Just another example of Palin's destructive ignorance. In her latest episode, Palin rolled her eyes at a bear watching guide that was only carrying spray...check it out if you want to be infuriated.

Do you really think the readers of New West are likely to take advice from Sarah Palin?

"First, serious bear encounters are still extremely rare . . ."
One dead this year, several attacks on hunters each fall. Define, "serious." Dead?

It's legal to kill a grizzly in self-defense, so guns are a legitimate option in Alaska or Yellowstone National Park.

Canadian bear expert Stephen Herrero has never published any research showing that "a person's chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used."

Neither Herrero, nor BYU professor Tom Smith, have published any data on firearms vs. bears in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

There's no data on firearms in Herrero's 1999 paper on bear spray, or Smith and Herrero's more recent paper on bear spray use in Alaska by hikers, researchers, and other non-hunters.

Having said that, Kate Gosselin and Sarah Palin are both perfect examples of people who should use bear spray, not a firearm. It was obvious Kate Gosselin didn't want to touch a gun. Palin was willing, but incompetent. Both would have been better off with bear spray.

In particular, bear spray was a much safer option than a firearm in a camp filled with kids.

"Sarah Palin's Advice..." funniest three words I've read in a long time.

I'm not a fan of Sara Palin's political opinions but I can relate to her life style. Funny, the thing that I remember most about that episode is what a wimp Kate Gosselin turned out to be. I've been chased up trees by black and brown bears in Alaska and the lower 48 and I'd recommend that you carry a gun and know how to use it quickly when needed and carry bear spray to. If you don't value your life above a bear then don't carry anything or if you're dumb enough to risk it all just so you can be a politically correct wildlife lover then more power to you.

I payed $40 for a can of bear spray that has an effective range of 15 to 20 ft., empties in 9 seconds and the instructions say "stand upwind of the bear".
You people can't be serious.

I don't believe half of the bull crap coming out of these guys mouths, about bear encounters. Many of these folk are out of balance in their thinking about wild life . Many of these so called experts are putting people at a terrible disadvantage because so many of them have an anti gun bias, others are fanatics and do not value human life as something so far above a bear of any wildlife for that matter. Common sense tells us that an unarmed human is at an enormous disadvantage when facing any predator. A human is just another food item, if the opportunity presents itself, because predators are always opportunistic. Human life is of such great value that any endeavor into territory where there is a potential encounter with a predator the human should be armed amd able to protect themselves.

The author needs to make a distinction between black and grizzly bears.

The author is absolutely correct that Palin's advice on, well, anything is suspect at best and disastrously counterproductive most of the time. Sarah Palin is a fake; her televised caribou hunting fiasco, in which the guide later confessed that she botched eight shots and he finally had to put the poor reindeer down for her, is a conclusive evidence of the real depth her alleged wilderness knowledge and skills. The woman needs to be where she truly belongs, tending bar and serving pie at a brothel. With that said, I hope her advice continues to be widely publicized, so that the public will continue to get ever more sick and tired of her and the neoNazi GOP publicity machine that tried to foist this slimy idiot onto the national scene. Hell, as my own very accomplished daughter, a noted scientist in her own right, so dryly commented, Sarah Palin can't even raise moral kids.

Sarah Palin is an expert all right. (the definition of EXSPURT is a drip under pressure) Most people know so little about bears that they believe what they hear about them. From hours of personal observation over years of guiding, (see my book Lonesome for Bears),
I can tell you that it is not easy to get a bear to charge you, contact with you and hurt you. Bears of all kinds do not read the scary books about themselves and most of the time they would much prefer NOT to have an encounter with a human that turns stressful. That said, bears do have tantrums and humans can cause them by being unobservant, moving too fast, and not understanding bear body language, or not even looking for it in the first place. Education about bears is really lacking because a lot of what is out there is simply not true. Pepper spray may not be perfect but it is the best thing for people who are experienced because neither the bear or human gets killed using it. Pepper spray has worked for me in the very few times I have needed it in hundreds of encounters with both brown and black bears. And, I only needed it before I learned much about bears.

The one thing I know is that this study that the author is talking about holds little water if it was done by the wolf loving biologist we see on the landscape these days...... I could see the wording "bear spray...if done right "is the key. I could see the bias study expert leaving out instances where the human sprayed in the wrong direction or did not spray it the right way!

I'm sorry, but I've hunted in Griz country & my 270 is all I'm packing!

Thank you, uh, reality, for reinforcing my case. But, I quickly recognized you as the type who would have trouble aiming your spray; so, I already guessed you'd be in the Palin camp.

Just more crap about putting words in ol Sarahs mouth. That right, ERIN. She stated it was not smart to go out in Alaskas woods and be unarmed. Thats all she said.

Bear Spray may be relatively new to Alaskans, and I am sure they will use it when we have a few more proven cases that it will stop a charging grizzley at 10 yards. I wanna talk or hear from someone who has had this experiece. Personally, after watching a few y-tube videos of dumb people spraying each other, I think that if a bear got a face full of pepper spray, the bear would forget whatever he was doing and high tail it out. You cannot breath, eyes water terribly, and the pain is intense.

I do agree that bear spray will probably be better than a gun on a bear. That does not mean that carrying a gun is a bad idea in some instances.

Just more antiSara crap. The one politician who states we can have jobs and wilderness and does not beat around the bush about it.

Are you, ERIN, any chance from Missoula?

Lets just see, Mikey if you have the cojones to stand your ground and operate your bear spray canaster while that griz is bearing down on you.....

If you don't know how to use a gun, then bring bear spray - especially with kids around..it was painfully obvious neither Palin or Gosselin could handle the former.

Big Sky,
Sara Palin is a first class idiot...nobody needs to put words in her mouth, the ones that come out make it obvious...there are many other competent conservatives on the political scene.

Really? Who? Al Gore is not gonna make it bud.....

Sara stands for reality, the rest are just trying to straddle the fence never getting anything done

When you start calling people idiots bull, maybe look in the mirror first......

Yes, big sky, I have stood my ground and sprayed grizzlies before, twice; both were properly reported occurrences, although I can't see what your point is or what it has to do with anything. In fact as Linda Hunter implied, after I just stood there with the can in my hand on a third occasion, I now wonder whether actually using the spray in the first two episodes was even necessary.

..and, yes, I also know how to carry/use a gun, but carry/use spray instead because it's the honorable thing to do.

I'm hoping Sara does run for president. I've never help with a campaign, but there is always a first! A little Sara will go a long way countering the disnifying of the American public that is so evident in blogs like these!

If Sarah " Snooki" Palin has (Un)Reality's endorsement and assistance, I feel confident her chances of actually getting elected to anything greater than Mayor of mighty Wasilla ever again are slim to none.

Like minds, and all that .

I'm still trying to figure out what ' disnify' means in this context ? Is that like " reFudiate" , or something ?

Have we misunderestimated her as being the nukular option ?

If (Un)Reality is somehow trying to allude that the American public is " DisnEyfied " these days, I can think of no public figure who more resembles a cartoon caricature than Sarah Louise Palin.

When I was in Fairbanks Alaska I was advised that to stop a bear with a bullet is extremely risky. You are more likely to injure the bear and surprise surprise make it rather angry with you.
I was told by Park Rangers that to make plenty of noise when you walk ie have small bells attached to your jacket and ten to one they will keep out of your way.
I do believe that the Park Rangers have more experience in these matters than Sarah Palin.
My personal belief is if someone is inexperienced in these matters and is carrying a gun (or guns) this will lead to a false sense of security which may embolden the wearer to be less respectful of wild creatures.
I believe guns have their uses such as holding up the local liquor store, but that is about it.

Dewey dewey dewey..... you made my day. Thought I could get a comment out of you! :o) "Snooki" "louise" :o) I'm sure you and your "social circle" buddy Doug Honnold will come up with the perfect candidate for 2012!

By the way, you must still working on the cost question posed to you on multiple blogs. “As a percentage of the confirmed depredation costs what are the non-confirmed depredation costs and depredation management costs of wolves?”

Dewey, You’re going to help me make "disnified" a common part of the English language if you keep trying to correct it! Thanks once more!

Dave Butcher, I don't think there are two may people that think a gun is better than pepper spray in the Grizzly / human confrontation. I carried it (pepper spray) on my Montana Bow hunts this year. But, would it not have been better if someone in camp pulled out a 45 and took care of business when mama grizzly was raising hell & had Deb Freele’s arm in his mouth near Yellowstone last July. Pepper spray also works on Canis lupus familiaris, my wife and I found that out on a rural bike ride a few years ago!

(Un)Reality--- I've got enough wild sense to know a loaded bear trap when I see one sitting on the trail with Snickers bars on the trip plate.

Your 'depredation cost" question is both baited and pointless . I can't take you down any more notches 'cuz yer already below ground level. You dragged us down to your level, then kept digging like a badger. I won't go there. When yer down in a hole like that , the best advice is ' quit shovelling'. I prefer the long view from above ground, thank you very much.

Sorry . I won't oblige ---not because I can't , but because it would not serve any useful purpose and certainly won't enlighten you or change your ossified mind. I could never give you any answer that would satisfy you , so if you don;t mind, I won't take your silly disnifying bait.

Please run for president Sara. please, please, please.
Maybe bring Dan Quayle back for a second try at VP as he never said it better,
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."

Dewey, "drag US down" what’s that you and "the real Mike" or do you have a mouse in your pocket!

Don't mind being called a Badger, being that I'm from Wisconsin & hoping UW beats Texas Christian on Saturday in the Rose bowl!

You’re just full of good stuff today! I would not have expected anything else from you but bowing out of the "Cost" of wolves topic. I'm reminded of your (more elk for you and more elk for my wolves) comment from past blogs! You don't want to get into the cost of wolves because you’re selfish and don't want to bring to light that for every Confirmed Depredation dollar there always are corresponding non-confirmed depredation and depredation management costs that the rancher and taxpayer will swallow! You and the Center for biodiversity selfishly care less about what those numbers will be when we add another 10,000 wolves around the country!

...how's that hole digging going in this frozen ground today ?

give it a rest

Twice Mikey? Ok......I just never heard (either on the net or in person) actually using the stuff on a griz. I have been looking, for sure.....
Gee, if you indeed have sprayed griz twice I guess I have to give you more credit for getting out and about....tip my hat to you....
I cannot agree more that bear spray is probably better than a gun. Few could aim a kill shot anyway, and I do know of one hiker in yellowstone that sprayed a bear chewing on his leg....the bear left.
Reality, we are sending snow your way (if it gets that far) and a bit of cold....its -3 here today.

MS Palin is certainly the voice of American Teabaggers...

big sky, The wife, girls and I are spending the weekend up north at the cabin....may come home early if I get the doe I'm after - last weekend of the whitetail hunt in Wisconsin for humans. That snow will come in handy for the wife's cross country skiing she wants to do......she carries by the way! (pepper spray). The snow will come in handy for the wolves, the MI DNR wolf biologist says that when deer yard up because of high snow they are more vulnerable to wolves. He says they go from 30 deer per year to 50 deer per year if they have the right conditions! Old dewey is happy too .... if we get more snow.... it's easier to dig in!

Have a happy new year everyone! Go UW Badgers!

Dewey-

I don't think palin would evern be elected in wasilla again

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../sarah-palin-popularity-poll_n_801907.html

Yes it appears Alaskans are quite icy on palin, and are quite upset at the way she misrepresents Alaska and Alaskans.

Alakans laugh at clowns in the lower 48 like reality22 who worship palin.

JR---totally agree.

Tina Fey needs job security, however, so we need to keep Sarah " Snooki " Palin in the Fox News circus tent. But she really needs to keep doing her "Sarah Palin's Sarcaska" reality show. Especially when she can haul in the hot top Hollywood celebs like Kate Gosselin . Maybe that Octomom lady can be guest slotted into Wasilla for some heavy duty protein smashing from Grandma Grizzly to help feed her 14 kids...

America needs Sarah Palin , like we needed Ralph Kramden , and Lucy with her own First Dude, Desi Arnez.

Comic relief can never be overvalued. ( I have a feeling we'll be needing plenty in the coming New Year. Have a happy one ! )

-14 this morn. (early). I am suppose to drive daughter back to college in Minnesota this morning but I am thinking she will take the train. Roads closed in eastern North Dakota. Reality, that sure sounds like fun with the family. Good luck with the hunt to boot and have a Merry New Year. I did catch some fish the other day icefishing and have been steadily calling coyotes but no luck. I get them to come in to 400-500 yds but they are shaky about busting in.

SARA FOR PRESIDENT! (thumb nose at Jr and Dewey....) Ha Ha

Biologists with the Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team in Bozeman, Montana don't rely on bear spray when trappping bears--they use 12 gauge shotguns with slugs.

http://www.examiner.com/bear-spray-in-national/hunters-should-take-lessons-from-bear-researchers

If bear spray truly provides better protection than a firearm, wouldn't biologists who work every day in grizzly country use bear spray?

If an Outsider like Ms. Edge wants to convince Sarah Palin and other Alaskans to use bear spray, perhaps the place to begin is by getting Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team biologists to use bear spray instead of firearms.

I enjoy when the anti sarah people get together. It's laughable.

Sarah is incompetent with a gun? She got off two shots with a pump action shotgun in less than three seconds and managed to hit the kill zone. That's called being effective. By the way, the instructor did talk about other non lethal options. The lethal option only came in play when you have a bear running at you.

And bear spray? I looked up basic stats of brown and grizzly bears. So you're telling me that bear spray is an effective option against a 1,0000 lb animal that can reach a top speed of 35mph when it's charging at you? Man, common sense really is in short supply. Palin's right, if you go camping in bear country- grab yer gun.

So I'm guessing you're willing to head up to Alaskan bear country (Not Montana) for a week armed only with bear spray, right?

Rolffm bear researches described are dealing with bears on drugs and some serious ones at that. In no way should anyone take their actions as good advice about bears as no one else traps, darts with unwieldy drugs, manhandles, and then wakes up a still groggy completely disoriented bear who now has pains all over from various small operations and is mad and unfocused.

I have never ever put down Sarah " Snooki" Palin for her gun handling skills. Which orifice did you pull THAT out of ? Other have said uncomplimentary things about her gun skills, just not here. But I have to draw the line with Sarah Palin and the right to bear arms: it does not include having nuclear weapons at the fore.

Sarah does have some redeeming qualities. She's been a boon to the fashion eyeware industry , for instance. You can't refudiate that.

Nobody is a buffoon 100 percent of the time. Hitler was a decent artist in his youth , and they tell me Stalin was in the seminary as a child. It's just that I am having a devil of a time trying to think of an instance or pattern of actions that shows Sarah Louise has any political competence to put on her resumé , let alone a proven track record.

The mammoth state of Alaska has fewer people than Dennis Kucinich's congressional district in Ohio , and Sarah ABORTED her governorship in the second trimester because she couldn't handle the load.

Sarah is bad news for America , and even worse news for the Republican Party, and they are finally starting to say that openly among themselves. She's unelectable, period.

Which is precisely why we need her to stick around ! We need Snooki to continue to hog the cameras, spew her Wasilla hillbilly wisdom on Faux Noise, and keep making ridiculous speeches on the mashed potato circuit to replenish the groaner sound bite pool. Sarah is a godsend to the Democratic Party.

Of course she's good with a gun ...she keeps hitting her own feet with shot after shot after shot. Now THAT's gun control ...

this is a perfect example of two power hungry, attention hungry, paparazzi fodder, thinking they are American icons, former beauty queens, acting as if they know what they are doing and spreading their inadequecies to the public. and the public laps it up. welcome to the world of info tech as the truth.

I foresee more gun legislation/restriction brought on by inappropriate use of of guns v. bears by people who are not responsible in their use of guns. Nothing wrong with hunting. Nothing wrong with self-defense. But, the ability to buy a gun does not convey the wisdom to use it properly. Palin advocates gun use by all who hit the woods. What percentage of the people tramping around in the hills do you suppose has actual weapons training?

LMAO @ xax

what a dullard post.

I wll gladly go to AK bear country with only bear spray, wanna buy my ticket!

Sara is not proficient with a gun that has been proven.

She wants the world to think she's an outdoorsy person, but she's not.

She tries to put forth the sterotype that only right wingers camp/hunt/fish/explore the outdoors.

Her show is bigoted "reality" TV and you lap it up like the sheep you are.

FYI Alaskans see $ara for the joke/fraud she is, and they laugh at clowns like you in the lower 48 who worship he HA!

I hope Palin runs, too. It will be fun to see the Quitter and her minions flame out. I've already started making popcorn for the big show.

Yep, I have a hunch she'd show you a big one for some popcorn.

It's understandable why her popularity is so low in Alaska, but what the heck is wrong with the people of Montana? I thought my home state was smarter than that? Ugh!

BTW

xax

u think a gun is gonna be effective against a 1,000 lb animals runing at 35 mph.

Your right common sense is in short supply here.

So how about that AK ticket xax?

Perhaps the so called expert who penned this column will explain why they failed to acknowledge the firearm training the women went through specifically about bears?

The bear expert said the first shot should be just a noise maker. The second a bean bag. This expert said that such non lethal measures were highly effective. Now, if this is how the women were trained, how is this not good advice to share with an audience in protecting themselves and the bears?

I hope Palin gets run over by a car. She is a waste of space.

I see I didn't miss much over the weekend. JR, you sound like a Dewey wanabe! If you add a little whole state statistics and a pinch of disnified selfishness to your oratory you’d sound just like’m. No worship here on Palin.... but if she's running against Obama she has my vote & and maybe some help in the campaign. One thing I’m sure of is she would clean house at the USFWS of all the Jamie Clark trash that’s been added in the last few decades. It depends on who is running for me, but I don’t see much for an Obama replacement on the horizon.

Wisconsin sent Congressman Steve Kagen packing last election because he liked to spend above his means. I did not vote for Kagen even though he was co-sponsoring the HR6028 wolf bill. It looks like his replacement Reid Ribble may be just as good in regards to the wolf anecdote.

Bahahhahahaa vote for palin reality you right wing nut

obama sucks but palin BHahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've hunted in areas with black bears,with US/Canada grizzlies,and the Kodiak brown bears in Alaska.
I've never once had to shoot at a bear,I have fired warning shots-over the heads of the bears,or into the ground in front of them.
I'll take a 30-06,.308,300 Win. mag,or a .338,even a 12 gauge with rifled slugs with me every time in "bear country". I do carry bear spray,and would rather use it than shoot a bear who is just being a bear,but to only have bear spray is just not all that safe in my opinion,and 40 plus years of hunting/backcountry experience.
Untrained and/or unskilled idiots running around with pump shotguns isn't all that great of an idea either,like the guy said on Sarah Palin's show-use the non-lethal methods first,if they don't work,shoot the bear-repeatedly.

"More often than not,taking a shot at a bear will only provoke it"

No, taking a shot at a bear will usually end up with a dead bear,unless the person doing the shooting misses,which is why you carry a bolt-action rifle,or a pump shotgun with you when you're going to be around bears,that's just common sense.
That 8-10 second can of bear spray is not going to do sh*t if the wind is blowing,and blowing the wrong way.

Mrs. Palin's Remington 870 is a fine weapon for self defense in the bush; the lady never advocated wanton killing of bears; and most of the comments on this site are clearly from people who didn't watch the TV episode in question.

...not watching the episode is not the prerequisite for hearing what she had to say.

Besides, reality TV shows ...aren't.

Personally , I preferred a .41 mag long barrel ... Ruger Blackhawk if you force me to espouse a brand and model, but I quit carrying both gun and bear spray years ago. All my encounters with griz in northwest Wyoming have been positive. I shoot with a Nikon . Always have. Nobody dies.

Michio Hoshino, Charles Gibbs, William Tesinsky and now Dewey (we can only wish)! A good place to take pictures Dewey, is below Cut off Mountain up above the Silver Tip Ranch north of the park. We ran a bear off the gut pile of the 5 x 6 bull I got proudly mounted and displayed in the inside gable of my cabin. JR, head out with your idol Dewey & bring an extra roll of kodachrome along......just ignore the horses & pack mules when they get spooky! You may want to wait until Palin is in the Whitehouse, for Palin can get that permit to land a helicopter in the non-motorized area to haul out your carcass's.

Failure to watch Palin's programs speaks well for selectivity.

CBC article Spray more effective than guns against bears

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/03/26/bearspray.html#ixzz1A5RlF3Vr

FREDTERP

Great find of the spray vs. gun research , Fred. The first two paragraphs say it all :

"Despite persistent doubts among hikers and campers venturing into bear country, you're better off with an eight-ounce can of bear spray than a gun, according to an analysis of 20 years of data.

Canadian and U.S. researchers announced Wednesday that they found the spray stopped aggressive bear behaviour in 92 per cent of the cases, whether that behaviour was an attack or merely rummaging for food. Guns were effective about 67 per cent of the time. "

Maybe we can get Sarah to plug pepper spray on her next show , when she has that great conservative outdsoors woman Rachel Ray as a guest and works in a little cooking segment.. Salmon Caliente perhaps, a nice King salmon filet broiled with red pepper honey glaze with lime and garlic, or maybe some Alaskan ceviche.

I'm still working on the concept of a paintball gun that fires little globules of exploding Tabasco sauce. A hybrid bear defense tool keeps the gun nuts happy and secures their fragile egos by letting them pack " heat" .
*
..still trying to decode (Un)Reality's last comment here, but since I promised not to feed the trolls this year forward, I won't comment on the inanity of it or write anything that encourages him to troll a little more...

"In the 71 incidents documented in the study, users reported minor irritation 10 times and near incapacitation twice. There were no reports of the spray malfunctioning."

Near incapacitation two out of 71 times is still a high enough percentage of failure to stop the bear that I'm still taking a firearm with me.

This entire article,and quite a few of the comments are not based in truth at all-the guy instructing caribou Barbie and Kate said use non-lethal methods first,no one is calling for random shooting of bears.
As I said in a prior post,as a lifelong hunter,I've never shot a bear-(other than a black bear when I was young,and I didn't like the meat,so I never hunted bear again)-just the noise usually scares the bear away,and I'm not rich,so I'll spend a buck fifty on a rifle round before I use the $35.00-$40.00 can of spray.

The other problem is why the fixation on Sarah Palin?
She shot about six times at the little caribou she got,and watching the show out of boredom,I'm not even sure she shot it,it didn't show the last shot all that clearly, I think her father,or the other guy shot it.

Dewey, I'll help you try to "decode" my last post.... Michio Hoshino, Charles Gibbs, and William Tesinsky are all wildlife photographers killed by bears. Since you prefer no spray or gun .... I've listed a good place infested with bears for you to take your Nikon! I don't mind holding your hand and walking you through my posts....just ask! You're a pretty mocho guy venturing out without gun or spray. I'm not as mocho .... I prefer pepper spray when bow hunting or hiking & gun when gun hunting.

Fredterp, Interesting article ... this was one of the comments for that article "This is the CBC and Dewey being controversial to generate interest in the story. The actual article /study does not state anything about the effectiveness of guns. It's all about the effectiveness of bear spray. Read for yourself: http://www.wildlifejournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.2193/2006-452&ct=1" (per comment)

Mountain hunter, your correct about the fixation on Palin.... more so, by the ones that would not vote for her then the ones that would!

Thanks Fred, for the post.

(Un)Reality ... so what ? I've had north of 200 close encounters with grizzlies in Yellowstone and especially the backcountry of the Absarokas. Including having two yearlings stand up on the trail directly in front of me when I was packing out four horses full of elk quarters and capes. Bears nose's inside the tent. Bears just outside the tent while I was sleeping. Bears in the middle of picketed stock. A black bear that climbed up and got my food cache causing me to cut short a 20 day backpacking trip. Two boars fighting less than 150 ards from my camp in the middle of the night when I was solo prospecting , staking molybdenum claims. Outfitters I worked for insisted I carry a gun on the trail for their benefit, their insurance and I did, but likely never would've used it . I did shoot a badass Camp Robber with a .45 cap and ball once, inside Yellowstone, from an Upper Lamar horse camp, and while I missed the bird by six inches from 40 yards it spooked hell out of the horses and came to no good. In fact , I hired out for two years as " bear bait" on the South Fork of the Shoshone wilderness between from Aug 1 when camp went in ( they also had summer trips ) till Sept 1 gun season because the ugly bootleg outfitter over in the next meadow that the Forest Service wouldnt prosecute because he was a preacher and took kids in left such a dirty filthy camp full of rotting food that we had his spillover bear problems, constantly. Griz and black both . I was issued a .357 S & W and never once pulled the hammer or took it off safety. But I did use my wrist rocket on a black bear, and I have a very good throwing arm.

I've found a great deterrent to frequentative bears is simply to strategically piss along the perimeter of camp. The next morning the trees will be scratched but they won't cross the "line". Of course when the griz comes into camp on ballerina slippers, walks between the tent you and your wrangler are sleeping in and the dining tent, and lets a 25 pound roped ham down from the tree branch , and the two dogs don't even wake up or bark and the horses don't whinny , what can you do ? ( Dike Creek off Howell Fork of Mountain Creek , Sept 75).

Grizzlies are smart. I respect them for that . They generally do not want trouble. Guns make trouble.

Michio Hoshino was killed in Kamchatka. Not my problem . Different bears, long used to doing mortal combat with stupid Russians. Bred to fight like dogs you might say. Gibbs had a loaded .45 with him at the time he was killed. He didn't use it. Hard to make any kind of case from that . Hard to say what happened with Tesinsky, but that bear was exterminated with prejudice. A Montana FWP ranger had a mix-up with a Grizz near Hungry Horse in 2001 when he was trying to release it from a culvert trap .It took all 6 shots from his service .357 to drop the bear. What if it had needed 7 instead ? The guy was ready for bear, trained, and quick on the draw, and his point blank gun almost was not enough . Conclusions ?

By the way , you left out the best "Bear Eats Photographer" story of all... Timothy Treadwell. Who probably deserved it for his many stupidities, but his hot girlfriend Aimee did not, unfortunately . There is no cure for Stupid.

All of my encounters with bears across 38 years have ranged from mildly annoying to positive to fabulous. No guns or spray were used , or needed.

Thanks for your input, but I will stay with my own wide long personal experience here. I'm genuinely sorry that you and so many others feel less insecure of a man if you don't have a gun strapped on , and feel it's absolutely necessary to pack heat in bear country. Lots of things can hurt or kill you , but there's something about Mountain Machismo that says " Man must shoot Bears"

There's no cure for Stupid. But respect and savvy go a long ways.

I'm also the only guy you've ever corresponded with who's been up close and personal with Komodo Dragons in the wild in Indonesia, even to the point of hand feeding the one that lived by the Sea Gypsy boat landing. As much as I love my many Wyoming grizzly bear photos , I am totally proud of my Komodo dragon portraits...jet black eyes, red mouth , rows of teeth , a 2-foot yellow tongue, and claws that make a grizzly's look like a salon manicure job.

But those are for some other blogsite's worthless discussion.

G-day.

Dewey: Thank you for telling us a bit about your experiences. Very informative. It's great to hear the distilled wisdom of years of experience versus the desperate justification for packing guns. Nothing against guns, just don't like the thought of unskilled people blasting away on the trails.

Dewey, Interesting post...... you still get an "D-" for your posting on the grounds that your post on this site are dripping with prejudice not only for Mrs Palin but also for guns.

I’ve only had two encounters with bears both up in Slough Creek north of Yellowstone. One was a bear we chased off a gut pile when we came back for my quartered elk. We thought it was a brown phase black bear from what we saw of it heading down through the timber, but the tracks we saw by the gut pile after we had the quarters loaded said different. The other, was more of a close encounter for my brother and cousin…. (My other brother and I were less than a hundred yards away). .. They had the sow & cubs surprise them as they were making a climb on the south side of the ridge. Cubs off to the right and mom came over the ridge from the left. No shots were fired but both were shaken and had to put on new underwear on back at camp. They said the sow had come from our direction & left in our direction, but we did not see it.

I have absolutely nothing against guns whatsoever. It's hard to get mad at a tool , an appliance, or a widget, or form a personal relatinship about an inanimate object. .

I do judge the person carrying it on an individual basis.
*
Don't get me going on Sarah " Snooki " Palin , though... back when Wyoming became the Equality State and actually meant it, my grandmother was one of the first woman judges anywhere , was active in politics and civic affairs, started the local American Legion Ladies Auxilliary , went from dirt poor Depression era widow farming out the 6 kids to ranch families to being a respected businesswoman who owned a lot of properties and built a lot of houses. She was a very conservative woman who was an excellent example to all, Sarah P wouldn't be a pimple on her derriere. I know what strong capable conservative women are suposed to be emulate. I see none of it in Sarah Louise "Bimbo" Palin whatsoever. You'all are being utterly fooled.

- by way of reminder , the premise of this article that Palin's televised on the record advice about guns and bears being 'reckless' , is quite defensible. QED.

Dewey, precisely what advice in Palin's own words that you object to?

I found this article and it's title to be highly unfair and slanted to ignore the firearm and bear training that the women attended. Is being educated, trained, and prepared to protect one's family sleeping in their tents objectionable?

I have watched the episode a couple of times. Nowhere is there a suggestion to "gun down a bear" indicated. Nowhere will you see a firearm close at hand when they are in camp. It's a bit underhanded for the article author and others to step over the facts to put forth this personal attack for political reasons. Hate Palin all you want, but be honest about the facts which include using a blank round, first, followed by a beanbag round before lethal rounds from the shotgun. The bear expert in the segment clearly indicated that the nonlethal measures were highly effective. What part of that do you object to?

BTW, the quoted "fact sheet" in this article is NOT the effort of a study. Dig a little and you will find much ad hoc opinion based on comparing apples and oranges. Pepper spraying bears away from garbage cans is not even close to dealing with an aggressive bear who means business. This is much misinformation and conjecture here that will put people in peril. I hope the author accepts the responsibility for such nonsense.

Oh heck, Craig---she's so easy to REFUDIATE. I don't have the time nor does NewWest have the space , and it's off topic anyway. Pretty much every time and place she opens her mouth publicly , a shoe or boot falls out.

Google for " Palinisms" and read till it becomes un-BEAR-able.

Dewey, if such effort is as easy as you say, why has there been such an effort by the author and similar Palin haters commenting here to misrepresent the episode to manufacture a straw man to knock down? Again I ask, what part of the bear and firearm education, training, and preparation demonstrated in the episode is objectionable?

I'm not the issue, but Sarah Palin might be. How we reward incompetence these days... I have little to say towards anyone elected to the highest office in her state by the trust and desires of her resident , who QUITS then goes on a publicity tour. For starters. When a real bear-gun-spray expert shows up to enlighten us all, I'll tune in.

I do know Marc Bruscino here in Cody , the Wyoming Game and Fish bear wrangler who trapped and/or reloacted 75 grizzlies this year. He advises to carry both gun and spray , and be well rehearsed in using both , and be bear aware. Can anyone give betetr advice than that ?

I checked out of this thread. It's going nowhere, reached its shelf life. Time to gather up the spent brass and reload for the next target of opportunity. Pass the Tabasco....

Dewey, I agree with Bruscino on his advice. Don't forget to suck on a jalapeno before taking the Tabasco.

;)

Craig Moore, All we can expect from old Dewey is his normal vilification of Mrs. Palin.... that’s Dewey. I tried to get him to discuss the "cost of wolves" much the same as you did with your question, to no avail. He has all the answers and if you disagree with him, he will try to smear you also. Thanks for setting him straight! He defines his prejudices very clearly in his writing on this blog. Guns and Palin top the list!

No, guns and Palin are not at the top of my Disgust List.

That would be Forum Comment Trolls....

US Geological Survey Releases Bear Safety Fact Sheet

"Some salient statistics showing that bear deterrent is better than a firearm: Those who defend themselves with firearms suffered serious injury in about 50 percent of encounters. Those who used bear deterrent suffered far fewer and less serious injuries and were subjected to shorter durations of attack than those who defended with firearms alone"

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/05/us-geological-survey-releases-bear-safety-fact-sheet/


Journal article
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3873165

The "salient statistics" if you actually read all the info in the links,was mainly bears in garbage,or around food-big difference between that and a pissed off grizz in the backcountry,even black bears can be aggressive.
How many of those injured when using firearms were not skilled marksmen or hunters? Doesn't give that information.
IF a bear is charging,pepper spray is not likely to do much until the bear is way too close-if a bear is charging me,I'm not waiting until it's 15 yards from me-I'm using a centerfire rifle that's .308 or larger caliber,and starting to shoot at about 35-40 yards. My .300 Wim mag gives me 5 rounds-4 in the magazine-one in the chamber-same with most rifles-one well placed shot is going to stop the bear,maybe two if it's really mad.

As long as you don't surprise a bear,you aren't likely to have to use spray,or a firearm,so don't surprise a bear, and you won't have a problem,in most cases.

MH---Maybe I can interest you in my new line of Paintball Pepper Sauce Bear guns, good out to 40-50 yards and very fun to shoot. Non-Lethal, fun for the whole family. Bears hate 'em , if and when you shoot straight and take a round. Be sure and order the tracer rounds , with the bright Day-Glo impact splotches

Complemented by my new aerosol Pepper Sauce hand grenades. The fun only increases.

Finally a real hand grenade. Not for the bear charging, but to use on yourself. Fall all over it.

THAT is how ludicrous this Guns vs. Spray debate appears to me. The choice of caliber and handgun model does not matter one whit. It's not about the hardware, it's all about the software...your brain , reflexes, and especially attitude.

I fear gun nuts far more than I fear bears. YMMV

*

Dang. I haven't even picked up my spent brass to reload from the verbal shoot out at this NewWest forum , and there's already a riot and fusillades over at the Norm Bishop piece " What are wolves worth ? ".

Dewey

If you actually read my posts,I said I have never,in over 40 years of hunting in "bear country" had to shoot a bear-I do carry bear spray,but like I said,I am not rich, so I'll shoot a few rounds at about $1.50 each before I use the $35.00-40.00 can of pepper spray. Just the noise usually scares a bear away.
IF you did have to shoot a bear-caliber DOES matter.

So because someone is a hunter,that makes tham a gun nut?


Not everyone is as anti-gun,anti-hunting as you are.

The wolf stories have all been argued in the past on this site.
There's nothing new to add,other than the extreme enviros shot themselves in the foot this time,and will end up causing major changes to the ESA.

Dewey, booo!!!!!

Fear of gun nuts? Nothing to fear from responsible gun owners. By the way, there is this: http://www.examiner.com/bear-spray-in-national/bear-spray-or-bullets-sarah-palin-s-choice-irks-environmentalists Rather interesting that the biologists are packing heat.

Mountain hunter is right, just don't surprise a bear. Now apply that advice to gun owners.

Craig: The Examiner.com franchise is not really a credible online news source. It's done of, for, and by amateurs whose street cred is dubious. It's like a chain of those free shoppers or weird tabloids you see amid the corner racks in cities. They look like newspapers, smell and feel like newspaper, come out of a newspaper rack machine, and quack like a newspaper , but........it's a duck , not a newspaper of record

Just because you swaddle your child in newspaper doesn't make the kid a journalist....

----
By the way , I wish you and Mountain Hunter and everybody else here would read what I write, instead of firing your idiomatic blunderbusses straight back at what you hear in your head when you stare at my words and see my name attached to it.

I 'm not an anti-hunter nor do I generally think gun owners are sociopaths or psychopaths. I judge hunters and outfitters and gun owners on an individual basis. Remember, I live in and grew up in Cody ... a gun mecca and hunting/outfitting bazaar. I have a huge working database on gun owners and gun users and old west impersonators.

They all speak for themselves, and they reveal all. I carry MACE under the front seat of my Volvo.

Dewey, your conjecture is without merit. Follow the links that lead to the bear attack report and read it in their own words.

Dewey, leaving pressurized canisters in your vehicle of anything, especially mace, is a very poor idea. In the summer they have been known to explode. By the same token, in the winter when temps fall below freezing, the effective range of those spays falls significantly.

Dewey

I did read your posts

" I fear gun nuts more than I fear bears"

"Finally a real hand grenade. Not for the bear charging,but to use on yourself. Fall all over it"

From another post of yours "guns make trouble"

Your posts all seem anti-hunting,anti-gun.

Your perception of me and my posts is skewed.
No dignified response.
- and don't take it/make it personal , either.

Is there a problem with discussing the fact that employees with the Yellowstone-region "Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team" use firearms for self-defense, not bear spray?

Wolverine, shouldn't be if certain people were interested in facts rather than promoting an agenda.

Back in October of '09 here at NW there was another bear column: http://www.newwest.net/main/article/should_hunter_who_killed_grizzly_bear_be_prosecuted/

To quote from it: "When should you shoot? It’s a real dilemma. The grizzly Mr. Westmoreland shot might have whirled and fled, or it might have charged, which makes it far more difficult to hit and kill. Plus, the bear might stop 30 yards away, 15 yards away, 2 yards away, or anywhere in between. In Bear Attacks: Their Causes And Avoidance, biologist Stephen Herrero says to shoot at a charging grizzly at 100 to 50 feet or less. In the Bear Encounter Survival Guide, British Columbia hunting guide James Gary Shelton recommends shooting at 25 yards. In Backcountry Bear Basics, I recommend shooting when the charging bear is 5 to 7 yards away. Whether you shoot at 33 yards or 5 yards, you’re only gonna have time for one shot if you’re using a bolt-action rifle—hold off as long as you can, and then make your one shot count. You should decide at what distance you’ll shoot before you ever go afield. "

Notice the reference to Herrero about when to shoot.

Climb a tree. Watch the bear watching you for awhile. Take careful aim and then shoot.

Dewey

I don't take the posts on this forum personal,or make them personal,with the exception of when "Hunters are cowards" made a series of "personal attacks" directed at me.

The best choice when around bears is to carry spray and a firearm.
As I said the best way to avoid problems is to not surprise a bear.

Maybe my perception of you is skewed due to the way a lot of your posts read,however, I see you did mention you are for managed wolf hunts,and you did say you are not anti-hunting,anti-gun. Notice I did say "seem to be" concerning your posts.

You said that you wished myself and others would read your posts-same here-too many people just answer without reading entire posts,I've done,and you've done it.

No matter,like I said-this entire discussion is based on inaccurate information by the author-when Sarah Palin went to the bear training guy he said first, try non-lethal methods-first round is for noise,second is a beanbag,third is live ammo.

I'm sure we will see a future article about the gold rush show-they actually shot a bear. (leagally)

legally

Give Palin her shotgun and put her in the same situation as people who used bear spray, and I betcha she'd have a 100% success rate. Remember: bear spray has a maximum range of about 35 feet. Palin would be shooting bears less than 35 feet away with a 12 gauge shotgun. Here are some quotes from the Smith/Herrero study on Efficacy of bear deterrent spray in Alaska.

"In 62% (31 of 50) brown bear incidents bears were either acting curious or searching for food or garbage before being sprayed. Of these bears, 13% (3 of 31) were acting aggressively with respect to obtaining food; 87% (27 of 31) were not acting aggressively."

In 68% (13 of 19) of black bear incidents, bear were either acting curious or were searching for food or garbage. Of these bears, none acted aggressively toward people while in pursuit of human foods."

"In both polar bear incidents, subadult bears approached humans in a pickup truck there to observe bears feeding on bowhead whale remains. In both instances (100%), bear spray stopped the bear's approach and turned the bear away."

No wonder bear spray has such a high success rate.

Palin could'nt even hit a caribou broadside from close range.

The guide had to bail her out after she missed 8 shots!

She's not a hunter, not an outdoorsperson, she's a CON.

She wants to portray this image that only the right wing gun nuts know the outdoors.

She is a prjdudice bigot who preachers her views in her "reality show"

She's taking you for a ride, Alaskans HATE sarah palin and how she tries to rep their state.

Notice how all the subsistence hunters in the bush communities voted for Murkowski not palin's joe miller.

$arah is a bigoted fool and the world laughs at her.

Even funnier is clowns in the lower 48 who thinks shes cool or a presidential candidate Bahahha!

Alaskans laugh at right wing nutters in the lower 48 who follow this fool $arah off the cliff!

Reality 22 said

"wait until palin is in the white house"

the definition of a delusional right wing nutter.

The funniest thing about you right wing nutter bigots who worship palin and her "reality show", is that you STILL fail to recognize that sarah palin cost Mcain the election!

Sarah Palin is the reason John Mcain lost to Obama, this is an indesputable FACT!

palin is the absolute worst thing for the republican party and many republicans are finially relaizing this.

Only the truly nutty, bigoted right wing nutjobs think she will be president, is a hunter.outdoorsperson, is good for america etc.

palin is a reality tv star and you think she's fit to be presdient also, grow a brain right wing nutter bigots.

Gosh Harley, the only one that fits your "nutter bigot" label is YOU!

This discussion was about the total misrepresentation of the episode by the writer... not about presidential politics.

So far as the hunting episode, I take from your comment that you failed to watch it. She was using her father's rifle to make the shot. The scope was way off as was demonstrated by her father himself when he tried to shoot a paper plate. Palin made the kill shot with the family friend's rifle. There was no guide at their drop camp. Why was the rifle off? If you had watched you would have seen her father take a bad fall while carrying the rifle. They failed to check it afterward.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.

Harley

Right wing nutter bigots? as opposed to left wing nutter bigots?
Apparently you are in the latter category.
You obviously did not watch the show,she did not miss 8 times,she missed 6 times,and this was after her father had fallen with the rifle she was using. Later in the show-the rifle could not hit a paper plate-the scope was knocked off it's zero by the fall.

You also missed the point of the discussion-the author misrepresented the facts,nowhere during the course of the show did anyone reccomend "that anyone "gun down bears".

Sarah Palin is not the reason Mcain lost,Obama got a lot of the young voters to vote for him with his hope & change bullshit.

Whether or not Sarah Palin runs for president,or stays out of the race,she sure as hell has the left all bent out of shape.
No one is blindly following Palin,like all Nobama's blind followers who voted him in,and now wish they hadn't.
Palin is a reality tv star,and Obama still never was anything other than a community organizer,and his lack of political knowledge/skills shows every time he's in another country,bowing to their leaders,and apologizing for this country.

mountain hunter, Craig Moore, This left wing bigot Harley is not worth responding to..... She defined herself quite well in her Joanny come lately belligerent, incoherent, disrespectful posts. She wouldn't know a good presidential candidate if one hit him in the head...she can't even spell president. She made my day....glad I checked this thread.... don't mind watching dorks put there foot in their mouth! She's a real treat

PS Not sure if Harley is male or female....but she writes like a female.

Ha Ha....just watched both episodes (the one with the nutty kate and 9 and the caribau hunt). Loved em both....
Ol Kate reminds me of my wife, He He. Wifey watched it and suggested I see if Sarah has any single sisters....Ha Ha
The bear debate spews on and on....sprey, gun, who knows till you are in that situation.....
Apparently Alaskans use the gun method, if necessary. With the number of bears they have along the coast, I think people who get out up there pretty much know how to avoid bears. Mabye let the Alaskans take care of their own problems, something us right wingers apparently can't do in the west. We gotta have liberals tell us how we should live.....
Say what you will about Sarah. After all, she is a politician and they are fair game. She is use to it.
I like the fact that she is straight faced regardless. No riding the fence like Baucus, Obama, and now Tester (in Montana)
The liberals would hate it, but she would make a great president, or better than anyone else out there.
Sarah cost McCann the electrion? Naaaa, I voted for McCain because he had Sarah to carry the reins if he croaked....
Be funny to see ol harley (or whoever) get fired up if she runs....

"On eve of shooting, Giffords sought to 'tone our rhetoric and partisanship down."

Interesting news headline given comments by the palin haters here.

12-19 real mike:"I hope her advice [on guns for self-defense against bears] continues to widely publicized to the public will get ever more sick and tired of her and the Nazi GOP publicity machine that tried to foist this idiot on the national scene."

1-01 Dewey: "Hitler was a decent artist in his youth, Stalin was in the seminary as a child"

"her show is bigoted reality TV and you lap it up like the sheep you are."