are to profit by our recent experiences. Probably few will disagree that the goal is desirable. Yet many, of faint heart, fearful of change, sitting tightly on the roof-tops in the flood, will sternly resist striking out for it, lest they fail to attain it. Even among those who are ready to attempt the journey there will be violent differences of opinion as to how it should be made. So complex, so widely distributed over our whole society are the problems which confront us that men and women of common aim do not agree upon the method of attacking them. Such disagreement leads to doing nothing, to drifting. Agreement may come too late.
Let us not confuse objectives with methods. Too many so-called leaders of the Nation fail to see the forest because of the trees. Too many of them fail to recognize the vital necessity of planning for definite objectives. True leadership calls for the setting forth of the objectives and the rallying of public opinion in support of these objectives.
Do not confuse objectives with methods. When the Nation becomes substantially united in favor of planning the broad objectives of civilization, then true leadership must unite thought behind definite methods.
We’re about to find out if we have that true leadership in Washington. But it would be easier for them to lead if we took more of FDR’s advice and made them do it.
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Comments
Remember when they attacked Newt Gingrich? After he agreed to pay $300,000 he had to borrow from Bob Dole, Wide eyed Bohnier jumped up and cheered, "now we have to start another investigatioin because it's illegal for him to do that." Some sensible democrat told him to sit down and shut up.
This is not a game, Joan, the future of the country is at stake.
Both sides are working to get a bill they can all get behind. The only obstructionists in the mix are far left loons like you.
Secondly, references to Nobel prize winning economists - such as Stiglitz - is a prime use of the logical fallacy of Appeal to Authority. Stiglitz's award was for his work on asymmetrical information in economic modeling - not on either monetary or fiscal policy. Both he and Paul Krugman are thrown around by the left because they have won Nobel prizes but neither can be considered expert in either monetary or fiscal policy.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not making an argument here about the wisdom of economic stimuli in one form or another. What I'm arguing is that we are in uncharted territory and the opinions of smart people who make their living by studying such things are all over the map on this question.
Everyone is well advised to take a bit of time on this. Our grandkids will thank us for not launching headlong into $1 trillion of new debt. Maybe it's true we must act, but it's more true that we can't afford to screw up. Isn't it prudent that before we engage in such an undertaking we make sure we understand what we're trying to accomplish?
Name them.
Then go back and decide if they say that prolonging it, while reducing the depth of the depression was worth it.
The whole FDR prolonged the Great Depression talking point is new to the Republican auto-messaging generation system. Did you just get the fax, because it really has been debunked into the ground long before now.
If you don't like Krugman (because he was just too damn right about our economic situation) then maybe David Sirota?
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Busting-myths-that-FDR-pro-by-David-Sirota-090119-175.html
By the way, Krugman isn't liberal.
As for Krugman... he deserved every bit of the Nobel he won. But his study was about international trade. And he certainly wasn't the first guy to call this current mess. Google a fellow named Nouriel Roubini. He called for this mess in 2005 but he doesn't think the current spending plan makes much sense either.
I can't answer your question about "reducing" the effects of the depression. No one can and to assert that it can be understood is complete nonsense.
One more thing. I don't claim to have the answers but I do have legitimate questions as opposed to some blind faith espoused by partisans - which you appear to be.
As for David Sirota, he's a putz.
Perhaps Ben Bernacke can shed some light on the FDR years? Or do you have such a high praise of him as you do of Sirota?
Sounds like you're just another Republican tax-cut pseudo-economist that has no idea what you're talking about, but you sure can revise history in order to justify whatever you currently want for your own pockets.
But I have not taken a position here - contrary to your obstreperous accusations. I can't for the life of me understand what my political affiliation has to do with my comments. Give it a rest.
PS - Sirota is still a putz - regardless of his politics.
I'll gladly put Bernacke up against your slew of cheesy revisionists.
As well, one can gauge the depth of the Great Depression in two ways: One, the GDP data. Two, from the people that lived through it.
People that lived through the Great Depression greatly take offense at the ridiculous rewriting of their history by people like Powell.
And yes, your political slant is important, as only the ridiculous Republicans that got us into this economic collapse are the ones that believe the revisionists about the FDR years. Your opinion is tainted by the lies of the party you obviously support.
"A number of analysts have raised the possibility that fiscal policy actions might usefully complement monetary policy in supporting economic growth over the next year or so. I agree that fiscal action could be helpful in principle, as fiscal and monetary stimulus together may provide broader support for the economy than monetary policy actions alone. But the design and implementation of the fiscal program are critically important. A fiscal initiative at this juncture could prove quite counterproductive, if (for example) it provided economic stimulus at the wrong time or compromised fiscal discipline in the longer term.
To be useful, a fiscal stimulus package should be implemented quickly and structured so that its effects on aggregate spending are felt as much as possible within the next twelve months or so. Stimulus that comes too late will not help support economic activity in the near term, and it could be actively destabilizing if it comes at a time when growth is already improving. Thus, fiscal measures that involve long lead times or result in additional economic activity only over a protracted period, whatever their intrinsic merits might be, will not provide stimulus when it is most needed. Any fiscal package should also be efficient, in the sense of maximizing the amount of near-term stimulus per dollar of increased federal expenditure or lost revenue. Finally, any program should be explicitly temporary, both to avoid unwanted stimulus beyond the near-term horizon and, importantly, to preclude an increase in the federal government's structural budget deficit. As I have discussed on other occasions, the nation faces daunting long-run budget challenges associated with an aging population, rising health-care costs, and other factors. A fiscal program that increased the structural budget deficit would only make confronting those challenges more difficult."
I'll take Bernanke too - and you would do well to learn how to spell his name if you're going to hold him out as some sort of Keynesian.
But your making assumptions about my politics that are unfounded. Hence, I think you and Sirota have something small in common.
“The experience of the Depression helped forge a consensus that the government bears the important responsibility of trying to stabilize the economy and the financial system, as well as of assisting people affected by economic downturns,” he said.
And your quote above from Bernanke? It echos the findings of the CBO report, where the majority (64%) of the monies will be spent within the first two years and trickle down to under 2% per year after only 5 years.
And given the evidence, mainly the support of a poorly disguised revisionist theory of the New Deal, you fit every other willfully ignorant Republican around.
"As for Republicans comparing Sarah to Hillary; A) I haven’t seen it yet and B) it wouldn’t be insulting for Republicans to compare Palin to Clinton, it would be downright stupid and an insult to Palin."
and a little name calling:
"I just would like to remind all of you head-up-your-ass-blame-Bush-for-deregulation-morons "
And your incredible stupidity here:
"I’ve become more skeptical about government numbers over the years and I look at this revision as suspect. But I will have to say that the economy doesn’t look or feel nearly as bad as 1983. Things were really tough then."
Yeah, you're the guy that everyone should pay attention to. Right.
So let me take you to school. I've read Bernanke and his position, like Friedman, is that the major problem with the economy in the 30's was a matter of monetary policy - not enough liquidity in the system - poor regulation - all exacerbated by bad trade policy. He didn't think FDR's New Deal was much of a factor but does give FDR some credit. Friedman agreed with him.
Bernanke:
"own view is that the New Deal is better characterized as having "cleared the way" for a natural recovery (for example, by ending deflation and rehabilitating the financial system), rather than as being the engine of recovery itself."
Notice how it's monetary policy here.
Secondly - I'm a small l libertarian - if you need to know. And I've been one for long time. But that has nothing to do with the conversation.
But all I proposed here was a bit of caution. I haven't advocated tax cuts, government spending, or anything. Not here or on my "pathetic little blog." (considering you picked a quote that's 6 months old and I was saying that I didn't believe the Bush administration numbers on 2nd quarter growth.
But since you're so fast and loose with lots of money how about buying me dinner (I'll bring the kids too.) After than I'll give you a nickel you can argue with since all you want to do is cast aspersions. Give it a rest.
But we were prosperous in the 50's because the all of the other industrialized countries had their manufacturing infrastructure blown up by bombs. We had great export markets and great factories to build things. But if you'll look closely, we're still paying off WWII debt.
a recovery plan that will help to jumpstart the economy
BARACK OBAMA, JANUARY 9 , 2009
http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/cato_stimulus.pdf
"A majority of economist think that FDR's programs actually prolonged the Depression. I'll can give you a mountain of citations if you would like to know more."
is supported only by the far right wing of politics as a revisionary tactic. It is happening fast now because most of the "greatest generation" are a foot in the grave and don't really get to defend the era.
Just look who makes the same claim about FDR and the New Deal, all the people who ignored our current crisis, jumped on the "tax cuts for the rich" bandwagon and laughed at people like Krugman that predicted the oncoming economic crash, even going so far as to point out that the repackaging of low-interest or zero-interest loans into unrecognizable, almost untraceable assets was going to cause a financial meltdown. Do you really want to throw your lot in with them?
Anything a Republican claims, at this point, is enough to know that the opposite is probably true. A Republican says that the sky is blue? Better get out your raincoat, because there is about to be a downpour. Same thing goes for Walt Minnick's claims. They're about as truthful as anything his idiot predecessor ever came up with.
Revisionism is pathetic, sad and kills kittens. Why do you want to kill kittens, Max?
Kittens are tasty treats and go very well with a nice shiraz.
But it's interesting that even neo-Keynesians (that's a joke) like Alice Revlin - the liberal ex-Fed Vice-Chair - think that the stimulus package that came out of the house is a disaster. She said last week:
"In testimony before the House Budget Committee yesterday, Alice M. Rivlin, who was President Bill Clinton's budget director, suggested splitting the plan, implementing its immediate stimulus components now and taking more time to plan the longer-term transformative spending to make sure it is done right.
"Such a long-term investment program should not be put together hastily and lumped in with the anti-recession package. The elements of the investment program must be carefully planned and will not create many jobs right away," said Rivlin, a fellow at the Brookings Institution. The risk, she said, is that "money will be wasted because the investment elements were not carefully crafted."
Here is her testimony:
http://www.brookings.edu/testimony/2009/0127_budget_rivlin.aspx
I'm not an economist and have never claimed to be one. In my professional capacity, however, I read economic analysis three or four hours each weekday. I understand the various arguments for and against stimulus but I'm unconvinced that any level of government spending will create demand.
Spend some time and research "peak credit". The ostensible reason for a stimulus package is to increase jobs though increased demand. But the social mood, after a few decades of borrowing and indulging our collective material appetite has changed. Consumers have gone through a quantum shift where now they look to reducing debt and building savings. That, in the long term is the "medicine" that we need for a strong economic footing.
Notice how much talk there is about increasing credit and increasing demand. The problem is that there is a large reduction in demand for credit. And isn't it true that too much demand and too much credit is what has caused this problem? This downturn is going to be a doozy but the question remains: does economic stimulus paid for with debt deliver a positive outcome for the long term? Answer that question and I'll take you more seriously.
In the mean time most of us should have a hellava lot more questions than we have answers.
Ben Stein on Farris Bueller’s Day Off on Smoot Hawley’s disastrous results which Obama would like to revisit via “Buy American”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s-oGumvPz0
Jay must have also slept through this lecture.
Under the heading of good policy from FDR was the reduction in tariffs and the end of prohibition. Credit where credit is due and all that rot.
Individuals choosing to buy American = great idea
Forcing business to buy American = trade war = declines in productivity