Wilderness
Suit: Chopper Landings Violate the Law in the Frank Church
By Public News Service|Deb Courson, Guest Writer, 2-04-10
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A U.S. Forest Service plan to land helicopters in the Frank Church-River of No Return Wilderness doesn’t fly with conservation groups. Six have filed suit to stop the plan, saying landing helicopters would violate the law under wilderness designation. Idaho Fish and Game wants to use helicopters to capture and collar wolves.
John Robison, public lands director for the Idaho Conservation League, says landing helicopters in wilderness for such a project is not needed.
“We think that it’s possible to manage and monitor the wolves through ground-based methods. The Nez Perce Tribe managed to collar over 30 wolves using traditional methods.”
Fish and Game wants to use helicopters because it’s faster, and the agency says it will save money. But, allowing helicopter landings would set an unwanted precedent, says Robison, for more motorized access in an area that was to be left motor-free by agreement.
“We decided that the Frank Church was different. It’s the last of what once was. It’s very important to meet this wild country on its own terms.”
Joining the League’s lawsuit are The Wilderness Society, Sierra Club, Winter Wildlands Alliance, Great Old Broads for Wilderness, and Wilderness Watch.
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SEC. 202. ADMINISTRATION.
(h) MILITARYACTIVITIES.—
(2) HIGHLANDS WILDERNESS AREA.—Nothing in this title precludes or restricts the authority of the Secretary concerned to enter into agreements with the Secretary of Defense or the Montana National Guard to permit limited and scheduled landings of aircraft in the Highlands Wilderness Area.
The 30 wolves were leg trapped over a span of 14 years. That's not a very impressive number when you consider it's about two per year and you will lose a number of the tagged wolves to mortalities over time. I hardly think a capture rate of two collars annually will add much to a dataset where we can infer much about populations.
"Fish and Game wants to use helicopters because it’s faster, and the agency says it will save money. But, allowing helicopter landings would set an unwanted precedent."
There is no precedent to claim because for decades Fish and Game has been landing helicopters to collar and/or transplant goats and bighorn sheep. And elk collaring in the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness for that matter. Choppers are regularly flown back there to count salmon spawning redds.
I think the best argument against Fish and Game landing helicopters back there is they have yet to demonstrate how an additional five or ten collars on wolves in 2010 will add to the understanding of wolf populations. They never explain why they need this data.
med evacs are permited and always have been.
you just hate W
f and g are despicable for continually doing this with little/any results.
But it works both ways, as a few years ago their was a young boy lost for several days in the Pecos Wilderness near Santa Fe, NM and when they finally spotted him from the air the Forest Supervisor wouldn't allow a chopper to land and retrieve him. He spent almost two days more out in the wild before ground crews got to him.
The firefighters that were killed a few years ago, I believe in Idaho, because the Forest Supervisor there wouldn't let the choppers dip from a river that had an endangered fish, would have no doubt survived but due to the lunacy of designated restrictions because of wilderness and endangered species, a loss of lives will be ever present.
I think common sense has to apply but there seems to be a shortage of that in this day and age.
WTF kind of lies are you spewing. The firefighters killed in Idaho was due to the fct that they were dropped upslope of a raging fire that was headed their way. They were not killed becuase some supervisor refused to get water from the Salmon river thats just lies. The fire crews screwed up. As far as your pecos wilderness story I think that is also lies.
The fact that you and mickey mouse hate Wilderness does'nt give you the right to spread lies.
Mickey your a n absolute loon. The FCRONR is the best thing to ever happen to central Idaho. Just becuase down in sun valley you and the celebrities and politicinas hate it doesnt mean everyone else does.
Your an aging, hateful moron who will never hold office becuase of your immaturity and utter hatred of preservation.
But hey your a former fire dork they almost all hate wilderness.
Above all mickey and tom are LIARS!
Med evacs have always been permited alnog with air rescues.
Trying to blame the deaths of the firefighters in Idaho on wilderness designation is both despicable and dishonest.
You two are fucking pathetic LYING idiots.
An utter failure joke delivery man hack.
I guess the truth hurts. There were published reports that did speculate that on the Idaho fire that if they had been allowed to dip water at the get go the tragedy might have been avoided. Besides this was an Endangered Species event, not a wilderness issue.
The Pecos event is common knowledge in New Mexico.
I watch the Forest Service use helicopters and chainsaws in the wilderness just about every year.
Besides that I am a wilderness supporter, especially what we have now but don't think we need to make the whole public domain wilderness. I love and spend a major portion of my life in the wilderness.
I was just trying to infuse some of the actual (not lies) happenings for sometimes contradictory wilderness/endangered species helicopter use. Maybe we need an investigation into medi-vac helicopter use as we just had another tragedy last week at Chapparal, NM where all medic and pilots were killed and this is the third such even in New Mexico in just a few years
I guess I pulled the cinch a little tight on the burr under your saddle blanket Murphy.
the fact that your trying to blame the deaths of those firefighters on the ESA is deplorable.
That is below the belt absolute lies and propoganda from an obviuos right wing extremist.
When did I claim I wanted all public land as wilderness (another slanerizing tactic by RWCers)
Show some proof behind your ludicrous claims.
It was not an Idaho fire but was the Thirty Mile Fire near Winthrop, WA in July of 2001 and four firefighters lost their lives.
The helicopter delay of a water drop more than likely was a big factor in their deaths. Very near the Chewuch River was where the fire took place.
Refer to an article published in "Environment & Climate News by the Heartland Institute and the article is entitled "Forest Service Still Spinning the Thirty Mile Fire" by James M. Taylor. The link can be found by googling Thirty Mile Fire.
The delay was caused because of indecision on the Forest Service higher ups in charge and was due to The Endangered Species salmon and some other fish.
The Forest Service conveniently covered this fact up to cover their behinds but the Okanogan National Forest Supervisor wasn't fired, he was promoted to Regional Forester Region 3 of The SW US. That makes sense, or does it?
How about taking some responsibility and not blaming every single issue, problem on the "evil greens" and their restrictions.
Come on even the most hard core leftist wing nut would'nt object to a helicopter scooping some water out of the Salmon to save the lives of two firefighters. It's the continual myths you spread that conservation kills people (this is your real agenda here.) Similar to mickey's claim that roadless areas are responsible for marijuana being grown on public lands.
I have nothing against true conservationists and main stream environmentalism. Period.
If you just read the above article it should open your eyes on what really happened there. The delay of giving the helicopter permission to dip water was both a gov't boondoggle and a endangered species driven decision. The delay was several hours and by then a very small fire turned into a big fire. It very well could have saved four lives if the helicopter could have dosed the small fire, with water from the river with endangered fish in them. I am not trying to spread myths or any other conspiracy theory you conjure up. I am only relying on the purported facts of the incident and one can draw their own conclusions.
Radical greens need to step up to the plate and recognize and accept the consequences for their extreme positions.
Meanwhile the US Forest Service continues to use chainsaws and helicopters in our wilderness areas.
No, but they sure have taken advantage of it to promote their radical agenda.
The Center for Biological Diversity (CBC) in what they call, according to their web site, "strategic, creative litigation" have amassed $6,709,467 in attorney fees all paid by taxpayers. 13 environmental groups have collected total attorney fee payments of 30 million dollars plus extracting another four million from businesses all based upon payment from federal fee-shifting statutes.
This is big business and is enabling these groups to virtually tie governmental agencies up in knots. Between the Wild Earth Guardians and the CBD, they have filed a total of 431 new species for listing and there is absolutely no way the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service can make a "scientific" finding on all of these species within the 90 day time frame mandated by the ESA, which make federal district court litigation (and the payment of attorney fees) inevitable and profitable for these groups.
Much of the above has nothing to do with saving species but is the way these radical groups are changing the landscape into their utopia called the Wildlands Network.This a move to move all rural people into the cities and have all wilderness off limits to humans and the corridor areas in between to very limited human use. We used to think this was a really crazy idea but with their big war chests, much from the above money making scheme, is coming to fruition.
There you go again with the right wing crazy conspiracies, similar to the all conservationists want all public lands as wilderness BS.
If it ever comes to that it (which I doubt it ever will) it would unite all sides.
I hear a lot of this kind of talk from folks who think that hunting is banned in wilderness areas and that humans are not allowed also.
Although, they have taken a lot off their site so they appear to be more mainstream, go to Wildlands Network, formerly Wildlands Project and take a gander. Now even supposed conservative, conservation organizations such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have that buzz word in their vocabulary.
Wildlife corridors are now called Wildways and they say private land won't be affected but they are by various nefarious schemes trying to buy out the more critical private land holdings in the connecting corridors or now they call it Wildways. This has happened just up the road from my place. It is here, it is real and you will see much more of it in the days to come. As I said I thought it was crazy a few years ago, but they are making huge strides in this ambitious project.
Right Wing Crazy Conspiracies or reality? Check it out.
Helicopters? How did we get on conspiracy theories? I guess one thing leads to another! Keep up the fight for common sense managed wilderness areas, although there is not much management capability in wilderness areas, which is how it should be. Mother Nature rules anyway. The U.S. Forest Service tries to bend the rules from time to time, especially trying to manage their self created monster, fuel buildup and the resulting hot burning fires.
Right Wing Conspiracy Theories balance out Left Wing Utopian Dreams.
your completely Bonkers
Thanks for your vote of my mental state. I hope yours is better, but from reading some of your blogs it would be highly debatable.
its probally in their mission statement.
I dont have a blog klunker.
your bonkers
later nutter.