resort economy
In Montana, Bitterroot Resort Rides Out Volatile Market
Since it was first proposed in 2005, the Bitterroot Resort has weathered community controversy, several rejections from the Forest Service for use of nearby public lands and, now, a volatile resort market that has others tumbling. But CEO Tom Maclay has been patient -- and that might just pay off.By Matthew Frank, 8-06-08
Photos by Anne Medley
While high-end developments around the West collapse under the weight of huge debt loads the slumping housing market can't support, the planned Bitterroot Resort south of Missoula, having yet to tap investors and with little built infrastructure, appears to be in position to ride out the slow down.
As rancher-turned-resort CEO Tom Maclay said Tuesday, "It's very good to be standing outside of that."
Money spent so far on planning, public relations, carving runs on private land, retaining top-flight resort manager Jim Gill has all been "internal," Maclay says, made possible by "a few land sales" and "good bankers."
Of course, the resort is still mired in a three-year back-and-forth permitting process with the Forest Service. Maclay hopes to gain access to public lands beneath Lolo Peak. But even if the Forest Service rejects the latest proposal, tweaked to account for lynx and elk, the resort will almost certainly be built, Maclay said.
The proposal seeks 3,000 acres of Forest Service land (down from the 12,000 originally requested in 2005 -- see map at right) for gladed skiing, Nordic skiing, guided touring and mountain biking, none of which would require ski lifts to access. The ski lifts, reaching about 6,000 feet, are planned to be only on Maclay's land.
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But will real estate generate enough money to cover, using Gill's estimates, more than $100 million in skiing infrastructure and a resort village that could cost just as much? Maclay and Gill are convinced it will. Maclay cites the "embedded demand" in the resort market and said, "We're surrounded by 150,000 people who want to live here."
Using real estate to finance ski and golf resorts is a common model, but it doesn't always work, according to William Marks, an analyst covering real estate and leisure services with JMP Securities. "If a ski resort is financed from the sale of lots, the developer better look into how profitable the ski area can be with people not using their homes all the time." It can lead "to a ski resort that could consistently disappoint down the road."
Of the 12 lots already sold, six of which have been built upon, about half of the buyers are Montanans and half from out of state, some of whom are real estate investors, Maclay said. He expects that trend to continue. If it does, the problem of absentee homeowners may apply.
Despite the credit crunch and the struggles among projects of similar scale in the West, Maclay is in talks with potential investors. He said one effect of the downturn is that it "brings only quality institutions forward."
"We're on many people's radar," he said.
But, incidentally, not Credit Suisse's -- that's the international investment bank that loaned $250 million-plus to Tamarack Resort in Idaho and Promontory Club in Utah, both of which defaulted and filed for bankruptcy protection. "I’m sure they'd return my call if I called," Maclay said.
Last fall, Arkansas-based ANB Financial’s new branch in Jackson, Wyoming, courted Maclay, but he didn’t bite. Regarding the negotiations he would only say, "It was not the right fit at the right time." (In May, the U.S. Comptroller of the Currency shut down ANB Financial, calling it undercapitalized and saying it used unsafe and unsound practices.)
"(Maclay's) being very cautious, going slow, trying to make good decisions," Gill said. Asked if financing will be sought upon approval of a Forest Service special-use permit, Maclay said, "It's too early to say, but everthing's on the table."
At this point, the pace of the project, especially the construction of the village and golf courses, is "simply market driven," Maclay said.
With the permitting process still in flux and the market floundering, Maclay appears content to -- and thankful that he can -- wait it out. "It can't not work out," he said.
As Gill said, "You try to set yourself up for when things start picking back up again."
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Comments
Of course, that is smart, very smart. As a third-generation Montanan, Mr. Maclay knows that we don't welcome out-of-state folks swooping in with a big dog and pony show, make a bucket load of cash, and leave us to deal with the impacts on local infrastructure. If we knew who was going to be his business partner, then we might ask them to fund the major road/water/sewer projects that will inevitably be need for his residential development.
I have seen very very good stories from Matthew Frank before, and I wonder who gave him this assignment because it's shamelessly pro-business and anti our back yards. That's right.
Told from the perspective of Tom Maclay --cast as an underdog developer facing the giant tide of unsucessful mega-ski developments-- this story reads like a watered-down wall street journal story. It begs us to identify with the developer. Nowhere does it mention anyone's back yard.
What about the story of out of wealthy out-of-state landowners and huge private companies who've taken advantage of a persecutionist tax structure to permanently alter the very landscape that's supposed to attract their customers? How about the social impact --not to mention the drastic depletions in water supply that will occur in what is currently a closed-basin-- of several-hundred unit developments on the magnificent Bitterroot Valley.
This kind of pro-business framing of major issues is something I won't stand for. Not like this, and not in MY BACK YARD.
I sit on top of my apartment building on Beckwith, and with my range finders I can see down to the Bitterroot Valley, and I see the growth, the eyesore, the SOILED BACKYARD.
Then, believe you me, I aim my range finders north to the area where the old post and Newwest's office is, kind of by the Courthouse. And I can only see the Courthouse, but in my mind, I think about the Newwest office, and how you guys framed this story in a way that hides the objectionalities of a most preposterous thing.
No Bitterroot Resort. Not in OUR back yard.
Because we care, that's why.
it's all reported and nicely tucked away where any ninny can find it.
talk about a fluff piece. Maclay should get down on his knees and thank that judge and all who have fought him on this pipe dream or the ranch would be in receivership by now.
by the way, when just firing up the old bulldozer and pushing federal land around to his liking didn't work he hired public relations firms to try smooth it all over. I guess it was money well spent since Mr Frank managed to swallow all this up to the barrell swivel. Maclay was patient my xxx! He's lucky concerned citizens stood up to his topographical looney tunes.
That kind of complacency will get you a tram to the top of Lolo Peak before you know it.
Folks may view this a a pro-business fluff piece, but the underlying message is clear: Maclay and the resort proposal are not going away. Let me ask a question- if Maclay builds on his own land and builds the 2500 suites and condos at the base, do you think those 2500 individual owners will be for or against lift access in the National Forest? Will their voices drown out the relatively few vocal opponents of the resort? They might. Each of those owners, after all, will have a vested financial interest in their slopeside condo at a 2600 vertical foot resort turning into a slopeside condo at a 5,000 vertical foot resort. The current proposal for gladed skiing is nothing but a foot in the door to a larger scale proposal later down the line.
Probably was nice 20 years ago.
The cow is out of the barn folks, good luck.
jg
The bottom line is that he does not care for Montana.
He has proliferated for far too long.
Thanks, NW, for the fluff piece on him. Before doing any more articles on him, please research his legal issues from the past 3+ decades. See what he has done to the place he 'loves'.
I am anti-development...I am anti-Maclay development of the Bitterroot Resort.
The Bitterroot Resort has never been anything but a real estate development opportunity for out-of-state "investors." Tom Maclay doesn't care about the health of a national forest. He cares about the wealth of his pocketbook, which, when all is said and done, will be very, very small.
Susan Reneau
The Missoula area needs a facelift. If I thought a resort wasn't going to happen, I would have moved yesterday. I spend my money at local businesses, grocery stores, gas stations. I pay local contractors and plumbers to work on my house. I pay local taxes to fix the roads, city parks and public schools. I want to see positive growth in the greater Missoula Metropolitan area. Folks, we don't live in a rural area. Missoula is a large Montana city and it's only going to get bigger. Don't you think we should plan for growth, instead of fighting it and ignoring a mess of unplanned sprawl? We don't need anymore strip clubs, bars or casinos. How about more healthy outdoor recreation?
Bozeman is half the size of Missoula and there are 4 large ski areas within an hour. Missoula has one ski area which is trying to expand because it is not big enough for the amount of snowriders in the area. I want a ski pass to both resorts. Just think how great the snow would be at Snowbowl if it weren't so crowded! Competition between resorts is great! This is how businesses grow and make improvements...ex. new chair lifts. Bozeman was recently listed as one of the top 50 best communities to live in, all due to outdoor recreation.
A resort would be one step closer to a cleaner, more prosperous Missoula. Don't turn your heads at the transients and homeless in town. Look at it. Smell them. Let's clean our town up and make it safe for women to walk to get a coffee or take a stroll by the river. Let's build a better public transportation system for commuters and cheaper flights out of the Missoula airport. More jobs would be created at a more competitive salary. Maybe graduates from the University wouldn't pick up and move...they would have a chance to stay in the city that they have grown to love and pay back their school loans on Missoula wages. If one company offers a better wage, so will other companies to keep good employees...it's called competition. Right now, the average college student will accept working for $7. What business owner would pay more, if people are willing to work for that salary? No wonder many people have more than one job.
Positive and planned growth needs to happen in our valley. Otherwise we will be the next Billings. At least housing is cheaper in Billings.
Patience and smart planning is necessary. I can guarantee to all of you, the cows are gone at the Bitterroot Resort.
Remember...the few people that are activists against development are strong, well-knitted into the community, and they are the loudest and most aggressive voices out there. It's amazing that most of the letters to the editors in our local papers, are all originated from the same environmental activist group. It's amazing to me, how organized and time committed they are in submitting letters and opinions. Just a new name from the same group gets an assignment each week. Did you know there are 36 environmental organizations in the city of Missoula banding together? That's more than most states!
The majority of the supporters of a planned recreational resort are far too busy working and making an honest living to form a group or club to express their excitement of the future. The supporters are the most quiet voice. They are anticipating and dreaming of visions of a brighter future for their businesses, families and quality of life. Don't be fooled. Western Montana is saturated with healthy people in favor of more developed recreation.
My fingers are crossed and my smile bright.
Mr. Maclay is welcome to try and get his housing development going on his land, but having a real estate developer take over public land that blocks everyone else except those in his development is against what our National Forest System is all about as created by Theodore Roosevelt and Gifford Pinchot.
Simply because Maclay developes scans of ski runs down a mountain and a ski village doesn't mean that development will be planned. Taxpayers will foot the bill for roads, emergency medical, firefighters, and all the other social services necessary to pay for such a development that isn't off-set by the taxes paid when new houses go up or a lease is paid to the Forest Service for use of their lands by the likes of a real estate developer.
I've seen your letters in the press many times before. You stand clear and strong with the same belief...every time.
I've explored Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, California and a small region in Alaska and I've noticed Montana has some of the most difficult public lands access. Most of my favorite adventures are a full day to full week endevour. Boy, it sure would be nice if a resort did go in to make our access easier.
I would like to know where people get the idea that our public access will be closed? It's wide open. It will only be easier to access your favorite trails. Trails for everyone from hikers, biker to horseback riders, etc. There are 134 ski areas in the Nation on Forest Service Land (according to Geraldine Link of the National Ski Areas Association). It actually works out kind of neat. Check this out, the community benefits from having developed recreation, yet the Forest Service gets paid from the leasee of the land. Not only is the forest getting some extra loving from the leasee's of the land, but the forest service gets extra funding to better manage the land. It's a win-win. We get to play and the Forest Service gets money to better care for our forests.
It would also be nice to have decent skiing nearby. I drive to Fernie, Whitefish, Lost Trail, Discovery and Big Sky to get good snow with little crowds. And to all of you concerned about the environment, that means unnecessary fossil fuels in your air. If you ask around, I'm not the only one that would rather drive for two hours.
Our community of Missoula, as large as it is, is going to continue to grow. Why not be apart of a plan rather than fight something that will happen no matter what. I'm sure with community support, the community might actually get what they want. It will either be public or private. Forest Service Permit = Public Resort/No Forest Service Permit = Private Resort. Either hop on board and help to make good decisions or prepare yourself for the world of Hummers driving through the Bitterroot. Please set your emotional opinions aside and think about Western Montana's future.
People like to comment on ski slopes "raping" the land. We'll I'd like to say those Bitterroot Resort ski slopes sure do look nice and green from the highway in early spring and summer. I'll bet it's good eatin' for the critters too. It's funny, every time I go to Big Sky, Sun Valley, Jackson Hole and Telluride I seem to see more Elk, Deer, Moose and Big Horn sheep than a day at Yellowstone National Park. Seems pretty silly to me to see all those creatures enjoying the golf courses, ski runs and freshly planted landscaping when "greedy" humans (as some say) have developed those resorts, doesn't it!
I've read a lot lately about concerns with forest fires and tree-thinning vs. letting it burn. I can admit, I'm no forest specialist, but I would think thinning out some of the forest would help reduce fuel for summer fire season. Didn't smart logging in the past minimize our gigantic 100 year fire cycle? Oh, not to forget about all the jobs that have been lost lately in the logging and timber industry.
Remember when a few members of the community fought the building of the Missoula baseball park? It looks to me like families sure enjoy watching Osprey games. Damn developers building a baseball park!
It seems as everyone against the Bitterroot Resort is very vocal and emotional in their arguments. To all of you out there in support of more recreation, better access to Forest Service trails and in need of a better economy, please voice your opinion too! If you have questions, educate yourself before getting all fired up. I am trying to do just that.
I would like to be able to recreate, live and make a living right here in Western Montana.
Public lands were accessible 20 years ago, they will be accessible today, and accessible for the next 500 years. Oh, by the way Susan, the trails will be accessible to Japanese, Germans and Swedes too. Whomever may want to enjoy Montana.
PS. There's a thing called resort tax. It will help with your monetary worries. It seems to work in thousands of resort towns Nation-wide.
A resort tax wouldn't begin to off-set the cost of a resort if it ever gets started. Salaries in a ski town (I'm from Colorado originally) do not pay for the increased cost of living that is stimulated when a ski resort goes in. In Colorado, locals can't afford to pay the taxes on their properties that have been in their families for more than a century as Avon and Vail expanded. Part-time residents that buy expensive ski resort mansions will only come periodically and rent their mansion out to tourists that have no investment in the community and no interest in supporting that which makes our community in the Bitterroot special.
The cost to pave roads, hire extra police and firefighters, increase hospital bed space, etc. would all be supported with increased property tax of existing residents that also are the ones to contribute to local charities and churches, etc.
Interest in skiing is declining nationwide and real estate sales for McMansions are declining. I frankly don't see this project ever getting off the ground without the original landowner going bankrupt.
I can tell all the Anti's in town are getting nervous, hence the hurt feelings and anger in the writing.
I know many emergency folk, including fireman who would love a raise in taxes, so they can actually protect the growth from the last 10 years. As now, there's a shortage. So it's a good thing to make a point of.
Every ski town I've lived in has paid 3x as much as the wages in Missoula.
No matter who does it or when...a resort is going in. The forest service had a plan back in the 60's in which the majority of the population was in favor of. It's only a matter of time.
And you whack-ass chauncified pro-develper propogandsists at newwest are pushing this?
Bought-out punks.
You buldozing-business-mongers need to stop letting your advertisers in on your editorial meetings; it's like Weeds in a Flower bed if you've ever brushed up on your alice-in-wonderland (which I think you have, thinking of how fantasy-like your vision of bennevolent developers is).
Sell-outs.
No wonder this story took the pro-business, pro-developer slant, considering its ownership and much of its writer and editorial staff are out-of-state transplants, also known as posers. What with your cliche-ass adds, looking like they're right out of Flathead Living or the Big Sky Journal. And your chauncified ".net" niftiness. Why not just ".com" like every other online for-profit venture out there?
Oh... oh... I'm sorry, I forgot: you guys are diffferennnt. Right.
Moral wasteoids.
And what's with this Matthew Frank? The only thing he's being frank about, is that these developers have our media outlets covered. That is clear.
I'm out.
Whut.
[Superadhominem pushes over the podium, which crashes to the stage floor as he struts off stage, kicking a bystander out of raw frustration with the MAN. It's clear, he totally MEANT every word he said against these trash talkers. Catch more of his neccesary drift at superadhominem.wordpress.com]
No, the Forest Service has rejected this project from the get go and I expect the project will again get rejected.
We only have to look to Marshall Mountain near Missoula for another example of a failed ski resort and Lolo is much lower in elevation. This isn't Avon, Vail or Jackson Hole. We don't have the elevation, the water, or the snow.
We wanted to write a story to update the economic situation of Bitterroot Resort in light of the market forces that have a number of high-end resorts in the West in bankruptcy court. (We did a roundup of them in the New West magazine, here.)
It appears to be true, as reported in the story -- and with the resort's environmental and cultural consequences aside -- that the resort is in a better situation today because it didn't get in over its head with massive loans the real estate market can't support, a la Tamarack Resort. We think it's important for the community to know what's going on with the resort financially because, as Tamarack and others have shown, the finances of a project like this can have big impacts on the communities around it.
We also think it's news that Maclay is committed to building a resort even if he can't gain access to public lands, that the permit is less of a hinge going forward than the real estate market.
None of this, we don't think, has to do with us being pro- or anti-development. And I would hope reporting on it doesn't make us "bought-out punks," as one commenter just put it. We see the Bitterroot Resort as a big story for our communities, one that will have big impacts on what happens here and so we're trying to give Missoula and the valley the most information we can -- whether that be news about the business aspects of the project, or as we have in the past (see here, here, here, here and here) the environmental, cultural and economic aspects as well.
Of course, you're free to debate all of this, just please refrain from vulgarity and personal attacks. Thanks.
Matt
I also hope that New West asks hard questions and explores another pressing problem that is related at the National Bison Range where a sovereign nation has been given inherently federal positions (scientistic and technical tasks common throughout the federal lands systems under the Civil Service Commission) and do not have anyone to do the work. Federal works are asking for transfers because the work climate has become so negative. The sovereign nation doesn't plan to send any workers until late spring of 2009 but their agreement contract begins October 1 so a big questions is, "Who will get the $800,000 plus dollars to do the work and who will do the work?"
The National Bison Range is a federal national wildlife refuge begun by President Theodore Roosevelt to preserve the last of the northern plains wild bison. The bison at the National Bison Range are sent to national parks, private lands, and national wildlife refuges because they are almost genetically pure and disease-free.
The Bitterroot Resort is another example of special interest group that wants to take over control of federal public lands and exclude others from access and control. We as taxpayers bought national wildlife refuges as well as national parks and we should have a say in how OUR money is spent.
I for one do not object to the Bitterroot Resort developing their land but I want their hands off of the Bitterroot and Lolo National Forests. They do not have an intension of helping the land improve for timber harvests or recreation.
Anyone who thinks the "resort" is about skiing is foolish, and obviously is a typical Yuppie Transplant who doesn't know diddly about the region. The "resort" is way too low in elevation to hold snow -- natural OR man-made. Why do you fools think Marshall Mountain went belly-up?
Maclay's vision is the same as the vision behind Charles Schwab's Stock Farm, and the Triple Creek Ranch on the West Fork of the Bitterroot River. It's to create a millionaire's paradise in the middle of rural Montana, for maximum profit. Maclay doesn't give a damn about impacts on the community surrounding his "resort" -- he is completely unlike his father and grandfather in this respect. He is basically a spoiled little child, who never has had to work a day in his life. His role on the family ranch has been to simply use family money to buy expensive ranch machinery to show off his wealth. He doesn't work. He doesn't know how to work.
If you yuppies love Maclay's "resort" so much -- then move to Vail, or Aspen, or Whistler, or some other place. Stop converting our beautiful region into McSame McMountain McResort. We don't need it, we don't want it.
And I haven't even begun to mention Maclay's ILLEGAL acts in furtherance of this "resort" idea of his.
Go back to your cities, Yuppie Transplants. Go live your phony dream somewhere else.
NewWest encourages pro-business, pro-yuppie, pro-development commentary, particularly from the perspective of the Yuppie Transplant Egomaniac who has disdain for the "stupid redneck natives" who are "backward" and "against progress."
Since you want Missoula and its surrounds to become like some other place, I suggest you move to that place, and stop demanding that Missoula change for Beth Tyler.
You're arrogant, condescending, and pathetic.
no, of course this isn't going to be built. if you have an interest in surviving, i would start working on the logistics of that rather than worrying about this sorry pipe dream. i've said it before and i must say it again. i love the smell of smoldering developers- god help me but i do love it so.
I follow compass points. "upper" to me is north. always has been. you can laugh at me for it, you can mock me, you can try to enlighten me -- but none of those things has any bearing on what I had to say about the arrogance, grandiosity and illegal behavior of Tom Maclay, nor about the exceedingly short-sighted and selfish posts of Beth Tyler.
it's very childish of you to point out such a pointless point, because whether Maclay's development is a good idea doesn't turn on my preference of using "upper" to describe the north end.
and yes of course I know which way it flows. I spend plenty of time in its headwaters, both East and West Forks.
Your venomous attack on Tom Maclay's personal character (i.e., "spoiled little child", etc. ) was simply tasteless. Even if you think he has hair-brained ideas that you disagree with common decency would prevent most people from slinging mud around like this... but not in your case! You might want to try to behave with a little class next time you decide to make a criticism of another's viewpoint too. It is fine that you do not want this resort to succeed but you needn't drag the debate into such a nasty place. Hell, I am really somewhat ambivalent about the resort for a variety of reasons so I am not here as an advocate or critic of the Bitterroot Resort per se.
Get over your anger problem (this is painfully evident that you are suffering) and welcome your new neighbors of all backgrounds, opinions and experiences! They are here to stay.
I don't know who you're describing there. I didn't say I was a "native" -- I'm complaining about predatory practices.
The other bits of your post are directed at a stereotype that you seem to find bothersome. If that works for you in your life, that's great. But it has nothing to do with this thread, its primary topic, or the problem of Tom Maclay's illegal acts and selfish motives.
The bits about "tastelessness" and all the rest of your high-hat attitude are quite hypocritical and ironic. You seem to think that money and some form of politeness = superiority. Perhaps they are in your small circle of friends.
I'd wonder about your stake in all this, elfman. Are you an investor? Maybe a prospective "luxury home" buyer? Someone who is eager to work as a groundskeeper at the "luxury" golf course?
You think yourself clever and your condescension is ironic, given the attack you have levelled at me.
++++++++++++++++++
David Cardiff --
You, too, are skilled at attacking strawmen. In your view only out-of-work people would complain about Maclay's "resort." How naive. I work. As do all of my friends. In estatblished jobs, jobs that do not need the sorts of servant-labor positions that Maclay deigns to offer the residents of Lolo. There is nothing positive about Maclay's plan, unless you are an investor, or unless you plan to live on his "resort."
So I'll guess that like elfman, you have a stake in seeing it succeed.
Best of luck to you and elfman. And please keep congratulating Maclay on his illegal deeds!
You make demands such as "Go back to your cities, Yuppie Transplants. Go live your phony dream somewhere else." So, exactly what "kind" of transplant are you if you are not a "native"? You certainly implied you were a native but, again, to me it does not matter in the least. Every American has the right to purse their dream here. Demographics will inevitably change and the community will change. It happens everywhere. Sorry bud. That is life. The place I grew up is now unrecognizable to me. What am I going to do... sit around and bitch about it or try to live a good life?! Remember back when only Indians lived here? Well, the demographics changed when white people moved in. Then, the community changed dramatically. The Indians might wish to say to YOU... "Since you want Missoula and its surrounds to become like some other place, I suggest you move to that place, and stop demanding that Missoula change..." Does that sound a little familiar? It should. Now do you see where the hypocrisy truly lies? If not, look down... it is square at your feet.
You say that the rest of my post is directed at some unidentified stereotype? Uh... okay. That really makes no sense. First, I pointed out the freedoms that we have in this country and that you (nobody else... just you) fail to respect them. You are apparently willing to scorn and discriminate against someone who is young and "upwardly mobile". Naturally, this made me wonder what kind of derogatory labels you might place on others who live in your backyard. If there is anyone throwing around stereotypes here it is you. Anyway, secondly.... I pointed out that your personal attacks on Tom Maclay are simply tasteless. To that you respond with the accusation that I suggested that money and politeness equates to superiority. I did nothing of the sort. Money does not buy class... you either have it or you don't. As for politeness... I was referring (as I said) to common decency, a fringe benefit of a quality upbringing (NOTHING to do with money). My comments also have nothing to do with superiority... only with being a respectable member of society no matter the size of your bank account.
By the way, since you "ask"... no, I am not an investor of any sort in the Maclay development. I am just a resident of Lolo who, again, does not really care one way or another whether the resort is successful, public or private. Trying to label me as an "investor" brings to light your desperation. Once again, I really do not care about it but there are others in this community who want the resort to happen who are NOT investors or stakeholders. Cardiff is correct that there are much more important problems in the world at present but felt I must call you out here because I detest lowlife attempts at anonymous character assassination such as you have displayed. In some way, however, it is not your fault... you simply have no class.
You again create a stereotype and ascribe it to me. You're wrong. You've never met me. You don't know a doggone thing about me. Your erroneous guesses demonstrate as much.
I am posting here as a counter to the article, and to make observations about Tom Maclay's motives and tactics, and to counter the obvious profiteering/social engineering posts of Beth Tyler.
Maclay seeks only to get rich, consequences be damned. You can call me "no class" for observing this, but it's true -- whether it's "classless" or not, it is true. Sometimes the truth is somewhat impolite. And sometimes the obscurant lies offered in place of truth, given politely, are immoral and sociopathic. So I'd not be too proud of the approach you're using here, elfman. It's not very honest.
Tyler seeks only to convert Missoula to Vail (or similar), and the consequences be damned. She makes that clear with her posts discussing her various travels to "resort" towns, and she avows admiration of those towns. It's really quite simple for people like Tyler -- if they want Vail, they can live in Vail. Or Whistler. Or Whitefish. Or Sun Valley.
Once the Lolo Peak area is converted to a "luxury resort," the region will have been forever changed for the worse. None of the arguments offered in favor of the "resort" show benefit to anyone in the region, long-term, unless they are investors or residents of the "luxury homes" on the "resort."
The skiing will be a failure due to lack of elevation and too-warm temperatures. The golf course is not needed, as the region has many and none is at max capacity. Not only that, the golf course will dewater Carlton Creek and deplete water in the Bitterroot River -- a first-class trout fishery, which depends on sufficient water. And the golf course will pour insecticides and pesticides into the water table, and into Carlton Creek, and into the Bitterroot River -- further injuring the fishery.
The luxury homes are disproportionate -- the only people who could afford them are millionaires who don't work and contribute to the local economy in any way but buying a "luxury home" and paying their "servants" to clean up after them.
What confuses me is how you can claim to be a lifelong resident of Lolo and not see the region as unique and worthy of preservation.
Perhaps you should travel a bit, elfman. See what happens to places that get over-developed by "luxury resorts," and see the long-term impacts.
Since you cannot find any way to counter my points, you resort to a fake-polite form of put-down ("no class").
That says all anyone needs to know about your posts, and your perspective.
I'm sure you'll come back with another barrage of cheap ad hominem attacks on a scarecrow version of what you imagine to be me, my perspective, and the views of those who are opposed to Maclay's "resort." I guess that's all you have -- invective, offered as a polite put-down of stereotypes.
I find it all pretty sad.
It is clear to me that you are prepared to perpetuate this little "debate" to no end or at least until you get the last word. So, I am prepared to give you the last word following this post. Enjoy.
You keep trying to debate with me as to whether the resort should happen or not. I am not here to debate that issue and I will not because I do not care one way or another. Part me loves it. Part of me hates it. In fact... if anything, most of me doesn't want it to happen but that is completely beside the point. I am not here to debate that. Enough said on that issue.
I never referred to you as "no class" for holding strong opinions about whether this resort should fly. Again, I referred to you as "no class" because the only way you can think to fight this thing is by casting mean-spirited aspersions against a man many of us know to be a very good person who has faced many of the same challenges as all of us. Again, you may not agree with his development attempts but why not stick to the true issues at hand and leave the personal attacks out of it. You are correct in that I do not know a "doggone thing" about you OTHER than what you post here. However, what you have posted here speaks volumes of your character.
Also, I never claimed to be a lifelong resident of Lolo. I have lived here approximately 15 years and I moved here from the southeastern US... a place where when I was a child we enjoyed riding our bikes down the red dirt road to and old railroad trestle where we would throw out a bobber and a worm and be content for hours upon hours to skip rocks, catch bream and enjoy nature for what it is... or was. On the way home we would stop off at an old cinder block built store (the same place we bought our worms on the way out) for a coke and some candy. Now that old red dirt road is paved, widened and used to access countless lakefront homes that once used to be vacant lots filled with trees, frogs and the occasional deer passing through. The old cinder block store is now gone and there is a strip mall in its place with all the usual big box stores. Things change, man... especially when humans are breeding at the rate we are. I would love to "preserve" what we have but the exponentially increasing population will inevitably cause clash after clash like this as to what should happen here, there and everywhere in between. Does that mean I do not wish to preserve what we can? No. However, I am powerless to stop this incessant breeding. If you want to fight what you see as the "good fight" then you should do exactly that... however, if you wish to do so you should strive to do it in a manner that is respectful to others.
You have suggested that I travel? Hmmm... let's see: I have lived in Alabama, North Carolina, California, Florida, and Montana. I have been fortunate enough to have traveled to almost every country in Europe. I have been to Mexico, Brazil, Canada, the Caribbean and many other places around the globe. I have lived in the boonies and I have lived in very, very big cities. I have lived in resort areas and I have lived on an Indian reservation in Eastern Montana... the equivalent of a third world country. I think you might be the one who needs to get out a little.
How incredibly audacious of you to refer to me as "invective". "...He is basically a spoiled little child, who never has had to work a day in his life..." Your words. Perhaps you should pick up a dictionary. You are just trying to backpedal your way out of this and it is not working. Your words are posted above and they are not going anywhere (unless New West decides to remove them). Keep pedaling and enjoy your last pathetic word. You cannot get yourself out of this one. You have been served.
And then there are his official comments to the Forest Service asking that the Research Natural Area be open to snowmobile use and that the high basin below Lolo Peak and adjacent public lands on Carlton Ridge be managed under a allocation that allows all forms of motorized recreation and timber cutting (all of this in a 16,000 acre inventoried Roadless Area abutting the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness.)
What about public support for the resort? Two years ago the Forest Service conducted a public comment period during their Forest Management Plan Revision process. Over 1000 citizens sent in comments specifically addressing the future of Lolo Peak and Carlton Ridge. The large number of comments was in part spurred by numerous full page advertisements from the resort asking citizens to comment in favor of development. 80% of those comments asked the agency to keep the 12,000 acres of public land just the way it is – no resort development. 1 in 5 wanted the resort to move forward. This past spring, Off the Grind magazine, a western Montana snowboarder/skier publication polled their readership about the resort’s use of public land and 58% of those skiers and snowboarders said no. The Confederated Salish & Kootenai Tribes this year passed a resolution calling for the protection of Lolo Peak and Carlton Ridge and opposing the development of the Bitterroot resort there. Trout Unlimited and Hellgate Hunters & Anglers opposes the resort's use of public lands. So does Mayor John Engen and a host of City Council members. Former Regional Forester and two former Forest Supervisors think it's a bad idea. The bigger question is, who really supports it besides the obvious real estate brokers, construction engineers and consultants and anyone else in line to make a profit from it? After more than 4 years the Missoula Chamber of Commerce is yet to officially support the resort’s development of public lands. Additionally, the resort’s own market analysis lists public opposition to the plan as one of the resort's central weaknesses.
The resort is not needed. The FS did a "Needs Analysis" and found that the six ski areas already operating within a 100 miles of Lolo, MT. are operating at an average of 25% of their capacity, clearly able to accommodate many more skiers should they come. Remember "growth for growths sake" is the ideology of the cancer cell.
Do you hunt? well you can forget about hunting white-tail deer and elk on those public lands because it is common for the FS to prohibit hunting in high-use recreation areas including ski areas for the obvious reasons of public safety and to protect facilities. We know that the bitterroot resort doesn't really care because their CEO said that the hunters have lots of other places to hunt. The resorts Mater Plan (make no mistake, they are after the whole 12,00 acres) develops elk winter range and a major carnivore corridor as outlined by MFWP biologists.
There is so much more. Any one or group interested in learning more about this real estate development disguised as a ski resort call me at the Sierra Club office in Missoula. Remember, Lolo Peak is YOUR Mountain, will YOU give it away to developers?
I guess a consensus opinion of many long-time natives of this region is "no class," then.
Of all those references to Tom Maclay I've received from all those who have met him -- including several people who worked for the Maclay family -- the consensus is consistent. It is how I described him.
This bothers you. That's your problem.
It is obviously nothing Tom Maclay himself cares about. Which, incidentally, further encourages the accusation of arrogance -- his disdain for others is palpable.
His postcards sent out last year to convince people to support his "resort" were equal parts arrogance, lies, and distortions.
And you are here to rehabilitate him, for reasons unknown, for reasons you won't share. It doesn't matter. The consensus remains, Maclay's behavior confirms the consensus, and you dislike it being revealed in a thread created to discuss Maclay's plans. If this thread is about Maclay's plans, and the main essay about the same subject, then Maclay's motives and persona are directly in issue here, no matter whether your Genteel Southern perspective dislikes it.
I find it interesting that you hail from the SE USA. In my travels throughout the USA, the "South" is where the officious facade of polite dismissal originates, as an American cultural construct. Nowhere have I been more insulted with polite dismissal than in the South. It is the home of friendly-to-your-face, back-stabbing-when-not-there sorts of duplicity.
Not saying that's what you're using here.
Saying only that it's unsurprising that someone from the Southeastern USA would think it fine to call another "classless" while upholding the lies, illegal behavior, and arrogance of another. Not surprising at all.
If you're so concerned about "class," then maybe you ought to consider a blog at which you denigrate all of us heathens who don't measure up to the Genteel Southerner way of being duplicitous. I think it would be a big hit with the gang of people who support Tom Maclay's "resort." I'm sure Beth Tyler would love it. And the investment bankers backing Maclay's "resort" likely would bankroll the effort for you, maybe even hire a ghost-writer.
Enjoy your superiority, elfman. It really suits you. Especially when you use it to distract from the subject of this thread, and the primary essay -- a fraudulent perspective which portrays Tom Maclay and his investors as "victims".
Dali never painted surreality better.
It's over at the Ecoroving Blackbirds site, at:
ecorovingblackbirds.wordpress.com
Looks like white people caught up in they own wordspeak is what this is. Mhmm.
We cycle through "editor's pick" every few days, or depending on what's breaking and what stories warrant that spot. Then, they stories cycle through the "New West Features" box. The Bitterroot story was up as the top story for two full days and then in the New West features for another day before other stories flowed through and cycled it off those spots. There are numerous ways to find the story, including on the Development page (where it is still the editor's pick) or if you click on "more" right above the New West Features box, you'll get all the previous editor's picks. No censorship, just plain old news flow.
how about telling us how Beth Tyler is affiliated with Tom Maclay? you going to offer that sort of info too?
New West is pathetic -- it's basically a Neo-Yuppie Rag, a "boosterism" journal whose perspective reminds me of the fools in the novel "Babbitt" who surround and advise the titular character George Babbitt.
This is shown by the snark offered by Courteney Lowery in "polite" exposure/attack against Debby Jones.
Also, what is this crap about "white people"? What does any of this have to do with race?!
I'd love to discuss this in person with you at Charlie B's, but I'm sure you'd never show up. People in khakis and polo shirts tend to get bounced out of Chuck's pretty quickly, especially when they come walking in while talking on their cell phones in a loud, bragging voice.
I appreciate you plugging our blog though. We's been havin alot of honest conversation there. Not like on this site, where the pro-business Newwest folk, who got they asses called-out for a shameless pro-developoment piece, will retaliationize your ass for callin them out. But Courtney's ass triped right outathe gate.
Courtney Lowery's just whitefolk caught up in her own wordspeak's all that is. Girl caught on that several of us call shit like we's seeyin it, and tried to expose what her backward pro-business ayuss thought was one person. Mhmm. Don't you be havin' yo freinds blog from the same computer, or COURTNEY will EXPOSE YOU!! (Then why didn't you mention my son Craig, my cousin Whitney, or my friend Bobonbeckwith, who have blogged from this shared space before? Mhmm. They're all in on the secret-one-person conspiracy too!) She's tryin' to be Dick Cheney sellin out that pretty white girl Valerie Place, xxept, Courtney came out lookin a little like that Tricky Dick Nixon. Mhmm. (She ain't got no Kissinger brains like Dicky did's --Thats why she got caught making short-bus assumptions about one person being the same IP address; I fear for anyone who blogs from the university, or an internet cafe; don't you go challengin' the whitefolk pro-development wordspeak or she'll call all of you out! expose you as the same 130 or so university students as the same ass person.)
That's just backward-ass white folk caught up in her own wordspeak. Invesigative Reporter, Mhmm.
Investigatin how to defend her staff sellin out people's stake in public land's all that is. Ain't nobody cain't see that.
Mhmm. And I ain't afraid to plug MY blog neither, even though I ain't posted in a couple days, what with my son Craig not gettin hisself a job and all.
it's at debbyjones.wordpress.com
It's just honest conversation sister's all that is. Mhmm.
If you want to discuss this in person with me... meet me on the river between Florence and Lolo. I will be floating this afternoon and I will be taking out at the Maclay Ranch. Hahahaha!
"Khakis and polo shirts"? Boy, you sure are eager to buy into stereotypes. I have never been that much for such attire as I prefer jeans, flip flops and t-shirts but I really didn't come here to satisfy your vision as to how people should dress and act.
Again, if you want to talk about this in person you know where to find me today and, if you have any trouble, you can just call my cell phone. My guess is, however, that you are going to sit in front of your computer all day j_cking yourself off as you try to convince yourself that you are winning these ridiculous little arguments. Enjoy yourself!
I thought you guys were about community discussion? Jonathan Weber is over on ecoroving blackbirds referring to a blogger as a jerk and degrading the conversation simply because of the fierce criticism the blogger brought of this rather anti-conservationist article. I also saw your owner/publisher's degrading comments to Ecoroving Blackbird blogger Super Ad Hominem... wow? Do you guys have any shame? Wanting to stalk people and turn into big-brother popping people's IP addresses to fabricate false allegations that they're manipulating your website. Wow. I'm still stunned you mistakenly dug up one IP address and then use it to come after several people at once. That's something.
And to boot, your argument about moving the articles every five days from that editor's pick is something different than the truth. We saw it removed within 24 hours of all those comments mounting up. If an article is so popular, why move it off the front page and editor's favorites?
My goodness. This really is absurd.
I appreciate the fact that New West has tackled the story as it has in the past and I hope it will continue to tackle it.
What Tom Maclay does on his own private property is his business and will be based upon market conditions and local development restrictions and requirements. The portion of the resort on public land is the business of anyone that owns it, so that's everyone. We have a right to comment and are encouraged to do so.
I object strongly to the development of land on Bitterroot and Lolo National Forests and will remain that way. A real estate developer will become the "manager" of the public land and that is not a wise use of our resources.
What your looking for is a magazine called OLD WEST (I think this one is about progress) You've lived your life in the wide open spaces so cash out now and let your kids blow their inheritance. I'm coming to Montana with my skis and non native family. (I need a Walmart nearby also)
An honest effort at writing about something important in a clear fashion — while leaving out one's ego — is much harder than spraying opinions all over the "Comments" section.
No one article is going to cover all aspects of the issue; I'm just glad NW is writing about development, instead of letting it go forward without any discussion.
I love you people who think that staying "calm and rational" in all discussions is the ONLY way to be. That sort of emotional repression must go over like gangbusters in the real world outside these e-forums.
"Hey robot-man! How's it going! Gonna smile this year?"
"Nope, that is too hot-headed for me. Must be logical. Must be calm at all times. Please stop raising your voice at me."
"But robot-man, I'm not raising my voice. I'm just changing pitch."
"That's not how it sounds to robot-man. It sounds like anger and hot-bloodedness. You scare me. I fear emotion."
"Okay robot-man. Have a great ...errr, ahhh... I mean, have a day."